Olog Hai:
As is always the case in automation threads, a pack of lorry drivers know better than the engineering brains of Daimler, Volvo and ZF and their multi-billion euro R&M budgets.
The attraction to the chattering classes of autonomous lorries should not be underestimated. They will regard it as a solution to the issue of spectacular accidents involving lorries that close major roads for hours at a time; the aggressive idiot that uses his lorry as a weapon wherever possible; the blundering Eastern Euro who drives at 15mph for no obvious reason; the endless bridge bashes caused by drivers who are unable to read height signs in the cab… the list goes on.
AndrewG:
…but getting the public to accept that 44ton autonomous truck carreering up behind them is going to stop is another thing.
Given the level to which the UK haulage industry is infested with idiots, that is already a legitimate concern even before automation arrives, which it will.
It is nothing to do with lorry drivers, it is to do with demographics, and reality.
The only way any autonomous vehicle can function, is when it is only confronted with, and surrounded by, known quantities. The easiest example to give is an equal junction.
Four vehicles approach an equal junction. Who goes first? Each car has both right of way, and at the same time must yield… Human drivers solve this through interaction, courtesy or bullying. Tiny signals, eye contact, and personality all play a part in a situation that the computer can’t solve.
That’s a really good point you’ve bought up, it’s something they’re struggling with. We take it for granted how well even the most stupid person actual does make decisions, judge things and generally interpret situations in challenging and changeable environments that are open to sometimes random things. I suspect for it to flourish the road system will need to change to be more protected from external wild card factors and a move to 100 percent automated vehicles on main routes will be needed.
Horses and cars didn’t mix too well together at first. Didn’t make the initial minority in favour of cars give up.
Autonomous and manual systems aren’t going to be easy to manage as a mixture.
Maybe the problem of integrating the two won’t mean the abandonment of autonomous systems as some suggest, but rather accelerate the adoption of full auto?
.
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I’m not speaking in favour of such, just pointing out the way it could go.
Franglais:
Horses and cars didn’t mix too well together at first. Didn’t make the initial minority in favour of cars give up.
Autonomous and manual systems aren’t going to be easy to manage as a mixture.
Maybe the problem of integrating the two won’t mean the abandonment of autonomous systems as some suggest, but rather accelerate the adoption of full auto?
.
.
I’m not speaking in favour of such, just pointing out the way it could go.
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You can not compare early cars and horses, because both were controlled by a human driver.
the nodding donkey:
It is nothing to do with lorry drivers, it is to do with demographics, and reality.
The only way any autonomous vehicle can function, is when it is only confronted with, and surrounded by, known quantities. The easiest example to give is an equal junction.
Four vehicles approach an equal junction. Who goes first? Each car has both right of way, and at the same time must yield… Human drivers solve this through interaction, courtesy or bullying. Tiny signals, eye contact, and personality all play a part in a situation that the computer can’t solve.
You may be right, but I’m sure such a situation is not beyond the combined might of Daimler, Volvo and ZF’s engineering brains. They may even have considered it already…
the nodding donkey:
It is nothing to do with lorry drivers, it is to do with demographics, and reality.
The only way any autonomous vehicle can function, is when it is only confronted with, and surrounded by, known quantities. The easiest example to give is an equal junction.
Four vehicles approach an equal junction. Who goes first? Each car has both right of way, and at the same time must yield… Human drivers solve this through interaction, courtesy or bullying. Tiny signals, eye contact, and personality all play a part in a situation that the computer can’t solve.
You may be right, but I’m sure such a situation is not beyond the combined might of Daimler, Volvo and ZF’s engineering brains. They may even have considered it already…
But that is the problem. Integration of autonomous vehicles is not an engineering problem. If tomorrow there would be a separate road system for autonomous vehicles, they would be on the road and working. If an RDC designed to deal just with autonomous trucks would be served by a dedicated road , we would see autonomous trucks next week. I do believe that a small amount of shunting, on factory/warehouse sites, and on restricted industrial sites, will be with us in the next few years. But integration of autonomous vehicles, in our complicated everyday life, is at best decades away.
I think autonomous trucks are just a phishing post by e/b to see how long itl run before his pals ukrddozyitsjoetrampdamon and the others pop up to chat with each other/ himself again…
however,relating to 4 trucks at a crossroads.
what happens when 2 computers play chess?
eagerbeaver:
It would seem that automated wagons are being discussed more and more, but what is the end goal of all this?
I am aware we have some ’ experts ’ on here, but I am struggling to see the ultimate end game for all this.
Is it to save lives? Reduce congestion? Create jobs?
Just don’t get it. Help the Beaver, I insist
Saves operators money on drivers, gets more done as the trucks don’t need to rest.
Upside is that it means yet another dangerous job that is bad for your health and has ridiculous hours is consigned to the history books where it belongs. People didn’t mourn not being able to work 84hrs a week in t’mill when that was automated out, we shouldn’t mourn the end of this.
As robroy says though, we probably won’t see it by the time we retire but I reckon we’ll live long enough to.
This job is not dangerous nor bad for your health unless you’re lazy. The hours aren’t what I’d call ridiculous then again I’m not a fairy like you.
There are plenty of jobs that are much harder going that sitting on your hole pootling around in a truck, stop acting like truck drivers are hard done by.
