Was I Right ?

[robb39]

Another logical fallacy;

Emotional Appeals

Description: Appeals to Fear, Pity or Loyalty (among others). Emotions are not always irrelevant in making good decisions. Feelings of compassion and love, among others, can be quite relevant to a given issue.

You may have good reason for setting out on a particular course of action on account of your compassion for a group of people. When one bases an entire argument on “scare-tactics”, black-mail or an attempt to garner sympathy because of the current state of the arguer, then the argument fails.

Because emotions, while powerful motivators, do not constitute logical grounds for believing one thing or another.

Example: “If we don’t do something now about the rampant expansion of Gordon Brown’s agenda, this country is going to be a Third World nation in just a couple years.”

Or

If you love me, you’d go and do … such and such." A typical ‘woman’ argument with no logic in it whatsoever!!

[bikemonkey]

robB39 has my vote for talking the most sense in this whole debate.

I think a lot of you should be drinking Babycham in a Gay bar in Brighton.
This country gets more pathetic by the day

[paul261267]

Lucy:
And no, self defence doesn’t cut it - that’s just lowering yourself to the same level. [/i]

May I just add at this point there IS a defence in law, for self defence.

There is a little known activity called the “pre-emptive strike” only to be used as a last resort when you BELIEVE you will be attacked by a person or persons, whereby you can get the first punch in. Has to be “reasonable” though. I wouldn’t recommend using it though unless you are ■■■■ sure you WILL be attacked.

As for the original post though, I am 100% certain that Lady P did the right thing in making her complaint, who knows what might have happened next time around had she not done so?

[newmercman]

if this is about you being a woman then an emphatic NO, can’t say i’d run to my boss if the big boys were picking on me, deal with it yourself, FFS it’s a rough & tumble lifestyle this lorry driving lark, if it was ■■■■■■ harrassment then it’s a different story altogether, but I’m sure we’ve all said or done something that’s crossed the line a few times, not ■■■■■■■■, but I’ve had loudmouths really get my goat before, sometimes you can deal with it there & then, sometimes you have to wait it out. it’s life

[bloodoodle]

Women;… It’s a mans industry, join it, don’t try and change it!!!

RobB39, how right you are.

I read this thread the first time around, and now it’s been ressurected have just read it all again.

At the risk of getting the wrath of all the women drivers ( and some of the men) on here, I have to agree with RobB39…IMHO LadyP was wrong to go to the management.

As a female driver I’ve been on the brunt end of that type of thing in the past, and I’m afraid my immediate reaction would have been a very sharp nudge backwards in his ribs followed by my temper telling him, in no uncertain terms, NEVER to do that to me again.

I prefer to handle my own personal differences at work and it would never sit easy with my conscience to lose someone their job whatever the circumstances.

Sorry Lucy …bet we’ll have a good discussion on the phone about this one this week

Pat
.

[deepinvet]

Well said Pat.
I hate all forms of bullying, but often a swift kick in the nuts works wonders!!

[Lucy]

Sorry Lucy …bet we’ll have a good discussion on the phone about this one this week

No doubt. Will look forward to it.

I have a vague recollection of this being talked about in chat in far greater detail than here, so I think that coloured my view as to whether this was an attempted ■■■■■■ assault or banter which got out of hand - an opinion which isn’t necessarily helpful to the thread as not all that information is here. 'Twas a while ago, mind…

I also hold my hands up and admit to having a somewhat biased view on this one due to an experience of my own as a teenager. So maybe I’m not the best person to be judging, as looking through the thread I do seem to be jumping down a road that I would not normally take when thinking about gender-related issues within the industry.

Maybe the most interesting thing to come out of this from my own point of view is just how easy it is to throw principle to the wind when faced with an emotive subject. Kind of embarrassing to see how willing I was to do that first time around.

Since I can’t remember the details from chat I’ll go and reread properly and see if I feel any differently now time has passed…

[nej]

There have been a lot of posts about this subject some saying she did the right thing and some say not.

Something that has not been said is the record of harassment from this character to her or other female members of staff, has she been on the receiving end of this behaviour for some time and as she said he got a swift thump from her but (although she did something I have never done no matter what the problem) she went to her boss to as she said “have him spoken to” but things went downhill from then on for the guy.

There is still the culture of this is a mans world / job but that doesn,t mean women have to be treated like men and act like them as one post said what would you do if it was your wife, turn a blind eye and laugh it off as a joke, I don,t think so!

This person said she didn,t want to get the guy the sack but once it became a report to management they were obliged to take action and as some say a bit OTT bit until we have ALL the facts then we can,t be judge & jury.

She the same as any other member of staff have a right not to be molested or threatened by other members of staff and the company have to ensure this,as they would be failing in their duty to their employees and could fall foul of the law for not dealing with it in a proper manner as their are lots of solicitors working on a no win no fee basis to fight these claims for people who want “justice and money”.

