Hi all.
Recently started a 2nd job were on some shifts no duty or driving time is carried out at all. You turn up, clock in and if their is no work to be carried out you are free to do as you please and this can be spending a full shift sleeping in your car or watching tv. No keys are given unless you are given a job, if you get a call then you get keys and do manual entry and do the usual checks before carrying out what needs doing. I would like to know when no other work is carried out, and i mean nothing ! how should a shift like this be recorded? I have just been using the bed mode because that is what ive been doing. I thought about using poa but im aware about the time known in advance take on it which doesnt happen in this job. Do i just carry on using the bed mode on these shifts and how important is it to do a manual start and finish time for these shifts when you can just turn up not have a vehicle and just sleep until clock out time ? Thanks
Who cares? 
More importantly have they got any vacancies?.., this is just the job I’ve been looking for all my working life. 
I personally would just put it on bed, you’ve turned in for work. there is no work…
so what else would you do.?
As for manual entries I would not bother my arse about it, but that’s just me.
I ain’t no expert but I can not see ‘‘them’’ doing you for anything,.and if they try I’d reckon it would be laughed out of court.
robroy:
Who cares?
More importantly have they got any vacancies?.., this is just the job I’ve been looking for all my working life.
Winter is on the doorstep look into your locla councils, they will need gritter drivers.
Last winter I worked 25 5 hour shifts in 7 months. and got paid for the whole lot!
Edit, 8 months, october to 1st of may! is that right 8 months?
I would argue that it wasnt rest as i assume you are unable to leave the site and therefore unable to “spend your time as you wish” or what ever the buzz phrase is.
I have never understood poa as the stipulation seems to be you need to know the length of time in advance as you said. If they know your not needed for 2 hours who is going to get you to book in 2 hours before your needed and pay you. unless your on a contract that says you have to be there at x o’clock. The other side of the coin is how can anyone prove that you were told at 2pm that you wouldnt be needed till 4pm. no one will know if you started at 3pm that you were notsupposed to start till 4
cooper1203:
I would argue that it wasnt rest as i assume you are unable to leave the site and therefore unable to “spend your time as you wish” or what ever the buzz phrase is.I have never understood poa as the stipulation seems to be you need to know the length of time in advance as you said. If they know your not needed for 2 hours who is going to get you to book in 2 hours before your needed and pay you. unless your on a contract that says you have to be there at x o’clock. The other side of the coin is how can anyone prove that you were told at 2pm that you wouldnt be needed till 4pm. no one will know if you started at 3pm that you were notsupposed to start till 4
The buzz phrase for breaks AT/DURING work is “periods used exclusively for rest and recuperation”.
Breaks AWAY FROM WORK (ie weekly rests) are periods where you are free to do as you wish.
So you turn up, clock in, go see them in the office, they say nowt doing yet, you got to your car for x amount of hours, then go clock out and go home.
So that shift would be recorded as a few minutes or how ever many other work to start, x amount of hours on bed, then a few minutes of other work to clock out.
cooper1203:
I would argue that it wasnt rest as i assume you are unable to leave the site and therefore unable to “spend your time as you wish” or what ever the buzz phrase is.I have never understood poa as the stipulation seems to be you need to know the length of time in advance as you said. If they know your not needed for 2 hours who is going to get you to book in 2 hours before your needed and pay you. unless your on a contract that says you have to be there at x o’clock. The other side of the coin is how can anyone prove that you were told at 2pm that you wouldnt be needed till 4pm. no one will know if you started at 3pm that you were notsupposed to start till 4
Not rest as you’re not free to dispose of your time as you wish and you are under instruction / obligation, but it is perfectly legal break.
Think of poa just a tool for drivers who have all recorded breaks deducted to get paid whilst waiting around and not unnecessarily racking up wtd working time. As anyone else can just use break when waiting about
stevieboy308:
Not rest as you’re not free to dispose of your time as you wish and you are under instruction / obligation, but it is perfectly legal break.Think of poa just a tool for drivers who have all recorded breaks deducted to get paid whilst waiting around and not unnecessarily racking up wtd working time. As anyone else can just use break when waiting about
THIS is the answer 
In my humble opinion if your on one of these POA breaks you will never be able to spend your time as you please ,can not have a pint ,can not work out in a gym it is just a get out to work longer.