If you seriously believe all those points you’ve made maybe you should mince off out of this industry, you won’t be missed.
dieseldog999:
I think autonomous trucks are just a phishing post by e/b to see how long itl run before his pals ukrddozyitsjoetrampdamon and the others pop up to chat with each other/ himself again…
however,relating to 4 trucks at a crossroads.
what happens when 2 computers play chess?
“Now, researchers have been testing its willingness to cooperate with others, and have revealed that when DeepMind feels like it’s about to lose, it opts for “highly aggressive” strategies to ensure that it comes out on top.”
Automation is the future, Automation is already here, Automation has already replaced the jobs humans used to do, and are continually being replaced…remember the old Docks…theyre gone…replaced by containers…remember the delays in the docks waiting to get loaded with a container…now it collects it from its spot…and brings it to the bay your waiting in…then loads it for you…only one man with a laptop…so the way forward now, is to replace drivers ( so they think ) with self driving trucks…maybe containers would be used…who knows…but the way i see it…is they can keep running cant they…no hours to worry about, breaks, rests, toilet breaks…just charge up and go…they will arrive…but not in my lifetime, and i dont think in yours…as theres a lot to sort out… but first i think will be electric ones…hybrids…before theyre let loose on their own.
If four autonomous vehicles arrive at a xroads they will all stop and their computers will “talk” to each other and one will be given the command to proceed. Not much different to what we do at present. Driverless is the future and it will come its just a matter of when.
alamcculloch:
If four autonomous vehicles arrive at a xroads they will all stop and their computers will “talk” to each other and one will be given the command to proceed. Not much different to what we do at present. Driverless is the future and it will come its just a matter of when.
Probably that’s much nearer the truth.
Or they’ll “talk” to each other on the approach, slow down at differing rates and merge/turn with minimal disruption.
Not today, but it’s coming.
alamcculloch:
If four autonomous vehicles arrive at a xroads they will all stop and their computers will “talk” to each other and one will be given the command to proceed. Not much different to what we do at present. Driverless is the future and it will come its just a matter of when.
Probably that’s much nearer the truth.
Or they’ll “talk” to each other on the approach, slow down at differing rates and merge/turn with minimal disruption.
Not today, but it’s coming.
alamcculloch:
If four autonomous vehicles arrive at a xroads they will all stop and their computers will “talk” to each other and one will be given the command to proceed. Not much different to what we do at present. Driverless is the future and it will come its just a matter of when.
Probably that’s much nearer the truth.
Or they’ll “talk” to each other on the approach, slow down at differing rates and merge/turn with minimal disruption.
Not today, but it’s coming.
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That is one reason why autonomous vehicles can only operate in a segregated environment. They have to communicate with each other. They can’t communicate with driver operated vehicles.
alamcculloch:
If four autonomous vehicles arrive at a xroads they will all stop and their computers will “talk” to each other and one will be given the command to proceed. Not much different to what we do at present. Driverless is the future and it will come its just a matter of when.
Probably that’s much nearer the truth.
Or they’ll “talk” to each other on the approach, slow down at differing rates and merge/turn with minimal disruption.
Not today, but it’s coming.
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That is one reason why autonomous vehicles can only operate in a segregated environment. They have to communicate with each other. They can’t communicate with driver operated vehicles.
I do very much accept that mixing of auto and manual systems is going to be messy.
But isn’t that going to accelerate the transition period?
Once there is a half way viable alternative to . . .us . . the autos will take over rapidly?
Still, once we’re retired (voluntarily or forced) we can take those redundant gear sticks, sharpen them into spears, and prepare!
IBM with all its computer power defeated Kasparov at chess, but despite the cost of development and the great minds that created the programme, it still needed a human to move the pieces for the computer. Perhaps for automation to succeed we have got to become less human, as the two are not totally compatible.
I struggle to think how, just in my job of delivering containers, an autonomous driverless truck could cope with the idiosyncrasies of each customer and delivery point.
It would obviously have no problem with the trunk part of the journey, but the railway does that already.
alamcculloch:
If four autonomous vehicles arrive at a xroads they will all stop and their computers will “talk” to each other and one will be given the command to proceed. Not much different to what we do at present. Driverless is the future and it will come its just a matter of when.
Probably that’s much nearer the truth.
Or they’ll “talk” to each other on the approach, slow down at differing rates and merge/turn with minimal disruption.
Not today, but it’s coming.
Sent from my GT-S7275R using Tapatalk
That is one reason why autonomous vehicles can only operate in a segregated environment. They have to communicate with each other. They can’t communicate with driver operated vehicles.
I do very much accept that mixing of auto and manual systems is going to be messy.
But isn’t that going to accelerate the transition period?
Once there is a half way viable alternative to . . .us . . the autos will take over rapidly?
Still, once we’re retired (voluntarily or forced) we can take those redundant gear sticks, sharpen them into spears, and prepare!
Come the Revolution!
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Come the revolution, most of the population will be so sedated by their diet of xfactor and EastEnders, and shall be easy pickings.
Universal income an interesting concept, if this works out as well as the electricity so plentiful they won’t bother charging, and other such ■■■■■■■■ we’ve heard over the years from the propaganda wings charged with softening up the public for the next shift.
There are too many people in this country and europe at the moment for universal income for doing bugger all, but don’t worry the coming cultural and religious wars will sort that little issue.
on here, but I am struggling to see the ultimate end game for all this.
