I recently started working for a new company whom own a range of different size vehicles so one day i could be in a 7.5ton on tacho and the next I could be in a 3.5ton without needing to use my card.
My question is this, do I need to do manual entries when I return to a larger vehicle after say driving a 3.5 for a week? or even one day? I spoke to some other drivers who basically said no just leave it but I don’t want to fall foul to any rules etc, my other issue is that I’m away on holiday for a week so do I again need to make a manual entry for this upon my return?
We do clock in and out separate to using our tacho cards and we are told once we clock in we have 5 minutes to get our lorry keys and insert our cards etc and the same when taking them out we must clock out within 5 minute’s.
I hope all that makes some sense, if anyone could assist id be grateful.
Im a bit of a stickler for this. I always do a manual entry of other work from the time the card was removed from the head to the time i clocked out then rest till the time i clocked in and then other work till the time the card went in,
In your case if you do a week of driving a van that doesnt come under the tacho regs then put it in as other work etc. However be carefull dont just put in other work for the whole day(s) you need to make sure you put in the apropriate breaks aswell as start and finish times. I susspect this might upset the company alittle as if you do more than a 13 hour day in a van it will use up one of your reduced rests and if they are swapping you betwen a van and lorry to get round the driving hours regs that will mess them up.
As to holiday it would be recorded on the tacho as rest. so when you come back to work and put your card in just do the manual entry as above ie other work then rest then otherwork but the rest would cover your holiday period rather than a single night
It’s not possible to do it correctly without doing a manual entry. You have to record the 5 minutes between getting keys and putting card in and the same for the end of the shift too.
If you drive a tachograph equipped vehicle even once a week or even a few hours a week then you need to account for you working week via manual entries.
Now doing several days of manual entries can be difficult to not make a mistake and give yourself infringements. It really depends on how much info you need enter.
If just driving a van then it’s fairly straight forward to do without messing it up.
If you have lots of entries to make about other work and breaks then id suggest keeping a diary of your working hours and breaks off tacho. This generally seems to be accepted by DVSA unless they think you are trying to falsify records by keeping a written diary for example. Can the entries be done on the tacho relatively easily without much chance of making mistakes? Do manual entries. If there is a high likeliness of mistake then written entries.
But with a caveat some companies insist on it being done as a manual entry on your card. Some companies will of you have a lot of manual entries to do will enter it on tachomaster or similar software for you. It won’t update your card but will be on the tachomaster days servers.
So it is swings and roundabouts.
The biggest issue with written entries if anyone can write anything they want, and if you get a check and DVSA think you might be trying to cover things up it could her messy.
The letter of the law says you should do a manual entry on your card for any weeks you drive in scope with a tacho.
Any week you don’t drive under scope then a written record is perfectly acceptable for that week.
Not a simple answer but it varies dependant on so many variables.
Conor:
It’s not possible to do it correctly without doing a manual entry. You have to record the 5 minutes between getting keys and putting card in and the same for the end of the shift too.
Ffs, has the job really been reduced to that level of pedantry towards drivers hours rules?
I can maybe start to see why, if you were working to the last minute of your daily limit,and it was really 13 hours and 10 mins, but if you are doing say a 12 hour shift for instance,.or an hour within your max, what ■■■■ difference does it make.?
Unless of course you stand to lose 10 mins pay a day,.I can see the point.
Conor:
It’s not possible to do it correctly without doing a manual entry. You have to record the 5 minutes between getting keys and putting card in and the same for the end of the shift too.
Ffs, has the job really been reduced to that level of pedantry towards drivers hours rules?
I can maybe start to see why, if you were working to the last minute of your daily limit,and it was really 13 hours and 10 mins, but if you are doing say a 12 hour shift for instance,.or an hour within your max, what [zb] difference does it make.?
Unless of course you stand to lose 10 mins pay a day,.I can see the point.
What’s the point of recording it wrongly on your tacho card?
Don’t bother trying to do multiple manual entries,you WILL screw up and earn yourself infringements. Use a tacho in qualifying vehicles and for vehicles that don’t qualify then simply make clear and legible diary entries. Perfectly legal, acceptable and without the risk factor.
Conor:
It’s not possible to do it correctly without doing a manual entry. You have to record the 5 minutes between getting keys and putting card in and the same for the end of the shift too.
Ffs, has the job really been reduced to that level of pedantry towards drivers hours rules?
I can maybe start to see why, if you were working to the last minute of your daily limit,and it was really 13 hours and 10 mins, but if you are doing say a 12 hour shift for instance,.or an hour within your max, what [zb] difference does it make.?
Unless of course you stand to lose 10 mins pay a day,.I can see the point.
What’s the point of recording it wrongly on your tacho card?
To what ends exactly?
If it makes no difference to man nor dog in the scenario I pointed out…who tf cares exactly?
Unless you are some kind of neurotic perfectionist that is.
Thank you “all” for your feedback so much to consider, I just want to be within the letter of the law so to speak and not get caught out on the road should i ever be stopped for a spot check etc.
I have taken onboard everything you have said and am watching some videos on how to make manual entrees so that I don’t mess it up.