[deepinvet]

I don’t see this as a gender issue, this is plain and simply a case of BULLYING in the work place! If someone did that to me I would (I am male) put him on his arse!
I HATE all types of bullying. If the accussed has a problem with this, then let him take the company to a tribunal.
This is sad but it happens all to often these days in the work place, and it is happening more and more to the Poles and all the other migrant workers that only come to our country to try and better themselves, they get bullied by so called good Brit drivers there was a thread recently about this, something like ‘Should I help’■■?
I hate all types of bullying, being only 5’ 5’ i’ve had my fair share but they only try once!
Have I gone off on one■■? Yes, but hey ho that’s life.
SMc

[melchett]

Lady P:
Last week a driver was sacked because of me

There was a inceident in the yard which i was unhappy with, 1 of the drivers bent me over from behind, or tried too

How anyone can find this “acceptable” is beyond me.

Whenever men & women work together there will always be banter, flirting & ■■■■■■ innuendo… & I think you will find that women are just as good at it as men. All good fun & makes the day go faster

But, there is a line you don’t cross & this neanderthal went way over & got what he deserved! If he’d done the same thing in say a pub he could have been facing criminal charges… I reckon he got off lightly

[robb39]

Melchett:
How anyone can find this “acceptable” is beyond me.

It is NOT acceptable, nobody as said it was have they?
The perpetrator must have done, as his social interactive skills were a bit distorted and needed correcting.

Melchett:
Whenever men & women work together there will always be banter, flirting & ■■■■■■ innuendo… & I think you will find that women are just as good at it as men. All good fun & makes the day go faster

Exactly

Melchett:
But, there is a line you don’t cross & this neanderthal went way over & got what he deserved! If he’d done the same thing in say a pub he could have been facing criminal charges… I reckon he got off lightly

He depends on your relationship with the person who is being subjected to it…
It also depends on how the recipient feels about it.

Thats just it; it’s a very fine line. - In my opinion he was out of order.

But saying he got what he deserved is a pretty harsh judgement to make or do you know the guy??!! :

My argument is not defending him for acting like a ricardo cranium. But if you are in a MANS job expect that sort of thing.

Don’t be overly sensitive. Explain the person is out of order, you have had enough of said behaviour (You z-bing zebedee what woman would want to go near such an tactless numb zber like you. What would your missus think about you behaving like that? ) retaliate with kick in shin or a thump etc. Then quietly (when things have calmed down) explain why he was out of order accept apology and hopefully everyone will be happy.

If not move onto the next step. When all steps are exhausted. And said perpetrator proves to be complete ricardo cranium then get the Zber the SACK!!

[melchett]

robB39:
It is NOT acceptable, nobody as said it was have they?

But you are implying it’s acceptable when you say this…

robB39:
But if you are in a MANS job expect that sort of thing.

It’s not a “mans job”, it’s A JOB &, unless you’ve been locked in a cave for the last 20 years you will know that women are branching out & daring to be plumbers,bus drivers,truckers… Oh the horror.

Melchett:
But, there is a line you don’t cross & this neanderthal went way over & got what he deserved! If he’d done the same thing in say a pub he could have been facing criminal charges… I reckon he got off lightly

robB39:
He depends on your relationship with the person who is being subjected to it…

Really? Under what circumstances would it then be acceptable?

robB39:
It also depends on how the recipient feels about it.

She didn’t seem to be too impressed!

robB39:
Thats just it; it’s a very fine line. - In my opinion he was out of order.

It’s not a fine line, it’s a 3 lane motorway… if a woman wants you to touch her it’s pretty bleeding obvious, until then it’s HANDS OFF & no excuses.

robB39:
But saying he got what he deserved is a pretty harsh judgement to make or do you know the guy??!! :

Nope don’t know him, don’t want to either. Based on what I know from reading this thread I stand by what I said. If there are other facts I don’t know then I might change my opinion.

robB39:
Don’t be overly sensitive. Explain the person is out of order, you have had enough of said behaviour (You z-bing zebedee what woman would want to go near such an tactless numb zber like you. What would your missus think about you behaving like that? ) retaliate with kick in shin or a thump etc. Then quietly (when things have calmed down) explain why he was out of order accept apology and hopefully everyone will be happy.
If not move onto the next step. When all steps are exhausted. And said perpetrator proves to be complete ricardo cranium then get the Zber the SACK!!

I’m not overly sensitive, this is a case of bullying at best… ■■■■■■ assault at worst! Just because it happened in the work place doesn’t make it any more acceptable than if it happened in the park,pub,street etc. Why should anyone have to resort to violence in their day to day work to fend off retards?

