Oh, and another bucket of water on your bonfire. Drivers are not the only people working long, or unsociable hours…
Try being self employed. Not only having to do the actual work, but also your admin afterwards. If you’re a builder or such, you get the fun pastime of going to peoples houses to do unpaid free estimates. If you use equipment, you suffer when the equipment breaks down. Double, because your income stops, and the money starts to drain…
Or try being on a zero hour contract, at the mersey of a ‘team leader’, never knowing if you will earn enough to pay the rent or feed your kids…
Or, try working g in a factory, doing the same menial task over and over, for 8 or 12 hours, with a half hour 'lunch break" inbetween, and knowing that that is what you’ll be doing, for the rest of your life.
If you think dealing for 10 minutes, once a day, with Doris at goods in is a bit harsh, try working with the public all day… most of you would either be on Valium, or in prison within a year…
If the limper sat next to you in the waiting room is either a bore, or risking knocking you out with his aroma, you can get up and walk away, or tell him what you think. Try that in an office based job.
Most drivers have never done another job, and complain hardest about how hard done they’re by. We, go and try something else. I hear shelf stacking pays more than driving.
Gidders:
If I recall correctly it was 12 and a half hours maximun spreadover.
11 hours duty.
10 hours driving.
Much more sensible and better for the drivers’ wellbeing.Having said that,there were still those for whom 24 hours/day was nowhere near enough.
It’s clear that the interpretation of ‘domestic’ regs was corrupted by the Europhile scammers.
Domestic by definition means all operations within our own borders.All operations carried out under a National O licence should also mean operating under domestic hours regs.
Then the 90 kmh limiter setting for domestic operations in a 60 mph limit.
Fuller transmissions no longer allowed.■■■■■■■ engines no longer allowed.No prizes for guessing where their European operations were based and who gained from the resulting closures.
robroy:
Nobody voted for it mate, it was forced on us.
It’s always puzzled wtf 15 hour days in charge of a 44 tonne artic sharing a road with smaller vehicles (after having 9 hours rest consecutively x3 ) has any bearing to Health and Safety, …especially when the same H&S is rammed down our necks as being essential for far less trivial things.
It just shows it up like everything else in this job, a sham, put there only to look on the surface proper, but with no real substance.
You’re right btw, it was a 12 and half hour spread.
I think it was 8 hours driving, but it was in correlation with 8 hours paid basic, and time and a half over 8,
So it amuses me on here, when you point out how ridiculous rhe long hours in this job are, when you invariably get the inevitable…‘Nature of the job’ and ‘That’s the way it’s always been’ from the dim and the brainwashed 80 hours crew.
Happy new year Beanie mate btw.
I dont disagree with you in principle, but you are comparing apples with satsumas.
There is a big difference in driving a truck from that era, which was physically more demanding, and often included handball, afterwhich you had to find digs (usually shared… ). I agree that the rules need to be sorted, but to be honest, with todays level of comfort, doing a 9 or 10 hour rest in your sleeper is not that bad. What does need changing is allowing drivers to fit in a commute in a reduced rest, and allowing multiple reductions consecutively. (Apart from Friday…)
Jeez ND, it wasn’t the 50s I’m on about, like driving a Thames Trader dressed in a bib and brace and clogs with no heater.
I had some dodgy motors, but at one point I had a brand new Maggie Deutz, full sleeper, night heater that was 1979 btw, .a DAF 2800 brand new,.and a Merc, ok they werr not ultra modern, but decent comfortable motors,.albeit of their time.
No or very little handball, no digs, I think I stayed in about 2…there were also sleeping across the seats in day cabs times, but even that was not too bad.
Say what you like mate, the hours in this job are ■■■■ ridiculous, we only accept them as ‘the norm’ because we are now used to them,.and some know nothing else.
They need sorted , just like other outdated working practices…like kids going down mines.
