waitrose

[misterstrood]

O.K. So as the EU thread has been deleted we shall continue here…

Happy Keith:
Further to that, please understand that I’ll not be following the reference to an essay on why migrants (guests?) to this country…

So as well are British citizens anywhere in the EU according to freedom of movement.

Happy Keith:
…why Britain should endure abusive & undemocratic treatment in the 21st Century.

Probably that is why but again - history not lies of your political leader should be followed
… “The events of the Suez Crisis showed the United Kingdom that it could no longer operate alone, instead turning to the United States and the European Community. Britain, along with Denmark, Ireland and Norway, applied for membership in 1960. **However, then—French President Charles de Gaulle saw British membership of the Community as a Trojan horse for US interests, and hence stated he would veto British membership.[**2] The four countries resubmitted their applications on 11 May 1967 and with Georges Pompidou succeeding Charles de Gaulle as French President, the veto was lifted.”

which indicates that UK wanted to be in EC which later changed its name for EU and use it officialy since 1993.

Happy Keith:
Also, as Sir Winston himself may once have corroborated, unwanted intrusion into an Englishman’s back garden is rude.

Agreed but the same may be told by French, Spaniards, Portuguese, Greek etc. etc.
Just for the facts which I mentioned previously: in Languedoc lives 3,650,000 people and according to surveys there is 500.000 of Britons living there (1/7 of the population ).
Then this comes to my mind:
524433_4336974587192_1591778151_n.jpg
Look bootom of the thread as I am so uneducated that I have no idea why it does not fit in here

As for the topic :

Happy Keith:
…why Britain should endure abusive & undemocratic treatment in the 21st Century

Maybe I get that wrong but if I smell sarcasm from that I should say why anyone from Waitrose should encourage racism in 21st Century… When we all know that Britain is the first country to stick to its guns against it

Have a good day and thank you for very interesting discussion

[happy_keith]

MisterStrood:

Happy Keith:
…why Britain should endure abusive & undemocratic treatment in the 21st Century…’

‘… "The events of the Suez Crisis showed the United Kingdom that it could no longer operate alone…’

I’m addressing the present in order to enable a democratic future with more companies adopting the Waitrose model if possible

I fail to comprehend the argument of Britain’s contemporary punishment being justified because of international & conjoined activity to secure universal freedoms in the 1950’s. (Or I’d be advocating the return of E. Europe to communism seeing as Moscow told us how much all the citizens enjoyed it.)

As perhaps illustrated by many nations disliking but still taking from us (because we are generous), the British do not make good sheep but play well as part of a team if the team is worth playing for.

However, the EU is not worth either playing or paying for, which the allegation made against Waitrose earlier arguably demonstrates

The past is past

The present offers opportunity

The future isn’t rosy for this country if the present is continually ignored - which it is.

How many times have spineless, mainstream, Gravy-train politicians said that the ‘time is not right’ to even talk of restoring full self-democracy - when time is always right for those in Brussels that are doing the continual erosion en-route to full, unwanted & damning Federalisation

On the one hand we are told how brilliant diversity is (hoorah for Waitrose ) whilst behind our backs Britain is being made to pay and embrace being a mere enclave of the unwanted, ill-lead and charmless rats-nest of the United [sic] States of Europe.

[orys]

Happy Keith:
I’m addressing the present in order to enable a democratic future with more companies adopting the Waitrose model if possible

Off course you are advocating the very same treatment to all Britons in Canada, Spain, Cyprus and allover the world?

[happy_keith]

orys:

Happy Keith:
‘…a democratic future …’

‘… the … same treatment to all Britons …’

I mean, democracy everywhere to all whom it is currently denied, which ironically enough (to me) means achieving proper democracy for us in the UK.

I’m not a raving advocate for situations affecting others in other places and about which I know little - although I’m sure many of us respect that their back garden is for their jurisdiction, and not that of a dictatorial third party (ie, Brussels or Moscow, etc)

[lorn_trakta]

WINSTON LEONARD SPENCER-CHUCHILL was indeed a brit, he was also half American, no doubt his vision of a United States of Europe was of it having a striking resemblance to the United States of America, his mothers homeland, than that of a despot regime, that was voted for by the ill informed voters of 40 years ago, of whom a significant number are now deceased, since when does one vote ‘‘ever’’ describe democracy?.
Mentioning Churchill and the EU in the same sentence is frankly perverse, and sacrilege.

[misterstrood]

Lorn trakta:
WINSTON LEONARD SPENCER-CHUCHILL was indeed a brit…

So he was. Born in Blenheim Palace, England.

Lorn trakta:
…he was also half American…

His mother was from NY,but it doesn’t make him American. He was born and bred here.
Read about aristocracy and you’ll know also why.