I thank you all for your reply’s and support, many thanks and have a fantastic Christmas and new year to you all
I don’t see any need to do a manual entry unless your company insist on it.
I certainly wouldn’t bother accounting for five minutes (more likely less) of picking up the keys and walking to the vehicle. If you’re going down that route then you’re probably wanting to include the couple of minutes it takes to drive through the gates and park your car before you pick up the keys.
Do you get paid for every single minute? Or are you (more likely) paid in 15 minute increments?
the maoster:
Don’t bother trying to do multiple manual entries,you WILL screw up and earn yourself infringements. Use a tacho in qualifying vehicles and for vehicles that don’t qualify then simply make clear and legible diary entries. Perfectly legal, acceptable and without the risk factor.
Yep, common sense prevailing over stupid bloody rules.
I too have cocked up trying to do manual ■■■■ entries.
Zac_A:
I don’t see any need to do a manual entry unless your company insist on it.
I certainly wouldn’t bother accounting for five minutes (more likely less) of picking up the keys and walking to the vehicle. If you’re going down that route then you’re probably wanting to include the couple of minutes it takes to drive through the gates and park your car before you pick up the keys.
Do you get paid for every single minute? Or are you (more likely) paid in 15 minute increments?
So if you go and do your usual 5 minute ‘‘debrief’’ (another load of ■■■■■■■■ btw ) and it takes 10 to 15 minutes because the guy has gone for a crap for instance, do these guys go back to their trucks and enter the extra time .
As I said…wtf has this job been reduced to.
We are paid a salary so no matter how matter what time we work till we get paid the same.
Personally I’m with you guys in saying that if its not required then don’t do it as the risk is I gain infringement’s from my own doing by messing it up.
dan9471:
Personally I’m with you guys in saying that if its not required then don’t do it as the risk is I gain infringement’s from my own doing by messing it up.
But it is required. It’s a legal requirement under TrA1968. By not doing it you’re deliberately making a false record and that’s treated much more seriously than an infringement - on summary conviction, fine of £5,000; on indictment, two years’ imprisonment and the 6 month limit for infringements doesn’t apply.
ok i hear you, tomorrow when i go in ill ask another driver who is familiar with the machine to go through it with me and we can do it together to ensure there is no errors.
dan9471:
Personally I’m with you guys in saying that if its not required then don’t do it as the risk is I gain infringement’s from my own doing by messing it up.
But it is required. It’s a legal requirement under TrA1968. By not doing it you’re deliberately making a false record and that’s treated much more seriously than an infringement - on summary conviction, fine of £5,000; on indictment, two years’ imprisonment and the 6 month limit for infringements doesn’t apply.
Do you go around pulling smokers for discarding ■■■ ends?
I mean let’s face it, it is littering and therefore breaking the law (Probably best not to go playing police informant though, a broken nose isn’t the same as a broken law )
robroy:
Ffs, has the job really been reduced to that level of pedantry towards drivers hours rules?
Wants to be considered to be law abiding and professional, doesn’t want to work to the standards that requires.
More like though that robroy doesn’t have a scooby do how to do a manual entry and tries to mask his incompetence by calling it stupid.
Answered in the usual belligerent way you are famous for. …keep it up Conor you know how popular you are on here and you need to maintain it.
Look mate, if I could not do a manual entry I’d admit it, there is more to life (well in my case anyway) than prioritising on such trivial matters…but mosty because I don’t give a flying ■■■■ what a pompous prick like you would think of me…
Anyhoo are you a bit slow,■■..I’ve akready admitted I ■■■■ ed up on a one a while ago already…no big deal except to maybe just you eh?
Assuming that all the driving you do in vehicles fitted with a tachograph is in-scope of EU regulations, for whole days that you do not drive vehicles on tachograph do not try manually putting the whole days work into a tachograph, there’s a risk that you will make mistakes and legally it’s not required anyway.
For days that you don’t drive on the tachograph keep a record of the start and finish times in a diary/notebook, you don’t need to record breaks just start and finish times so the DVLA can see that you’ve had the correct daily/weekly rest periods.
Next time you use a tachograph record the time from the end of the last shift on tachograph to the start of the current shift with the ? symbol, you cannot book it as rest because you’ve worked on smaller vehicles, the ? symbol on the tachograph is used for time that cannot be accounted for with the rest or work symbols, or in other words time that cannot be accurately accounted for on the tachograph.
Legally records for none in-scope driving days should be kept on printouts or charts but the DVLA will accept records kept in a diary/notebook.
As far as doing manual entries for working time before or after taking charge of a vehicle is concerned, personally when I was driving I always preferred to do those manual entries but plenty of people choose not to, legally any work done away from the vehicle is required to be manually recorded on the driver card but I’ve never heard of anyone being done for not doing them … so you choose.
I will say this though, whether or not you choose to do manual entries for the start and end of shift you should at-least learn how to do them and do them occasionally so that when the day comes that you need to do a manual entry for whatever reason you’re familiar with the procedure.
I’ve always taken the attitude that whether you like it or not a tachograph is one of the tools of your trade so you should become familiar with how to use it
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