Rowley010:
And also like someone else said, I don’t particularly want to have to park in a truck stop that stinks of ■■■■ for 12 hours before I can move off!
You do know it’s only reduced daily rest that drops it from the 11 hours already needed to be parked in a truck stop before you can move off.On that note the idea of 11 hours being seen as the exception not the rule is obviously part of the problem.
Hi CF, do you add the rolling eye emoticon as a sort of “over” and the lightbulb one as “over and out”? We get that anything below 11 is a reduced rest in official nomenclature. I would however like to draw your attention to the fact that the GB Domestic Regs you are championing are a pile of stinking, unfit for purpose, horse manure. Adding a 12 hour overnight rest to them is akin to making sure that nice colour co-ordinated towels are used for water boarding. The EU rules on the other hand give us flexibility with sensible protections for the driver from avaricious, insomniac bosses.
There have been some decent suggestions made here. GB Dometics isn’t one.
12 hour max shift length.
12 hour minimum rest.
10 hour drives with 1 hour break per day made up of 15/30/15 daily.
Driving and working periods of no more than 4 hours at a time without a break.
48 hour weekly rest minimum.
No reductions, no compensations, no split breaks.
All digital Tachographs to be of exactly the same make and model.
All fines given to drivers are also given to the company for an equal amount.
As for the real world, I quite like the EU regs, with the proviso, that they should be tested in full, or in graduations so that everyone understands them instead of the million different versions armchair experts have dreamt up…
Rowley010:
And also like someone else said, I don’t particularly want to have to park in a truck stop that stinks of ■■■■ for 12 hours before I can move off!
You do know it’s only reduced daily rest that drops it from the 11 hours already needed to be parked in a truck stop before you can move off.On that note the idea of 11 hours being seen as the exception not the rule is obviously part of the problem.
Hi CF, do you add the rolling eye emoticon as a sort of “over” and the lightbulb one as “over and out”? We get that anything below 11 is a reduced rest in official nomenclature. I would however like to draw your attention to the fact that the GB Domestic Regs you are championing are a pile of stinking, unfit for purpose, horse manure. Adding a 12 hour overnight rest to them is akin to making sure that nice colour co-ordinated towels are used for water boarding. The EU rules on the other hand give us flexibility with sensible protections for the driver from avaricious, insomniac bosses.
There have been some decent suggestions made here. GB Dometics isn’t one.
How is 9 hours daily rest provision supposedly a good thing,while 12 hours minimum daily rest,or even for that matter the arguable provision of ‘sufficient rest’,is supposedly ‘torture’,in your view.It’s clear which is the over complicated,potentially dangerous,stinking pile of zb in that regard.Just like everything else about the zb EU.
Yes a more flexible less rigid regime,with no tachos telling anyone to drive when they are tired and to stop when they aren’t and more available daily driving time to find a decent place to park or get home.With the potential for more sleep between shifts for anyone who’s got the bottle to tell the guvnor no even without a change to 12 hours minimum daily rest.What’s not to like.
First off, scrap the wtd, poa, 48 hour averages and reference periods. Replace it with a half hour break without exceeding 6 hours duty, to keep the urban drivers covered. No covenants, no implications, just a simple break every day.
Duty time up at 13 hours, but still allowing 9 hour breaks for flexible start times. 15 hours duty only available if part of a 3/9 = 12 split rest.
Driving time changed to 50 hours a week and the rolling fortnight and 90 hours abolished.
A ten hour drive only counts if it exceeds 15 minutes. If under, an extra 45 mins can be used on another day.
Scrap the stupid rule where you can’t be picked up if out of duty time.
You’re never gonna please all of the people all of the time.
But, surely we can all agree that the present regs are a confusing and in many cases utterly pointless mess.
Some like the option. 3x 12-15 hour shifts or 35-40 hours is 4 day weekend with a weeks pay. As said previous if you want to work shorter shifts work shorter shifts and have the saftey net to get home should you need it.
Alot of pallet trunk runs from devon an cornwall wont make it in 12 hours. Just not practical unless in the midlands.
Rowley010:
And also like someone else said, I don’t particularly want to have to park in a truck stop that stinks of ■■■■ for 12 hours before I can move off!
You do know it’s only reduced daily rest that drops it from the 11 hours already needed to be parked in a truck stop before you can move off.On that note the idea of 11 hours being seen as the exception not the rule is obviously part of the problem.
Hi CF, do you add the rolling eye emoticon as a sort of “over” and the lightbulb one as “over and out”? We get that anything below 11 is a reduced rest in official nomenclature. I would however like to draw your attention to the fact that the GB Domestic Regs you are championing are a pile of stinking, unfit for purpose, horse manure. Adding a 12 hour overnight rest to them is akin to making sure that nice colour co-ordinated towels are used for water boarding. The EU rules on the other hand give us flexibility with sensible protections for the driver from avaricious, insomniac bosses.
There have been some decent suggestions made here. GB Dometics isn’t one.
How is 9 hours daily rest provision supposedly a good thing,while 12 hours minimum daily rest,or even for that matter the arguable provision of ‘sufficient rest’,is supposedly ‘torture’,in your view.It’s clear which is the over complicated,potentially dangerous,stinking pile of zb in that regard.Just like everything else about the zb EU.