Lorn trakta:
no doubt his vision of a United States of Europe was of it having a striking resemblance to the United States of America,

So it was his idea later adopted by Inner Six Countries.
Also a reason of Charles de Gaulle giving his veto to British membership.

Lorn trakta:
other than that of a despot regime, that was voted for by the ill informed voters of 40 years ago, of whom a significant number are now deceased,

No one was misled or ill informed as at that time it was EC and that is what you were voting for.
You can not say no one told you of EU as at that time it did not exist. It was evolved from EC (evolved from EEC and EAEC which evolved from ECSC ) and Britain for many years was taking part in creation of what is now EU.
As Orys said it was good at that time and you wanted it ( Britain has applied twice - you weren’t welcome ) but now as EU ( and rest of the world ) is in crisis you do not want it.

Lorn trakta:
Mentioning Churchill and the EU in the same sentence is frankly perverse, and sacrilege.

In your own opinion. He gave an idea of creating it [EU] “in resemblance to the United States of America”.
That means with central goverment i.e Brussels.

[lorn_trakta]

In your own opinion. He gave an idea of creating it [EU] “in resemblance to the United States of America”.
That means with central goverment i.e Brussels.

not one element of the USA’s governmental process, either federal or state has ‘government’ without choice, your old REICHist friends in Bruxelles are fond of that aren’t they,

As Orys said it was good at that time and you wanted it ,‘‘YOU WANTED IT’’, which ‘‘YOU’’ are you referring to? the now dead and gone because no living voter TODAY has been canvassed on EU membership, being ‘canvased’ ONCE and ONCE only strikes me as another old REICHist trait,

I made no claim to Churchill being American, learn to read, and it would be churlish to suggest that his mother made no reference in passing to her life in America, if the American Constitution was the EU ‘‘model’’ you would be living in an entirely different world, and the Bruxellesbruderbund would be on their way to prison.

[orys]

Lorn trakta:
As Orys said it was good at that time and you wanted it ,‘‘YOU WANTED IT’’, which ‘‘YOU’’ are you referring to? the now dead and gone because no living voter TODAY has been canvassed on EU membership, being ‘canvased’ ONCE and ONCE only strikes me as another old REICHist trait,

That’s interesting. Should we vote for EVERYTHING every 30 years or so, when most of the previous voters are dead?

[lorn_trakta]

orys:

Lorn trakta:
As Orys said it was good at that time and you wanted it ,‘‘YOU WANTED IT’’, which ‘‘YOU’’ are you referring to? the now dead and gone because no living voter TODAY has been canvassed on EU membership, being ‘canvased’ ONCE and ONCE only strikes me as another old REICHist trait,

That’s interesting. Should we vote for EVERYTHING every 30 years or so, when most of the previous voters are dead?

Why do I suspect you would indeed accept a 30 year ‘parliamentary term’ from a government.

[orys]

Lorn trakta:

orys:

Lorn trakta:
As Orys said it was good at that time and you wanted it ,‘‘YOU WANTED IT’’, which ‘‘YOU’’ are you referring to? the now dead and gone because no living voter TODAY has been canvassed on EU membership, being ‘canvased’ ONCE and ONCE only strikes me as another old REICHist trait,

That’s interesting. Should we vote for EVERYTHING every 30 years or so, when most of the previous voters are dead?

Why do I suspect you would indeed accept a 30 year ‘parliamentary term’ from a government.

Well, I would not, but you have the same family ruling your country for much longer

Anyway, goverment is to be changed by definition, memberships in international organizations are not, because otherwise everyone would treat them like Britain - I mean being a member only when its profitable to them, and then therefore they would loose any sense - because the main reason for joining together is that what comes around, goes around - today we help Greece and in 60 years maybe Greece will save our arse… You can’t be in ANY relationship - no matter political or personal or whatever else, if you want only to take…

(and I am not discussing now who is taking and who is giving, I am speaking in general terms).

[mike-c]

orys:
Hihi, I see the EU thread is deleted

It was deleted because starting a thread debating the rights and wrongs of the EU, disccusing polotics in a wide context doesn’t really have a place here. Its a drivers forum.

orys:
Obviously we have to come back to this one…

Its not obvious to me. Whilst we accept a topic to drift, wander and roam off on a tangent what is not going to happen is that you (or anyone else) is going to have a full scale discussion of the rights and wrongs of EU policy, government, democracy or whatever else it is you wanna discuss right here in the drivers forum. There are other places more or less suitable for such discussions. Bullys Bar for a start, but probably best discussed with like minded people on the many democracy type forums.
I think we’ve done the Waitrose bit here so its now locked.