To be honest the 15 hour spread did help us involved with construction/road surfacing work as occasionally we got held up due to weather conditions/machine breakdowns etc and previously with the shorter hours the company had to send fitters etc out to fetch the truck/s back. Ten hours driving time helped as well. Otherwise we rarely worked a maximum day but I’m guessing lads on tramping would. It also helped later when the break could be taken after 4.5 hours driving instead of actual duty time, getting held up in traffic/loading/tipping really ate into that and at times we could almost need a break without having turned a wheel and earned nowt!
robroy:
Nobody voted for it mate, it was forced on us.
It’s always puzzled wtf 15 hour days in charge of a 44 tonne artic sharing a road with smaller vehicles (after having 9 hours rest consecutively x3 ) has any bearing to Health and Safety, …especially when the same H&S is rammed down our necks as being essential for far less trivial things.
It just shows it up like everything else in this job, a sham, put there only to look on the surface proper, but with no real substance.
You’re right btw, it was a 12 and half hour spread.
I think it was 8 hours driving, but it was in correlation with 8 hours paid basic, and time and a half over 8,
So it amuses me on here, when you point out how ridiculous rhe long hours in this job are, when you invariably get the inevitable…‘Nature of the job’ and ‘That’s the way it’s always been’ from the dim and the brainwashed 80 hours crew.
Happy new year Beanie mate btw.
I dont disagree with you in principle, but you are comparing apples with satsumas.
There is a big difference in driving a truck from that era, which was physically more demanding, and often included handball, afterwhich you had to find digs (usually shared… ). I agree that the rules need to be sorted, but to be honest, with todays level of comfort, doing a 9 or 10 hour rest in your sleeper is not that bad. What does need changing is allowing drivers to fit in a commute in a reduced rest, and allowing multiple reductions consecutively. (Apart from Friday…)
Jeez ND, it wasn’t the 50s I’m on about, like driving a Thames Trader dressed in a bib and brace and clogs with no heater.
I had some dodgy motors, but at one point I had a brand new Maggie Deutz, full sleeper, night heater that was 1979 btw, .a DAF 2800 brand new,.and a Merc, ok they werr not ultra modern, but decent comfortable motors,.albeit of their time.
No or very little handball, no digs, I think I stayed in about 2…there were also sleeping across the seats in day cabs times, but even that was not too bad.
Say what you like mate, the hours in this job are [zb] ridiculous, we only accept them as ‘the norm’ because we are now used to them,.and some know nothing else.
They need sorted , just like other outdated working practices…like kids going down mines.
Tbh, I’ve been driving for30 years now, 28 over here, and the tacho laws were in place then. So when exactly did the rules here change? I know about the “domestic rules” but they can only be used for a few specific applications, and they dont have a spread over. And since when did lower legally permitted hours actually mean lower hours worked.? Or are all the stories of frisbees, wires, pulled fuses and clock winding just ■■■■■■■■ .
As for stagnating or poor wages, the rates in South Wales in the early 90’s were abysmal, even without EE drivers. That’s why I started driving in Swindon, and moved to Wiltshire in 2000.
Hyh:
Rumours are that the French are already fitting reverse gears to their fishing boats and prepping the white flags
More like waving their copy of the 2,000 page Bozo treaty, saying nothing has changed, to the Cornish coast guard and waved through.
I hear Belgium is mobilising the heavily armed Chinese fishing fleet.
Taking the ■■■■ out of your neighbours is universal. A popular Dutch joke asks “why didnt the Belgian Navy fight the Germans when they invaded?”
.
.
.
“Because there was no wind”
the nodding donkey:
Oh, and another bucket of water on your bonfire. Drivers are not the only people working long, or unsociable hours…
Try being self employed. Not only having to do the actual work, but also your admin afterwards. If you’re a builder or such, you get the fun pastime of going to peoples houses to do unpaid free estimates. If you use equipment, you suffer when the equipment breaks down. Double, because your income stops, and the money starts to drain…
Or try being on a zero hour contract, at the mersey of a ‘team leader’, never knowing if you will earn enough to pay the rent or feed your kids…
Or, try working g in a factory, doing the same menial task over and over, for 8 or 12 hours, with a half hour 'lunch break" inbetween, and knowing that that is what you’ll be doing, for the rest of your life.
