What did i do wrong?

[muckles]

If you’re paid by the hour and the assessor says you can’t take a break on a loading bay then take it as company policy and enjoy the extra time sitting on the loading bay enjoying the free time while your tacho sits on other work.

If you’re on a daily rate and you are told not to go on break on the bay, take it as company policy, be careful of trying to get the job done quickly as you might find instead of going home a couple of hours early, you get a “quick” run just to finish off your day.

However on the principle of driver hours regs on breaks, I had exactly the same discussion with a DCPC trainer a couple of week ago, he said you can’t take break on a loading bay, I disagreed with that stating the regs.

A break
A break is any period during which a driver may not carry out any driving or any other work and which is used exclusively for recuperation. A break may be taken in a moving vehicle, provided no other work is undertaken.

No mention of not being in the vehicle while sat stationary, no mention of it not being a break if the vehicle is being unloaded.

The DCPC trainer replied “But I might be asked to move the truck while on break”
Although according to him it’s ok to have a break sat in a driver’s waiting room while your truck is being unloaded on a bay,” Which seemed illogical as you might be asked to leave the waiting room to move the truck.

When I continued to challenge him, he brought out the DVSA say it’s not allowed argument.

At this point I gave up, because I thought the guy was a ■■■■ and I don’t actually do work where I’m sat on loading bays, so the point seemed irrelevant.

To be honest by the end of the course he’d said enough for me to confirm my early opinion of him.

Just to point out I don’t think all DCPC trainers are crap, but out of the 6 that have taken courses I’ve been on, I think 3 weren’t really very good. 1 was excellent and the other 2 were ok.

[muckles]

albion:
To play devils advocate, next minute another company will come in and say, we can do that for £50.00 less than your current supplier and faster. See the Suttons thread.

It’s likely that another company will do that regardless of whether it takes a steady 12 hours or in 8 to 10 hours by pushing the job, so better they come in and expect it done in 10 hours instead of 7.

[robroy]

Just read your first sentence, can’t be arsed to read the details as I got the jist from that alone.
Basically mate you are one of those types who ■■■■ up the job for everyone else, it’s because of people like you that the job has become a rush rush rat race culture.

Presumably your firm had priced up the job to take x no. of hours for x no. of pounds, and were presumably content with that arrangement, but now because of you every body else in your firm will have to join the teararse club.
Nice one !

[franglais]

Don’t some “older” and own account companies have an unspoken agreement between middle managers and drivers. There is a limited amount of work per day. (Getting done early is an advantage to anyo ne). Pay is moderate rather than good. The managers don’t want a series of new drivers arriving then leaving again. Keeping steady old hands on a regular job and letting them get a little extra without involving senior management in getting extra money for better staff.
Not saying it’s good management, but in the real world? Joe Slow who turns in everyday, never has a bump, but maybe takes an extra hours pay? Easy option for all (most) is to let it continue.

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[andy187]

TiredAndEmotional:
What did you do wrong? You cut the job to shreds apparently, that’s why the driver trainer is having a discreet word with you? You work with them so you decide how you’re going to proceed in future.

The previous driver was given the push. or left before he was going to be.

The runs are all on a schedule, which on this run I am on time give or take 15 minutes depending on traffic, and most have you arriving at customers up to an hour before your loading time.

Easy job, all box trailers. And I don’t race about.

Happy doing upto 10 hours a day

[muckles]

Franglais:
Don’t some “older” and own account companies have an unspoken agreement between middle managers and drivers. There is a limited amount of work per day. (Getting done early is an advantage to anyo ne). Pay is moderate rather than good. The managers don’t want a series of new drivers arriving then leaving again. Keeping steady old hands on a regular job and letting them get a little extra without involving senior management in getting extra money for better staff.
Not saying it’s good management, but in the real world? Joe Slow who turns in everyday, never has a bump, but maybe takes an extra hours pay? Easy option for all (most) is to let it continue.

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Most of the Own Account operations that survive these days do so because they offer their customers a higher level of service, drivers that are pushed into rushing the job and a high turnover of drivers is likely to adversely affect the customer satisfaction.

So allowing the drivers a bit of leeway might actually a good thing, but of course it can’t be quantified by your average beancounter, well not until you’ve lost it.

