P Stoff:
Anyone else get to the end of that? [emoji2]
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I skim read, skim read, like an article you read in a mag at the dentists. Google is great. Allows you to pick up loads of stuff you had no clue on last week, dice it out on a thread, sprinkle a few phrases like ‘upon analysis’ and you can play let’s pretend. You’re a knowledgable engineer having some sort of debate with other specialists at an inquest hearing on some catastrophic failure. It’s fascinating watching. Not the panicked googled knowledge, just the way people play. I’m waiting for the blurt ‘I refer you to the paper I published…’
Bking:
A truck engine at idle (about 5/600 rpm) will never produce enough heat to warm the 50 or 60 litres of coolant to anywhere near 85 degrees centigrade.It may heat up the coolant in the head to about this temperature but it will never warm the block galleries to any where near.Plus you have the flow to the cab heater matrix if the heating is on which is independent of the thermostats as it is fed direct from the cylinder head by water pump pressure which will circulate coolant around the block,heads and heater.Leave the vehicle at tickover turn the heater up full and turn on the blower.The heater matrix alone is more than enough to keep an idling engine cool and it wont even crack the stats to pass coolant round the rad.You will feel the air temperature from the heater drop in a couple of minutes because your taking more heat out than the engine at idle can put back into the coolant.
An idling engine supposedly puts less heat into the coolant than the heater takes out.So as not to upset Dave any further I’ll let nmm answer that total bs.
I drove a DAF for several years. You had to run the engine for 7 or 8 minutes. You couldn’t stop it with the exhaust brake or stall the engine until you had enough air pressure, it was easier to start the engine, count your wheels and have a ■■■■, then climb on top of the trailer and sweep ice and snow off the roof before driving off [emoji23]
P Stoff:
Anyone else get to the end of that? [emoji2]
Sent from my SM-J510FN using Tapatalk
I skim read, skim read, like an article you read in a mag at the dentists. Google is great. Allows you to pick up loads of stuff you had no clue on last week, dice it out on a thread, sprinkle a few phrases like ‘upon analysis’ and you can play let’s pretend. You’re a knowledgable engineer having some sort of debate with other specialists at an inquest hearing on some catastrophic failure. It’s fascinating watching. Not the panicked googled knowledge, just the way people play. I’m waiting for the blurt ‘I refer you to the paper I published…’
I didn’t google anything except very half-heartedly for “honing” (as a principle, rather than as specifically applied to a combustion engine), while I was working out exactly how it helps retain oil between moving parts - and what I read didn’t answer that question (and I’ve therefore made my own assumptions).
However I guess on reflection it might be a bit self-indulgent to write at such length on pistons vs hydraulic rams.
Rjan:
This gets me thinking, nowadays mechanical engineering is seen as like baking a cake, but engines incorporate enormously complex physical processes. This is a prime example, where if you’d asked me what the role of oil was in an engine, I’d have said lubrication, without ever considering its (more minor) function as a gas seal - as well as cooling, cleaning, noise reduction, and probably other desirable side effects.
Which leaves the question how does putting the extra fuelling associated with load into the cold warming cylinder supposedly have a beneficial effect regarding diesel wash.As opposed to the lesser fuelling associated with idling when put into the same cold warming cylinder ?.Not to mention the far greater forces being applied to the compromised lubrication ability of the oil by applying load to the engine before it’s reached its optimum working temperature,including bearing surfaces and piston to bore thrust interface ?.This is all basic mechanical knowledge that our fathers taught us.IE don’t thrash a cold engine and ideally let it idle until the thermostat starts to open at which point the engine is near enough at its operating temperature for the radiator to do its job.Which means might as well get the vehicle moving.
No one disputes the principle of driving gently to avoid putting excessive load on the engine - at all temperatures, whether warm or not.
It comes down to the question of how much extra wear is caused driving away from cold (with modest throttle) versus waiting at idle for the engine to warm up. Nobody, here or anywhere, seems to have any figures.
Nowadays I suspect the difference in wear is negligible, and my personal opinion is that the extra time and fuel wasted is not worthwhile - unless your engine is so under-specified for its use that it is impossible to drive competently at modest throttle (relevant perhaps to those engaging in heavy haulage, who have to make do with standard engines designed and built for lighter duty), or the engine is so old and cherished (and prone to wear at a much higher rate anyway by virtue of bygone metalworking and manufacturing techniques) that a completely different calculation applies to the fuel and time cost against the wear caused.