If you think dealing for 10 minutes, once a day, with Doris at goods in is a bit harsh, try working with the public all day… most of you would either be on Valium, or in prison within a year…
If the limper sat next to you in the waiting room is either a bore, or risking knocking you out with his aroma, you can get up and walk away, or tell him what you think. Try that in an office based job.
Most drivers have never done another job, and complain hardest about how hard done they’re by. We, go and try something else. I hear shelf stacking pays more than driving.
I’ve worked in loads of factories ( engineering ) & I don’t remember any 15 /13 hr shifts , most were 6-2 , 2-10 , you never did 15 / 13 hrs on a sat , it was a sat morning , normally 6-12 , all you did was clock in / out , then stood at you machine other when you had your 2 x 15 & 1x30 min break , to suggest folks in factories do any where near the hours we do is wrong in my view / experience of working in various factories
The lad next door who does house maintenance starts leaves home at 7.30 & is home by 15.30 , the lad across the road who is a welder , leaves home 6.30 & is home by 14.30 , bloke over back is a manager does 9-17.00
None are anywhere near the hours I & others do ,
It was my choice to change so I shouldn’t moan though I do , my point is in my experience to compare factory hours etc to the hours lots of lorry drivers work is wrong
Railway maintenance is an example of similar hours, perfectly legal to work 13 x 12hrs shifts then have 24hrs off and start again. Normal week when I was on would be 12hrs Saturday night, the 10hrs Sunday - Thursday night, drive straight home Friday morning and then back to start again on the Saturday night. Yes, the pay made up for it and you did get a hotel instead of a truck cab (although for 3 years its was a 4 berth touring caravan), but I’ve a better quality of life and home time back on the trucks averaging 60hrs a week tramping
Henrys cat:
Railway maintenance is an example of similar hours, perfectly legal to work 13 x 12hrs shifts then have 24hrs off and start again. Normal week when I was on would be 12hrs Saturday night, the 10hrs Sunday - Thursday night, drive straight home Friday morning and then back to start again on the Saturday night. Yes, the pay made up for it and you did get a hotel instead of a truck cab (although for 3 years its was a 4 berth touring caravan), but I’ve a better quality of life and home time back on the trucks averaging 60hrs a week tramping
Yep, I know a lad who works on Network Rail, he’s on a vast amount more money than me,.so it’s a case of apples and oranges bud.
And he ain’t in charge of 44 tonnes on a road.
Henrys cat:
Railway maintenance is an example of similar hours, perfectly legal to work 13 x 12hrs shifts then have 24hrs off and start again. Normal week when I was on would be 12hrs Saturday night, the 10hrs Sunday - Thursday night, drive straight home Friday morning and then back to start again on the Saturday night. Yes, the pay made up for it and you did get a hotel instead of a truck cab (although for 3 years its was a 4 berth touring caravan), but I’ve a better quality of life and home time back on the trucks averaging 60hrs a week tramping
Yep, I know a lad who works on Network Rail, he’s on a vast amount more money than me,.so it’s a case of apples and oranges bud.
And he ain’t in charge of 44 tonnes on a road.
Maybe not, but he could be in charge of checking something safety critical that could cause a derailment, or like I was dealing with the overhead wires where not only could it affect the public, but a wrong move could decapitate someone on the shift (seen close misses first hand on that). TBH its a case of apples and oranges when comparing NotWork Rail to the contractors
the nodding donkey:
Oh, and another bucket of water on your bonfire. Drivers are not the only people working long, or unsociable hours…
Try being self employed. Not only having to do the actual work, but also your admin afterwards. If you’re a builder or such, you get the fun pastime of going to peoples houses to do unpaid free estimates. If you use equipment, you suffer when the equipment breaks down. Double, because your income stops, and the money starts to drain…
Or try being on a zero hour contract, at the mersey of a ‘team leader’, never knowing if you will earn enough to pay the rent or feed your kids…
Or, try working g in a factory, doing the same menial task over and over, for 8 or 12 hours, with a half hour 'lunch break" inbetween, and knowing that that is what you’ll be doing, for the rest of your life.
