newmercman:
It’s all getting a bit apples to oranges on here, people are talking about cars, big yards that take 15mins to get to the gate.
I assume that’s a reference to what I’ve said. To be honest, it wasn’t solely the size of the yard that I had in mind when I talked about 15 minutes to the give way line - although some larger yards with low speed limits do take quite a few minutes just to navigate. It’s all the arsing around on the site itself - moving the vehicle around the site, finding the trailer and coupling up, loading the trailer, queueing, opening gates (whether by hand, or waiting for some slow automatic gate to move, or waiting for the gateman to react, etc.). Not all factors are present at every yard, but I’m damned if I can think of any yard where you consistently shot right out of the gate - even those yards that were set up so that sometimes it could happen that you could turn the key and be straight out onto the road, it really doesn’t happen most of the time in those places, let alone in the majority of yards.
And in those cases where it has happened sometimes, it wasn’t straight out onto the motorway at 56mph, it was straight out into an industrial area at relatively low speeds (and idling at various junctions) for at least several minutes more before you were anywhere that would allow you to do more than 30mph.
Me, I’m talking about my specific circumstances, which is why I mention the weight I run at, because it’s a factor, a very important one too.
I’m currently sat in a truckstop, I’m grossing just under 60ton, it’s -15c outside and my engine has been off for 10hrs. When I leave here I’m straight out onto the Trans Canada highway which has a 110km/h speed limit. The ability to poodle up the road bringing the engine slowly up to operating temperature does not exist.
Which is why I don’t dispute your approach in your particular circumstances. It’s just that going straight onto a motorway at 60ton and -15c is completely unrepresentative of normal British work. A motorway service area is probably the closest you can be to going straight onto a motorway in Britain, and like I say, in most MSAs it’s normally a few minutes of gentle meandering before you actually get to the slip, so it’s not like you’re turning the key and slamming the engine straight up to full throttle at high revs.
On all other points you mention too, you’d have to be on heavy haulage to be carrying 60 ton (most journeys will involve carrying a fraction of that weight, with the legal maximum for normal haulage being 44ton). Temperatures as low as -15c are extreme and almost unheard of, and then would almost certainly involve the driver idling the vehicle for several minutes just to clear the frost off the screen and get the cab comfortable (even if he doesn’t give a hoot about the engine itself).
Because of this, I idle until my coolant temperature is at 150deg. I also do oil sample analysis, so I know for a fact that this is not doing my engine any harm, not a guess, not an RDC waiting room story, it’s a cold hard fact.
Yet there are people here trying to prove that I’m doing it wrong, when the facts prove otherwise. Now if there was supporting evidence to their claims, such as an oil sample, I may be convinced to change my methods, but there hasn’t been.
Now I’m going to work, I will jump out, check my oil and water, start my engine, do a walk around check, bump up my idle to 1000rpm, take a wander over to the truckstop, have a dump, have a wash, brush my teeth (with Colgate) and then once my temperature gauge hits 150c, I’ll hit the road, safe in the knowledge that the facts I have from my oil samples prove that my ritual isn’t doing my engine any harm.
The facts are that what you’re doing consumes operating time on the engine, consumes fuel, and consumes labour time. None of it will do any special harm to the engine or show up on an oil sample - any minor extra wear will just blend into the vagaries of the wear which an engine experiences anyway.
If the harm shows up anywhere, it will show up spectacularly as a greater number of stops at petrol stations, from which you will take away a greater number of diesel receipts displaying greater amounts of money, and on your timesheets. In your case it might all be justifiable in one way or another because of the extreme conditions, and put down to the cost of doing business, and if you’re leaving the vehicle unattended (something that would be criminal in Britain) while you go to freshen yourself up, then the labour time isn’t wasted.
But if we’re talking about advice in general, such as applies to the typical British trucker or to the person who writes a manufacturer’s manual, the advice must be that there is no evidence whatsoever for the benefits of idling, certainly not against its provable and indisputable costs. The argument for idling has been shown to be purely from laymen who are speculating from engineering principles, and not apparently supported by any reputable sources or knowledgeable professionals who have particular experience in engines.
. I’ll stick with my manual.
When logic suggests that load applied to the engine before temperatures and with it working tolerances between working parts and fluid temps and circulation has reached at least a reasonable level,doesn’t mix.As for Rjan’s economics we’re discussing expensive truck engines not small relatively cheap to rebuild car engines.