Hi
My employer has recently made changes to the way work is planned, and I want to know if what they are asking us to do is legal. Basically, they want me to ring in around 11am each day, at which point they will tell me what time to start work, which could be anything between 11am and 2pm. When we get into work, they make us sign a ‘fit for work’ declaration to say we have had sufficient rest etc.
Previously, we would be told at the end of the previous shift what time to come in the next day, but now we’re having to get up and ready for work by 11am, and then be expected to sit around if they don’t need us until later. None of this is paid for, not the waiting or the phone calls.
Can they do this?
I’m not sure what the legal perspective on it is but on a personal level I would tell him that if he wanted me ready and fit for work at 11am then he needs to start paying me then…
Actually, thinking about it from a legal perspective, then if you need to be available to potentially start work when you make the call then you’re not free to dispose of your time as you wish, so I would think the duration of the call counts as “other work” and not daily rest and therefore it is the start of your shift. You might then have 3h of break before you go into work at 1400 but the duty time clock is ticking from 1100 onwards and I would say he can’t then ask you to start at 1400 and work a 15h shift from then.
Don’t take what I just said as gospel though, it is me thinking aloud. Wait and see what others say before you confront him… 
Paul
repton:
I’m not sure what the legal perspective on it is but on a personal level I would tell him that if he wanted me ready and fit for work at 11am then he needs to start paying me then…Actually, thinking about it from a legal perspective, then if you need to be available to potentially start work when you make the call then you’re not free to dispose of your time as you wish, so I would think the duration of the call counts as “other work” and not daily rest and therefore it is the start of your shift. You might then have 3h of break before you go into work at 1400 but the duty time clock is ticking from 1100 onwards and I would say he can’t then ask you to start at 1400 and work a 15h shift from then.
Don’t take what I just said as gospel though, it is me thinking aloud. Wait and see what others say before you confront him…
Paul
I am sort of with Paul with this, not sure about legality, but morally I would tell him to zb off. After a holiday on my previous job. I would get a call around 9.30 in the morning telling me that someone was loading in Chester, Liverpool or Manchester and the driver would ring me when he was leaving the customer. For the next 4 or 5 hours I was on tenterhooks and couldn’t go out, most of the times the driver arrived between 5pm and 10 pm and then we had to drive to Belgium often arriving about 3 or 4am. This was one of the main reasons for my leaving the company, that and the fact the depot manager spoke to us like a piece of crap if we dared to complain, which I dared to often. 
Well I did put the word out that I would be phoning VOSA and ACAS to clarify the situation, and surprise-surprise, we have now been allocated start times even though they don’t know what run we will be doing until we get in.
I guess the limited number of replies means that people remember the old me . . . !
Anyway, I received a call from VOSA today to clarify this situation. They said that provided you have had your daily/weekly rest, you can be asked to ring in and provided that after the phone call you can freely dispose of your time, it is still part of your rest period until the point at which you officially start work. However, if you call in and the office ask you to ring back in X minutes/hours, you are then on POA and this signifies the start of your working day.
Roadhog:
Anyway, I received a call from VOSA today to clarify this situation. They said that provided you have had your daily/weekly rest, you can be asked to ring in and provided that after the phone call you can freely dispose of your time, it is still part of your rest period until the point at which you officially start work.
It might just be the way you’ve worded it, but when they say “provided you have had your daily/weekly rest” do they mean that “you must have had your full 9 or 11 hours off before you make the phone call”? If so then it is effectively limiting your days work even if the time after the call can be counted as rest, as if you have to have had 11h off before you ring in at 1100 it means than even if you don’t start until 1400 then you still have to finish by midnight to get your rest in before the call the next morning.
I don’t think I’ve worded that very well, I hope you get the point I’m trying to make.
Paul
repton:
Roadhog:
Anyway, I received a call from VOSA today to clarify this situation. They said that provided you have had your daily/weekly rest, you can be asked to ring in and provided that after the phone call you can freely dispose of your time, it is still part of your rest period until the point at which you officially start work.It might just be the way you’ve worded it, but when they say “provided you have had your daily/weekly rest” do they mean that “you must have had your full 9 or 11 hours off before you make the phone call”? If so then it is effectively limiting your days work even if the time after the call can be counted as rest, as if you have to have had 11h off before you ring in at 1100 it means than even if you don’t start until 1400 then you still have to finish by midnight to get your rest in before the call the next morning.
I don’t think I’ve worded that very well, I hope you get the point I’m trying to make.
Paul
Yea, thats what they meant. The call has to be made after you’ve had 11hrs off (or 9hrs if you want to reduce it). The schedule isn’t decided until 11am, so thats the earliest we can ring in, but any time after that once you’ve had your rest.
Police have a system where if they are required to answer or make a call while off duty they can book 5 hrs. Maybe an exaggeration but the principle is there.
dailymail.co.uk/news/article … ended.html
Roadhog:
Hi
My employer has recently made changes to the way work is planned, and I want to know if what they are asking us to do is legal. Basically, they want me to ring in around 11am each day, at which point they will tell me what time to start work, which could be anything between 11am and 2pm. When we get into work, they make us sign a ‘fit for work’ declaration to say we have had sufficient rest etc.
Previously, we would be told at the end of the previous shift what time to come in the next day, but now we’re having to get up and ready for work by 11am, and then be expected to sit around if they don’t need us until later. None of this is paid for, not the waiting or the phone calls.
Can they do this?
I don’t get it.