[andy187]

robroy:
Just read your first sentence, can’t be arsed to read the details as I got the jist from that alone.
Basically mate you are one of those types who [zb] up the job for everyone else, it’s because of people like you that the job has become a rush rush rat race culture.

Presumably your firm had priced up the job to take x no. of hours for x no. of pounds, and were presumably content with that arrangement, but now because of you every body else in your firm will have to join the teararse club.
Nice one !

Thanks for your kind words Rob

But re read the above post, I don’t race around, the runs are on a schedule, any problems transport office sort things out. not a cowboy company.

[santa]

I would have thought that the opposite would be the case for most companies. When I worked at Blake’s we had a regular run up to Asda Wakefield (2½ hours) tip and return empty. The tip usually took an hour or so and I was sleeping in the cab. When someone knocked the door with my notes, I would drive round to the Whitwood Truck Stop and take my 45 while eating a late breakfast.

I did a few times and then got hauled in to explain why it took me an hour longer than anyone else. They were waiting for the truck to re-load it and I was holding the job up. I was told in no uncertain terms that I could and should take my break on Asda’s bay. It was no financial loss because I would get 8 hours anyway, but I had to put up with a bacon butty instead of a full English.

[muckles]

andy187:

TiredAndEmotional:
What did you do wrong? You cut the job to shreds apparently, that’s why the driver trainer is having a discreet word with you? You work with them so you decide how you’re going to proceed in future.

The previous driver was given the push. or left before he was going to be.

The runs are all on a schedule, which on this run I am on time give or take 15 minutes depending on traffic, and most have you arriving at customers up to an hour before your loading time.

Easy job, all box trailers. And I don’t race about.

Happy doing upto 10 hours a day

So what is the company schedule for this job and does it involve taking a break on a bay?

[discoman]

muckles:

andy187:

TiredAndEmotional:
What did you do wrong? You cut the job to shreds apparently, that’s why the driver trainer is having a discreet word with you? You work with them so you decide how you’re going to proceed in future.

The previous driver was given the push. or left before he was going to be.

The runs are all on a schedule, which on this run I am on time give or take 15 minutes depending on traffic, and most have you arriving at customers up to an hour before your loading time.

Easy job, all box trailers. And I don’t race about.

Happy doing upto 10 hours a day

So what is the company schedule for this job and does it involve taking a break on a bay?

I really don’t see what the issue is, he says hi mate to the loader, I am going to pop it on a 45 min break whilst you unload is that ok, I won’t be blocking g the bay etc … if they say that’s fine crack on … it’s the drivers who drag the job out whom cause the issues… if they are schedules that are run against, management should be asking why the bloody hell is he taking 12 hours.

[andy187]

discoman:

muckles:

andy187:

TiredAndEmotional:
What did you do wrong? You cut the job to shreds apparently, that’s why the driver trainer is having a discreet word with you? You work with them so you decide how you’re going to proceed in future.

The previous driver was given the push. or left before he was going to be.

The runs are all on a schedule, which on this run I am on time give or take 15 minutes depending on traffic, and most have you arriving at customers up to an hour before your loading time.

Easy job, all box trailers. And I don’t race about.

Happy doing upto 10 hours a day

So what is the company schedule for this job and does it involve taking a break on a bay?

I really don’t see what the issue is, he says hi mate to the loader, I am going to pop it on a 45 min break whilst you unload is that ok, I won’t be blocking g the bay etc … if they say that’s fine crack on … it’s the drivers who drag the job out whom cause the issues… if they are schedules that are run against, management should be asking why the bloody hell is he taking 12 hours.

I think discoman hit nail on head.

Sent from my HTC One A9 using Tapatalk

[muckles]

discoman:

muckles:

andy187:

TiredAndEmotional:
What did you do wrong? You cut the job to shreds apparently, that’s why the driver trainer is having a discreet word with you? You work with them so you decide how you’re going to proceed in future.

The previous driver was given the push. or left before he was going to be.

The runs are all on a schedule, which on this run I am on time give or take 15 minutes depending on traffic, and most have you arriving at customers up to an hour before your loading time.

Easy job, all box trailers. And I don’t race about.

Happy doing upto 10 hours a day

So what is the company schedule for this job and does it involve taking a break on a bay?