I’m sorry, you are either appearing to misunderstand for sport or you have a condition of some kind. I apologise if you are ill, I am going to try not to antagonise you just in case. Have a nice evening and make sure you take your meds as prescribed.
ROG:
Why do some drivers think that having 9 rest means they must be doing a 15 shift
Many trampers do 12 on 9 off three times in a row for example
That’s a European staple. I know plenty of drivers who start at 3-4 in the afternoon, and are starting at 3-4 in the morning by the time they’ve had a 24 off on the return journey
OVLOV JAY:
First off, scrap the wtd, poa, 48 hour averages and reference periods. Replace it with a half hour break without exceeding 6 hours duty, to keep the urban drivers covered. No covenants, no implications, just a simple break every day.
Duty time up at 13 hours, but still allowing 9 hour breaks for flexible start times. 15 hours duty only available if part of a 3/9 = 12 split rest.
Driving time changed to 50 hours a week and the rolling fortnight and 90 hours abolished.
A ten hour drive only counts if it exceeds 15 minutes. If under, an extra 45 mins can be used on another day.
Scrap the stupid rule where you can’t be picked up if out of duty time.
ROG:
Why do some drivers think that having 9 rest means they must be doing a 15 shift
Many trampers do 12 on 9 off three times in a row for example
Does it matter when the point is the amount ( lack ) of sleep anyone has had between shifts.In either case we’re potentially talking about the previous example of 5-6 hours sleep between shifts.Who cares if the actual shifts are 12 or 15 hours in that regard.While it’s obvious that some minority tramper examples are being used to justify a dodgy daily rest regime that affects all drivers in general.
I work 10 on and 14 off seems to work great for me but in the past I used to do 12 on 12 off but got feed up working an extra 3hrs unpaid so now do 1hr unpaid which is my hour to get to somewhere nice to park up for the evening/night.
Everything else doesn’t bother me as I don’t do enough to worry about them like driving times etc I just like to take my full 45min by the 6hr rule as that’s usually between 12-3pm depending when I started.
I’m not certain this is correct but I heard train drivers are something like:-
Maximum 12 hour day (including commuting)
Maximum 10 hours driving in a day but the last hour can’t be the last hour of the shift
Minimum 12 hours daily rest (excluding commuting) before next shift regardless of length of previous shift
Max 5 days consecutively
Minimum 48 hours off before starting another 5 days
Commuting counts towards shift times.
I doubt this is actually correct but it sounds good.
Of course with this set of rules the industry would never manage. Just not flexible enough.
Lets face it, the current rules are fine. They allow things to get done when they need to. The problem is Operators who constantly push those limits and drivers who constantly push those limits to increase earnings.
Those that want to do 15 hour days etc etc and are fit to do so, go ahead and fill yer boots. Those that don’t and are complaining the rules are silly - Non of the rules say you HAVE to work those hours. Go get a different job or negotiate a better deal with your boss.
A system built around 12 and three quarter hour spreadover 11 and a quarter off. With a bit of flexible overtime for running back in if necssary at weekend. Cant be arsed to work any other intricate details in this as it’s pointless anyway.
Say wtf you like but a 60 hour working week is enough for anybody …end of, and if you work for a good firm (unlike me) who pay you through your break, then that is a bonus.
Let them shove their 15 on 9 off up their arses, drivers should wake up and see that excessive hours in comparison to other industries, are only worked to try and make a decent bottom line figure out of a ■■■■ poor wage structure, eg.time and a quid after 50 hours and that kind of ‘all on their side’’ type ■■■■■■■■.
Don’t come back with ‘nature of the job’ and all that crap, as the answer is it is only so because it has been set up that way… and need not be.
Firms can afford to pay parasitic agencies a decent rate per hour, so they could afford to pay full timers the same in this 60 hour max system.
How about going back to the “good old days”, i suppose i,m talking BRS early 50s when everything was so simple to understand .
As a tramper it was the weekends giving the problem ,not being able to work two sundays in a row,so if you landed far away on a saturday it was a stopover paid at double time (11 hrs) for Sunday or travelling home by train which was not always an option say from scotch .
Other rules were 11 hr day normal, two days (not consecutive) of 12 hrs as long as 1hr spent loading ,a 14 hr spreadover was allowed on those days with 2 x1hrs breaks .so a typical max week could be 4x11 + 2x12 and 1 x 11 dt .
Some unscrupilous drivers i’m told used more than 1 log sheet a day and booked dodgy nights whatever that was ,! but i do remember drivers did’nt seem to moan about it -a case of accepting the rules or shut up.
i think 30 mins drive 45 mins break max 8 hours a day would be about right
seriously if your away from home then 9 hours is more than enough rest but it also should be optional, so that a boss could not force you back on the road after 9 hours if your knackered, it would be down to the driver to have either 9 or 11 rest but all your tacho need show is 9 hours rest each day.
driving time should be at least 10 hours each day but you would need 2 breaks do to 10 hours
the working day should stay the same 15 hours max so that people can earn a good screw rather than have a reduction just because some drivers have wifes that work so they dont need the extra hours all i would say is it should be optional for the driver to choose the amount of hours he wants or needs to work in a week
it should be against the law to have timed deliveries as it puts the driver under to much pressure to get the job done and it means cutting corners which means safety goes out of the window. i can not believe in this day and age were health and safety bollox gets rammed down drivers throats, that the powers that be, can simply ignore one huge risk of health and safety which is timed deliveries.