[lady_p]

Yes the guy was sacked but it was not the first time he had done something similar to me in the yard and yes I did thump him and he did land on his backside and yes I did ask him not to do that again

There was more than 1 witness to this but none of them would speak up as it is a small firm ( 10 of us aprox ) this happened in the morning but it was late in the afternoon when the boss asked me if everything was ok that is when I told him of this

The TM has worked with this male on / off for some 20 years so knows him and he said it was not the first time he had sone something like that he was well known for it

I would normally deal with things myself but this was 1 step to far and I will give as good as I get as i am the only female there no I did not want the guy to be sacked but for the boss to have a word as nobody else was going to

[newmercman]

That’s the spirit Lady P, this is predominantly a male environment, think about it the other way, if blokes were working in a female environment we’d have to adapt & we’ve all heard tales of a factory full of women embarrassing young lads

I’m not saying that what this driver did is right but a kick in the nuts would’ve sorted it once & for all, sometimes you need to speak to people in a language that they understand

You could also call his bluff & watch him backtrack big time, or tell everybody that he has a tiny todger, that’d shut him up

[nej]

As “LadyP” has said “He Has Done it before” and this time was once to many, whether it was a male environment or not is irrelevant he chose to step over the line and was dealt with IMHO the right way as he obviously hasn,t learned his lesson from previous encounters.

Did he think that as he got away with it before there was something he was trying to do and take it further than harassment, such as a ■■■■■■ encounter / relationship only he knows the answer to that one?

[robb39]

Melchett:

robB39:
It is NOT acceptable, nobody as said it was have they?

But you are implying it’s acceptable when you say this…

robB39:
But if you are in a MANS job expect that sort of thing.

It’s not a “mans job”, it’s A JOB &, unless you’ve been locked in a cave for the last 20 years you will know that women are branching out & daring to be plumbers,bus drivers,truckers… Oh the horror.

Melchett:
But, there is a line you don’t cross & this neanderthal went way over & got what he deserved! If he’d done the same thing in say a pub he could have been facing criminal charges… I reckon he got off lightly

robB39:
He depends on your relationship with the person who is being subjected to it…

Really? Under what circumstances would it then be acceptable?

robB39:
It also depends on how the recipient feels about it.

She didn’t seem to be too impressed!

robB39:
Thats just it; it’s a very fine line. - In my opinion he was out of order.

It’s not a fine line, it’s a 3 lane motorway… if a woman wants you to touch her it’s pretty bleeding obvious, until then it’s HANDS OFF & no excuses.

robB39:
But saying he got what he deserved is a pretty harsh judgement to make or do you know the guy??!! :

Nope don’t know him, don’t want to either. Based on what I know from reading this thread I stand by what I said. If there are other facts I don’t know then I might change my opinion.

robB39:
Don’t be overly sensitive. Explain the person is out of order, you have had enough of said behaviour (You z-bing zebedee what woman would want to go near such an tactless numb zber like you. What would your missus think about you behaving like that? ) retaliate with kick in shin or a thump etc. Then quietly (when things have calmed down) explain why he was out of order accept apology and hopefully everyone will be happy.
If not move onto the next step. When all steps are exhausted. And said perpetrator proves to be complete ricardo cranium then get the Zber the SACK!!

I’m not overly sensitive, this is a case of bullying at best… ■■■■■■ assault at worst! Just because it happened in the work place doesn’t make it any more acceptable than if it happened in the park,pub,street etc. Why should anyone have to resort to violence in their day to day work to fend off retards?

YAAAAWN Not been out much with lads then??

OR any stag parties■■?

I suppose with an attitude like that you’ve ‘shopped’ in all your mates■■?

[melchett]

robB39:
YAAAAWN Not been out much with lads then??

OR any stag parties■■?

I suppose with an attitude like that you’ve ‘shopped’ in all your mates■■?

That it?? I expected better to be honest. But then again… pretty typical of the knuckle-dragging apes in society.
I wonder if you treat your wife/girlfriend the same way, she’s one lucky lady

[lady_p]

bloodoodle:

Women;… It’s a mans industry, join it, don’t try and change it!!!

As a female driver I’ve been on the brunt end of that type of thing in the past, and I’m afraid my immediate reaction would have been a very sharp nudge backwards in his ribs followed by my temper telling him, in no uncertain terms, NEVER to do that to me again.

Pat
.

Pat if you read my post I did try to deal with it as he had done similar a few month earlier which the boss did not know about

When I did hit him he just look at me and said “what have I done wrong” when the boss questioned him a day later and he then realized to was getting sacked that is when he apologized to the boss and TM NOT me

But I do think the boss was looking for an excuse to fire him

You can say what you like as "A rose by any other name " but please keep your hands to your self

I did try to avoid this driver

[melchett]

Lady P:
but please keep your hands to your self

Spot on

[ohterry]

Lady P:

bloodoodle:

Women;… It’s a mans industry, join it, don’t try and change it!!!

As a female driver I’ve been on the brunt end of that type of thing in the past, and I’m afraid my immediate reaction would have been a very sharp nudge backwards in his ribs followed by my temper telling him, in no uncertain terms, NEVER to do that to me again.

Pat
.

Pat if you read my post I did try to deal with it as he had done similar a few month earlier which the boss did not know about

When I did hit him he just look at me and said “what have I done wrong” when the boss questioned him a day later and he then realized to was getting sacked that is when he apologized to the boss and TM NOT me

But I do think the boss was looking for an excuse to fire him

You can say what you like as "A rose by any other name " but please keep your hands to your self

I did try to avoid this driver

[zb]

think b4 u post.

Edited for personal attack. Perhaps take your own advice? L.