If you think dealing for 10 minutes, once a day, with Doris at goods in is a bit harsh, try working with the public all day… most of you would either be on Valium, or in prison within a year…
If the limper sat next to you in the waiting room is either a bore, or risking knocking you out with his aroma, you can get up and walk away, or tell him what you think. Try that in an office based job.
Most drivers have never done another job, and complain hardest about how hard done they’re by. We, go and try something else. I hear shelf stacking pays more than driving.
I’ve worked in loads of factories ( engineering ) & I don’t remember any 15 /13 hr shifts , most were 6-2 , 2-10 , you never did 15 / 13 hrs on a sat , it was a sat morning , normally 6-12 , all you did was clock in / out , then stood at you machine other when you had your 2 x 15 & 1x30 min break , to suggest folks in factories do any where near the hours we do is wrong in my view / experience of working in various factories
The lad next door who does house maintenance starts leaves home at 7.30 & is home by 15.30 , the lad across the road who is a welder , leaves home 6.30 & is home by 14.30 , bloke over back is a manager does 9-17.00
None are anywhere near the hours I & others do ,
It was my choice to change so I shouldn’t moan though I do , my point is in my experience to compare factory hours etc to the hours lots of lorry drivers work is wrong
I still dont u understand why somebody who works in engineering (even if it’s just glorified fitter), and who by all accounts likes his home and social life, chooses to switch to driving.
I worked in a cardboard packaging factory, (briefly), where we worked 4on-4off, 4 ×12hour shifts. And you worked alternating weeks of day and night shifts.
I wasnt commenting that factory worker work longer hours, but that their job often is soul destroying, and consequently feel (much) longer.
As for the lads in your street, they are (presumably) time served tradesmen. They will always get more per hour. Like engineers…
Truck driving is one of those odd jobs, where, despite all the regulation and planning , you spend most if not all, of the day on your own, sitting on your arse, staring out of the window watching the world go by. And get paid for it
Franglais:
Well…that is a rather peculiar take on things…
The EU comes out with a rule that you think was beneficial.
It was until…
The UK and Sweden get a derogation.
The UK didn’t get it, Sweden did but any derogation is allowed to be used by every nation.
So it is the EU`s fault for allowing some national independence.
No, it’s the EU’s fault for bringing in legislation to protect workers and allowing derogations to be put in to make the whole thing pointless.
You make a good case for less independence there.
Well, you give praise to Johnson`s gov for repealing the derogation that was introduced by the Cameron gov? Fair enough. Maybe pointing to the idiots who introduced it would be equally valid?
If someone has been kicking you for years do you really feel gratitude to the one who stopped doing it?
The idiots who introduced it were the EU. The only person to even be interested in repealing it was the one who finally delivered Brexit. Cameron didn’t give a toss, May didn’t either.
And whilst Boris was at it, and you can thank him for this too, he also changed the way holiday pay is calculated from being the average of the last 12 weeks to the average of the last 12 months so for those whose work follows a seasonal pattern you no longer get shafted if you take holidays after a quiet period.
the nodding donkey:
I still dont u understand why somebody who works in engineering (even if it’s just glorified fitter), and who by all accounts likes his home and social life, chooses to switch to driving.
Precisely because of…
I wasnt commenting that factory worker work longer hours, but that their job often is soul destroying, and consequently feel (much) longer.
Thats why after leaving driving in 2017 to go back to engineering (electronics and mechanical in my case) I managed 10 months before I could stand the tedium no more and returned to driving exactly because…
Truck driving is one of those odd jobs, where, despite all the regulation and planning , you spend most if not all, of the day on your own, sitting on your arse, staring out of the window watching the world go by. And get paid for it
And the fact that no matter what no two days are the same even if you’re doing the same run.
8hrs at work driving a lorry feels like a shorter working day than 8hrs did at the tech job I did.
…especially when the same H&S is rammed down our necks as being essential for far less trivial things.
