I think the only armchair lawyer is the one effectively saying to ignore it as it’s only a letter…
Roymondo:
I think the only armchair lawyer is the one effectively saying to ignore it as it’s only a letter…
Is he obliged…
To fill it in? No he’s not.
You don’t have to be a solicitor to see that. Where does it say ‘failure to declare anything is an offence’?
rb1889:
Where was the road closed, if your delivery was on Via Gellia I’m confused how you’ve managed to go down West Bank (and presumably through Winster) and then back up 90 minutes later, when it’s in the opposite direction
Delivery before was in pikehall, 5012 said closed no through route leading to via gellia so had to go towards village. Right turn down Moor Lane back towards via gallia was also closed. Came to 3t except for access so went through village as the traffic was heavy and I delivery point was just after the village. Went through village and back out this way. Would usually come in through via gellia up through matlock but even coming this way your going through 7.5t so what am I supposed to do [emoji85]
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Monkey241:
What does ‘you do not have to say anything’ mean if not a reference to the right of silence?
Fair point…
It does state that. Therefore, keep schtum. Why help them? If it was a NIP or a copper waiting for me at the yard charging me with the offence of blah blah blah, I’d be taking notice but, this is a fishing expedition.
One small bullet over the trench and you lot wave the white flag.
yourhavingalarf:
Monkey241:
What does ‘you do not have to say anything’ mean if not a reference to the right of silence?Fair point…
It does state that. Therefore, keep schtum. Why help them? If it was a NIP or a copper waiting for me at the yard charging me with the offence of blah blah blah, I’d be taking notice but, this is a fishing expedition.
One small bullet over the trench and you lot wave the white flag.
Might just write a letter and send the blank forms back with it, certainly not giving them my personal details and details of customers I’ve delivered too.
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ag1992:
rb1889:
Where was the road closed, if your delivery was on Via Gellia I’m confused how you’ve managed to go down West Bank (and presumably through Winster) and then back up 90 minutes later, when it’s in the opposite directionDelivery before was in pikehall, 5012 said closed no through route leading to via gellia so had to go towards village. Right turn down Moor Lane back towards via gallia was also closed. Came to 3t except for access so went through village as the traffic was heavy and I delivery point was just after the village. Went through village and back out this way. Would usually come in through via gellia up through matlock but even coming this way your going through 7.5t so what am I supposed to do [emoji85]
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You’re kinda answering your own question. yes you did go along that route and it was for access. Presumably, the location was within West Bank, so it matters not if you travelled up/down the road (Naff wording as that has no real direction, but that’s for another post). You can choose to answer only the provisional Qs that satisfy that you were getting access in accordance with the sign and leave the others blank. In essence, if you make no reply, they could prosecute as they have the prima facia evidence (photo) and you can lodge your comments at court, or answer enough of the letter so that it scuppers their case.
if you are still deliberating what to do, speak to the company or get independent legal advise. IMHO, doing nothing is just waiting for a heap of faffing about that can be so easily avoided.
ag1992:
rb1889:
Where was the road closed, if your delivery was on Via Gellia I’m confused how you’ve managed to go down West Bank (and presumably through Winster) and then back up 90 minutes later, when it’s in the opposite directionDelivery before was in pikehall, 5012 said closed no through route leading to via gellia so had to go towards village. Right turn down Moor Lane back towards via gallia was also closed. Came to 3t except for access so went through village as the traffic was heavy and I delivery point was just after the village. Went through village and back out this way. Would usually come in through via gellia up through matlock but even coming this way your going through 7.5t so what am I supposed to do [emoji85]
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You don’t make much sense and I live here .
Punchy Dan:
ag1992:
rb1889:
Where was the road closed, if your delivery was on Via Gellia I’m confused how you’ve managed to go down West Bank (and presumably through Winster) and then back up 90 minutes later, when it’s in the opposite directionDelivery before was in pikehall, 5012 said closed no through route leading to via gellia so had to go towards village. Right turn down Moor Lane back towards via gallia was also closed. Came to 3t except for access so went through village as the traffic was heavy and I delivery point was just after the village. Went through village and back out this way. Would usually come in through via gellia up through matlock but even coming this way your going through 7.5t so what am I supposed to do [emoji85]
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You don’t make much sense and I live here .
What’s so hard to understand about via gellia being closed no through road and Moor Lane back to via gellia having the same signs up so couldn’t go back to via gellia. Normally we would go down via gellia through matlock and back up past the dfs warehouse but even this way is through a 7.5t limit. Better now?
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Just tell them you paid £400 for a lorry sat nav , and if they’ve a issue with the route you took take it up with snooper / Tom Tom etc
yourhavingalarf:
Monkey241:
What does ‘you do not have to say anything’ mean if not a reference to the right of silence?Fair point…
It does state that. Therefore, keep schtum. Why help them? If it was a NIP or a copper waiting for me at the yard charging me with the offence of blah blah blah, I’d be taking notice but, this is a fishing expedition.
One small bullet over the trench and you lot wave the white flag.
Why help them?
There’s a time for no comment. This isn’t it.
This is the time to mount a defence.
No comment now means paying the fine - even if there’s good reason to get off with it.
Very very stupid advice by you
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ag1992:
Might just write a letter and send the blank forms back with it, certainly not giving them my personal details and details of customers I’ve delivered too.