Personally, I wouldn’t record it as anything. 
Back in the day i’d be doing exactly as Harry suggested… However these days its risky.
I would be showing 5 mins other work at start and end of shift with the remaining time being rest.
What do you have to gain by not recording it? Save the 20 seconds it’ll take on a manual entry, that you’re on pay for whilst checking facey for 15 mins, aka the walk around check. Maybe squeeze another shift in, personally the regs allow more than enough time for that.
Whilst it’s only a slim chance of getting caught, but now you must record all your rest periods, so if you don’t manually enter the shift, you’ll record it as rest, that’s making a false record which isn’t looked on in good terms and is usually taken pretty seriously. Do you think the firm or agency will lie for you if asked? Your phone will show you made the journey and sat there for however long.
The game’s moved on, some people aren’t keeping up, there’s multiple records of you doing the shift anyway that can drop you in it, it’d be very foolish to not record it in my book, especially just to save a 20 second manual entry or written down on a printout if you’re still struggling to get your head round them!
I get some people want to stick it to the man n’all, but choose your battles wisely, it’s a 20 second manual ffs!
It’s this weird thing some have of turning something that’s completely legal to something that’s not, for next to no gain at all!
fuse:
In my humble opinion if your on one of these POA breaks you will never be able to spend your time as you please ,can not have a pint ,can not work out in a gym it is just a get out to work longer.
It only effects the WTD side of things, as in the 48 hours average and max of 60, there’s next to no enforcement of it or any fines available to the be given to the driver anyway and many have no regard for it. But if you want to abide by it and want to maximise your earnings then use break or poa, it makes no difference, you can’t work longer shifts because of it.
If you don’t, record it as other work, your firm might or might not have an issue with you doing that though.
astanka:
Hi all.
Recently started a 2nd job
Depends if you’re struggling to get your 45 hrs off each week?
stevieboy308:
What do you have to gain by not recording it?
Not imagining that I am a citizen of the USSR in 1952 whose every activity is monitored by the State. 
Harry Monk:
stevieboy308:
What do you have to gain by not recording it?Not imagining that I am a citizen of the USSR in 1952 whose every activity is monitored by the State.
You’re right, that’s the last time I’m gonna do a manual entry!
POA.
Kinda the definition of PEROID OF AVAIABILITY no?
I’d personally put it as Rest but I would consider POA if I was on agency.
Mainly to make sure I got paid and them not to try to claim “you didnt actually work”
But I think there is a legislation somewhere that commuting to work has some impact on daily rest if it is over a certain amount of miles. But I can not remember it or find it. So maybe I am talking bs.
adam277:
POA.Kinda the definition of PEROID OF AVAIABILITY no?
I’d personally put it as Rest but I would consider POA if I was on agency.
Mainly to make sure I got paid and them not to try to claim “you didnt actually work”
But I think there is a legislation somewhere that commuting to work has some impact on daily rest if it is over a certain amount of miles. But I can not remember it or find it. So maybe I am talking bs.
Commuting to your normal place of work is a rest activity, it’s only if you where traveling to or from somewhere that wasn’t your normal place that it would be either other work or poa if you wasn’t doing the driving or any other work
drover:
Back in the day i’d be doing exactly as Harry suggested… However these days its risky.I would be showing 5 mins other work at start and end of shift with the remaining time being rest.
I must have a similar job as the OP and I record it on my tacho as stated in the quote, and record a manual entry as and when I use a vehicle. Watching TV, sleeping in car, reading a book, whatever it is recorded with the bed symbol on the tacho, its been busy for a couple of months, I actually recorded 14 hours of driving time over the last 2 weeks Where do I work? I am not telling you!!!
Would it not record as other work if getting paid then just log breaks? Unless you can claim the break as part of your weekly rest??
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