The same is true of polishing the car paintwork really. It used to be that paintwork was visibly degraded in 10 years without special care. Nowadays, better paints mean it’s not even worth the effort - by time the paintwork looks out of order from any lack of care, the car will be on the scrapheap, and by just letting it be, you’ve saved yourself all that back-breaking polishing on a Saturday morning.
Says this in my car manual. So Carryfast is disagreeing directly with this from German engineers. I suspect this won’t lead to any agreement . I’ll stick with my manual.
Freight Dog:
Says this in my car manual. So Carryfast is disagreeing directly with this from German engineers. I suspect this won’t lead to any agreement . I’ll stick with my manual.
From German engineers, or from German lawyers? Allowing a vehicle engine to idle unnecessarily is Verboten under German law (for environmental reasons) and I suspect the handbook advice may even be required to reflect this.
Freight Dog:
Says this in my car manual. So Carryfast is disagreeing directly with this from German engineers. I suspect this won’t lead to any agreement . I’ll stick with my manual.
From German engineers, or from German lawyers? Allowing a vehicle engine to idle unnecessarily is Verboten under German law (for environmental reasons) and I suspect the handbook advice may even be required to reflect this.
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I suspect not personally. This same advice appears in manuals, for many types of vehicle manufactured in many countries and advice isn’t New. It also was the advice and supporting technical reasons, given by a world leading engine rebuilder and engine research company for my car. So that advice wasn’t from lawyers either.
There are two things I never do, one is buy a toothpaste recommended by dentists and the other is listen to manufacturer’s recommendations on engine life, both for the same reason.
If the toothpaste works, the dentist is out of work.
If the lorry lasts forever, you won’t buy a replacement.
newmercman:
There are two things I never do, one is buy a toothpaste recommended by dentists and the other is listen to manufacturer’s recommendations on engine life, both for the same reason.
Amen.
This applies so much to cars with silly outlandish engine oil service intervals, and, wait for it, sealed for life transmissions apparently never needing an oil change, all designed to keep leasing fleet costs down, with the worse offenders sticking rigidly to their measly 3 year warranties, you don’t hear of Toyota or Honda or Kia/Hyundai recommending 20k service intervals or suggesting the gear oil should never be inspected or changed.
newmercman:
There are two things I never do, one is buy a toothpaste recommended by dentists and the other is listen to manufacturer’s recommendations on engine life, both for the same reason.
If the toothpaste works, the dentist is out of work.
If the lorry lasts forever, you won’t buy a replacement.
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I’ve had the same advice from an engineering firm who were not the manufacturer. Or may be they’re in on it too? Granted, some of the reasons were specific to that car, but the reasons that weren’t I’ve listed at the beginning.
Why? It’s a thread on a seemingly simple technical topic that has some complex aspects, so not remarkable it would spark 6 pages of discussion. Some threads on trolls run to pages on here. Less ridiculous ?
Why? It’s a thread on a seemingly simple technical topic that has some complex aspects, so not remarkable it would spark 6 pages of discussion. Some threads on trolls run to pages on here. Less ridiculous ?
You do know that you don’t have to read every post on here right?
You can just look through stuff that you don’t find ridiculous, give it a try, you never know…
Why? It’s a thread on a seemingly simple technical topic that has some complex aspects, so not remarkable it would spark 6 pages of discussion. Some threads on trolls run to pages on here. Less ridiculous ?
You do know that you don’t have to read every post on here right?
You can just look through stuff that you don’t find ridiculous, give it a try, you never know…
Carryfast:
… So as not to upset Dave any further I’ll let nmm answer that total bs.
Carryfast, I’m not upset at all.
I marvel at your ability.
To be fair I’m still trying to get my head around the idea of there being no thermostat in an oil cooler. Either I’ve just imagined it’s there or Biking is wrong.Or Euro truck manufacturers just haven’t heard of the idea yet.
Now don’t say that I get all ‘my’ information from google.Because if ‘I’ didn’t know the thing existed I obviously wouldn’t have known that I’d find it at all when I just used google to ‘confirm’ it. Maybe Biking has just learned a bit more about how to fix a truck using my knowledge just ‘confirmed’ by using that new fangled thing the interweb.
If not maybe the Euro truck makers have actually forgotten to use an essential part in the oil coooler line which I knew about but they didn’t.
. I’ll stick with my manual.
Either I’ve just imagined it’s there or Biking is wrong.Or Euro truck manufacturers just haven’t heard of the idea yet.