Was it sent…
Recorded delivery? How do they know you even recieved it? I’m not saying ignore it or shred it, I am saying it’s up to them to do the work, not you.
As I’ve said previously, they’re on a fishing expedition. I sure as hell wouldn’t be helping them to prosecute myself. You fill that form in and any defence you might have had, you’ve just thrown away. If they persist and you want your day in court to fight it, then do that.
yourhavingalarf:
ag1992:
Might just write a letter and send the blank forms back with it, certainly not giving them my personal details and details of customers I’ve delivered too.Was it sent…
Recorded delivery? How do they know you even recieved it? I’m not saying ignore it or shred it, I am saying it’s up to them to do the work, not you.
As I’ve said previously, they’re on a fishing expedition. I sure as hell wouldn’t be helping them to prosecute myself. You fill that form in and any defence you might have had, you’ve just thrown away. If they persist and you want your day in court to fight it, then do that.
“Any defence you might have had…”
Read the bloody caution again ffs
Then look up what an adverse inference is and how it can harm your defence.
Personally after years dealing with investigations I’d return the letter with any evidence as to why I HAD TO use that road.
If it WAS the only access route, this won’t go any further.
But sure… don’t say anything and have your day in court. The penalty when guilt is decided at court is invariably far higher.
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Monkey241:
ffs
Calm down…
Rational discussion. They’re on a fishing expedition. If they insist on persuing it then they have to come up with more than ‘please fill in this form’. They have to come up with (and you’ll know this better than me) ‘It is alleged that you did blah blah blah in the county of blah blah’, in other words a NIP or some notice of further action. Right now, all it says is, ‘please help us to nick you’.
Monkey241:
But sure… don’t say anything and have your day in court. The penalty when guilt is decided at court is invariably far higher.
Sadly, you’re right. If you stand up in court and fight then lose you, will face a harsher penalty. No finer example of how democracy has been chipped away at over the decades by various governments.
yourhavingalarf:
Monkey241:
ffsCalm down…
Rational discussion. They’re on a fishing expedition. If they insist on persuing it then they have to come up with more than ‘please fill in this form’. They have to come up with (and you’ll know this better than me) ‘It is alleged that you did blah blah blah in the county of blah blah’, in other words a NIP or some notice of further action. Right now, all it says is, ‘please help us to nick you’.
Monkey241:
But sure… don’t say anything and have your day in court. The penalty when guilt is decided at court is invariably far higher.Sadly, you’re right. If you stand up in court and fight then lose you, will face a harsher penalty. No finer example of how democracy has been chipped away at over the decades by various governments.
It isn’t a fishing expedition since they have definitive evidence of the offence.
All that effectively remains is whether there is a defence or mitigation.
As for rational discussion and calming down? You’re giving ■■■■■ advice which will simply prolong the inevitable.
IF he has evidence that this WAS the only route, a response now kills it dead.
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Is there any kind of time limit they can send these types of letters? Isn’t it 14 days for police so what’s the difference with these chancers?
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Monkey241:
All that effectively remains is whether there is a defence or mitigation.
There appears…
To be no area on the form where that’s possible.
If it was that important, the letter would have been sent using the ‘signed for’ service,it wasn’t.
Remember he’s innocent until proven guilty.
Let them prove it.
I’m out. You may have the last word.
To the OP, seek some sort of advice, I’m not a brief, I’m not trained in law but right now, they ain’t got ■■■■ mate.
yourhavingalarf:
Monkey241:
All that effectively remains is whether there is a defence or mitigation.There appears…
To be no area on the form where that’s possible.
If it was that important, the letter would have been sent using the ‘signed for’ service,it wasn’t.
Remember he’s innocent until proven guilty.
Let them prove it.
I’m out. You may have the last word.
To the OP, seek some sort of advice, I’m not a brief, I’m not trained in law but right now, they ain’t got [zb] mate.
You were out about 3 posts ago.
He’s either guilty of the offence or he isn’t. At the moment he simply hasn’t been found guilty yet.
As for space on the form? That doesn’t prevent him enclosing any evidence he has.
It’s logic like yours that started the move to offences being more heavily punished in court.
Oh, did he say it wasn’t delivered registered post? And NIPs aren’t signed for either.
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Although it is too late, he should have decided not to go down the road, and if possible phoned the customer and said sorry I can’t do the delivery is there anyway you can come and meet me and collect it from me. Failing that he should phone his boss and let him sort it out
peirre:
Although it is too late, he should have decided not to go down the road, and if possible phoned the customer and said sorry I can’t do the delivery is there anyway you can come and meet me and collect it from me. Failing that he should phone his boss and let him sort it out
Except when the sign says "except for access ", in which case you are allowed to travel down such road.
No need to be an obstructive duck.
The concerned citizen noticed a big lorry on a restricted road, and not knowing that it had legitimate business being there, took a pic and shopped him to Trading standards. Trading standards now need to know why he was on that restricted road.
Just explain it, and add a copy of the delivery note.
ag1992:
Is there any kind of time limit they can send these types of letters? Isn’t it 14 days for police so what’s the difference with these chancers?Sent from my SM-A217F using Tapatalk
Summary offence is to lay a summons within six months of offence and an NIP offence is quite specific and this isn’t one of them…