I really don’t see what the issue is, he says hi mate to the loader, I am going to pop it on a 45 min break whilst you unload is that ok, I won’t be blocking g the bay etc … if they say that’s fine crack on … it’s the drivers who drag the job out whom cause the issues… if they are schedules that are run against, management should be asking why the bloody hell is he taking 12 hours.

The previous driver took 12 hours, he says he can do it in 10 or less but to do this he takes a break on a bay. Taking a break on a bay isn’t an issue for me, but the company assessor says he can’t take a break on a bay.

So it’s not a question of asking at where he’s tipping but what does the company expect?

[muckles]

andy187:

discoman:

muckles:
So what is the company schedule for this job and does it involve taking a break on a bay?

I really don’t see what the issue is, he says hi mate to the loader, I am going to pop it on a 45 min break whilst you unload is that ok, I won’t be blocking g the bay etc … if they say that’s fine crack on … it’s the drivers who drag the job out whom cause the issues… if they are schedules that are run against, management should be asking why the bloody hell is he taking 12 hours.

I think discoman hit nail on head.

Sent from my HTC One A9 using Tapatalk

So what is your companies schedule for this job?

[robroy]

andy187:

robroy:
Just read your first sentence, can’t be arsed to read the details as I got the jist from that alone.
Basically mate you are one of those types who [zb] up the job for everyone else, it’s because of people like you that the job has become a rush rush rat race culture.

Presumably your firm had priced up the job to take x no. of hours for x no. of pounds, and were presumably content with that arrangement, but now because of you every body else in your firm will have to join the teararse club.
Nice one !

Thanks for your kind words Rob

But re read the above post, I don’t race around, the runs are on a schedule, any problems transport office sort things out. not a cowboy company.

Sorry mate, you asked and that’ s my opinion as I see it.
The other guy did it in 12, if it’s a scheduled 10 hour job (if I’m reading it right) ok maybe he’s taking the ■■■■■
On the other hand you say you can make it into an 8 hour job, why do that if it’s scheduled for 10 ?
All you will achieve (apart from what I said in my last post) is to get more work to do for same money.(I’m assuming here you only do it for the money and not for love or the privelige)
Then one week things don’t go right a couple of times, so then that 10 hour job suddenly turns into an 11 hour job, and on a particular bad day a 12 hour job.

I notice one guy has almost proved my point on here already with his take on it, I’m assuming he drives a desk, so case in point.

So to revert to my original question (a bit more polite this time) why ■■■■ the job up for yourself and everybody else?

The way I see it is this job is as bad as it’s ever been in terms of expectations, the money and what those expectations are from firms for you to earn it.
So if you get a good little number where both drivers and managers are happy, and you are able to do it with little or no stress and hassle, why ■■■■ it up.

[nightline]

robroy:

andy187:

robroy:
Just read your first sentence, can’t be arsed to read the details as I got the jist from that alone.
Basically mate you are one of those types who [zb] up the job for everyone else, it’s because of people like you that the job has become a rush rush rat race culture.

Presumably your firm had priced up the job to take x no. of hours for x no. of pounds, and were presumably content with that arrangement, but now because of you every body else in your firm will have to join the teararse club.
Nice one !

Thanks for your kind words Rob

But re read the above post, I don’t race around, the runs are on a schedule, any problems transport office sort things out. not a cowboy company.

Sorry mate, you asked and that’ s my opinion as I see it.
The other guy did it in 12, if it’s a scheduled 10 hour job (if I’m reading it right) ok maybe he’s taking the ■■■■.
On the other hand you say you can make it into an 8 hour job, why do that if it’s scheduled for 10 ?
All you will achieve (apart from what I said in my last post) is to get more work to do for same money.(I’m assuming here you only do it for the money and not for love or the privelige)
Then one week things don’t go right a couple of times, so then that 10 hour job suddenly turns into an 11 hour job, and on a particular bad day a 12 hour job.

I notice one guy has almost proved my point on here already with his take on it, I’m assuming he drives a desk, so case in point.

So to revert to my original question (a bit more polite this time) why [zb] the job up for yourself and everybody else?

The way I see it is this job is as bad as it’s ever been in terms of expectations, the money and what those expectations are from firms for you to earn it.
So if you get a good little number where both drivers and managerrs are happy, and you are able to do it with little or no stress and hassle, why [zb] it up.

That’s were the day rates ■■■■■ up everything all going mad to get finished early for the same money

[honked]

When the drivers all sit down on a Friday and divvy out a fair share of the wages kitty, then do what they ask.
If that ain’t happening then just worry about earning your own wage.

Those moaning about taking a break on a bay are the ones winging that they can’t get back in time as they have been held up in roadworks.

[truckyboy]

I think the job takes as long as it takes, providing you keep to the schedule as per office/customer requirements…but…with traffic or road works…it can change the times…as for the trainer…i would have told him to do one…as in my mind its none of his business how long a job takes…or whether you take a break on the bay or not…btw it is legal to take a break on a bay, providing you can.

[reef]

Roymondo:

Reef:
It’s very simple.

…

A break is defined as a period during which a driver is able to obtain both rest and refreshment. The break may be on duty or off duty.

Whereabouts in the Regulations is that definition given?

The EU legislation says

‘break’ means any period during which a driver may not carry out any driving or any other work and which is used exclusively for recuperation

To the best of my knowledge there is no mention of being able to get refreshment (ie food or drink).

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Roymondo:
Seems that definition comes from GB Domestic Rules, not the EU Regs.

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Yes you’re quite correct Roymondo, good catch, didn’t realise I’d downloaded the domestic hours .pdf from the Gov site, still if nothing else it highlights one of the major problems faced by any driver new or old, too many rulesets and/or variations of said rules, it’s no wonder we bugger it up at times, though to be fair those two particular descriptions of break didn’t exactly contradict each other.

Thanks for highlighting that for me though I’ll be a little more cautious of what hours I’m actually looking at in the future now

[conor]

robroy:
On the other hand you say you can make it into an 8 hour job, why do that if it’s scheduled for 10 ?
All you will achieve (apart from what I said in my last post) is to get more work to do for same money.(I’m assuming here you only do it for the money and not for love or the privelige)
Then one week things don’t go right a couple of times, so then that 10 hour job suddenly turns into an 11 hour job, and on a particular bad day a 12 hour job.

So to revert to my original question (a bit more polite this time) why [zb] the job up for yourself and everybody else?

So if you get a good little number where both drivers and managers are happy, and you are able to do it with little or no stress and hassle, why [zb] it up.

I have this. I go to a place we get given a calculated time to do the run which is generous beyond belief. Some drivers do right up to the minute hanging the bag out, I do the job in the time it takes to do it properly and without cutting corners, rushing around or exceeding the speed limit which is usually under the time on the sheet by around half an hour a day but occassionally I’ll end up going over. The supervisors have always said that the time on the run sheet is merely is a guide line.

The reason I don’t pad it out because I have a life outside of work and I value that more than anything. I don’t live to work, I work to live. I’m not up to my eyeballs in debt or struggling for money to the point where an extra £6 or £12 is more important than an extra 30 minutes or an hour at home with my family.

I know it may be a strange concept for you to grasp given your life seems to revolve around your job but that’s not the case for a growing number of us.

[reef]

To all the “he’s carving the job up” crew, have a word with yourselves you bunch of Hilda Ogdens ffs!

I caught up to and was following one of my brethren the other night and I decided to sit behind him as we weren’t that far from our exit so seemed little point doing the creep past so close to our junction, so as I got up behind him I knocked the CC off a couple of clicks… then a couple more… then quite a few more, I ended up following him at 46 mph for over 2 miles…

We were both returning to base, both empty and we were on a practically empty Motorway.

Now we all know that he was just making sure not to get back to base too early, just in case he got handed another run or something, that’s fair enough, that’s his decision and choice and I’ve no problem with that, but at what point would I be considered as “carving the job up” if I did his run and drove back at 48, 50, 52, 54 or god forbid the heady high speeds of 56 mph (the majority of our units are capable of sustaining 55 - 56 quite well).

There is no way on this Earth will I ever drive up/down the motorways of Great Britain at 46mph just to not risk “carving the job up” for the other drivers, jog on!

But on the flipside I would not put it on break whilst actually unloading (and by that I mean actually me unloading not Kevin the warehouse kid on the ride on pallet truck) just to get 45 mins further along either.