- Waiting for a phone call whilst off duty
- they want me to ring in around 11am each day
Which one is correct?
Moot point anyway as they are giving start times now. But sureley they should ring you with a start time.
Roadhog:
Yea, thats what they meant. The call has to be made after you’ve had 11hrs off (or 9hrs if you want to reduce it). The schedule isn’t decided until 11am, so thats the earliest we can ring in, but any time after that once you’ve had your rest.
So your 13 or 15h spread is effectively starting when you phone in then, is what they’re saying, which if you phone at 1100 and don’t start until 1400 is effectively knocking 3 hours off the maximum shift you can work, although if you spend 1100-1102 on the phone to them then at least if you don’t start work until 1402 then that 3h of break enables you to do a split shift and work until 0200 without it counting as a reduced rest.
It sounds like the ideal arrangement for someone on a salary to me. Same pay but with an artificial limit on the length of your shifts. It’s less ideal if you’re paid by the hour and want the overtime.
Paul
repton:
Roadhog:
Yea, thats what they meant. The call has to be made after you’ve had 11hrs off (or 9hrs if you want to reduce it). The schedule isn’t decided until 11am, so thats the earliest we can ring in, but any time after that once you’ve had your rest.So your 13 or 15h spread is effectively starting when you phone in then, is what they’re saying,
No, that’s not what they are saying. They are saying the period after the phone call, provided you are free to dispose of your time is still part of the rest period so your rest period continues until you arrive at work. If they tell you to call back then you are no longer free to dispose of your time so your daily rest period has ended, and manual entries will be needed to account for the time when you get your chart or insert the digi card.
you can be asked to ring in and provided that after the phone call you can freely dispose of your time, it is still part of your rest period until the point at which you officially start work.
This was asked on here a while back and Geebee45 dealt with it and his explanation was the same as the one the OP just got from VOSA.
Coffeeholic:
No, that’s not what they are saying. They are saying the period after the phone call, provided you are free to dispose of your time is still part of the rest period so your rest period continues until you arrive at work. If they tell you to call back then you are no longer free to dispose of your time so your daily rest period has ended, and manual entries will be needed to account for the time when you get your chart or insert the digi card.
Yes but the employer insists that he has to phone in at 1100 the next morning then he has to have had his 9 or 11h off by then so even though the time from 1100 to whenever he starts can still count as rest, the effect in reality is that the length of shift he can do is reduced as he has to be finished by either midnight or 0200 (depending on if you have a 9h rest left or not).
Of course if they’re flexible and don’t mind you ringing in later if your shift ends up longer then that’s not an issue and I’m just overcomplicating things for no reason (do we call that “doing a Rog”?).
Paul
repton:
Of course if they’re flexible and don’t mind you ringing in later if your shift ends up longer then that’s not an issue and I’m just overcomplicating things for no reason (do we call that “doing a Rog”?).
We used to. 
As you say if it has to be 11 then that might limit the length of shift in order to fit the rest in before the phone call. But, if you finish later you will likely be starting later the next day so it wouldn’t matter if you call later than 11 for your start time. You can’t call before 11, or 9 if available, hours have passed since the end of the shift.
Mike-C:
I don’t get it.
- Waiting for a phone call whilst off duty
- they want me to ring in around 11am each day
Which one is correct?
Moot point anyway as they are giving start times now. But sureley they should ring you with a start time.
Appologies for the confusion, at first they said they would ring us, then someone said we’d have to ring in after 11. I should have read what i’d typed before posting.
Roadhog:
…at first they said they would ring us, then someone said we’d have to ring in after 11.
So that means it doesn’t have to be at 11:00 but can be whenever you complete your 9 or 11 hours rest? No point calling before eleven as they haven’t worked out the start times I presume?
OH FOR [ZB] SAKE. 
Just cut all the “IS IT LEGAL?” BS and grow a pair.
It’s very obviously a complete ■■■■-take that a company would require an employee to sit by the phone all day waiting for a call with a start time. They either provide you with your start time for the next day at the end of your shift or you tell them what time you will be starting. Simples.
Discussion over.
The end.
Hmm, seems I didn’t fully explain the situation in my original post. I work for a haulier who is on contract to a retailer. The retailer sets the schedule for the runs, and my employer allocates drivers and start times to suit the schedule. The schedule used to be sent to my employer on a Thursday afternoon covering the next 7 days, but now it is sent at 11am each day, and only covers 24hrs (12noon-12noon). That is why they wanted us to ring in at 11am (or as soon after 11am), because some of us would be needed around then, but others wouldn’t be required until later. Those who regularly started around 3pm would be expected to ring in whenever it suits them, and once they’ve had their rest, between 11am and close to when they would need to get ready for work. My previous start band was 1145-1pm.
Given that they generally have a run scheduled to leave every 15mins, it seemed logical to allocate the core drivers a regular start time and give them whatever run is available, instead of trying to give the short runs to those who want them, and the long runs to others who want those. Then squeeze the agency drivers in where there are additional runs, simple!
Its a crap system.
Rob K:
OH FOR [ZB] SAKE.Just cut all the “IS IT LEGAL?” BS and grow a pair.
It’s very obviously a complete ■■■■-take that a company would require an employee to sit by the phone all day waiting for a call with a start time. They either provide you with your start time for the next day at the end of your shift or you tell them what time you will be starting. Simples.
Discussion over.
The end.
Oh, if only life was that easy. It is a ■■■■ take, the whole operation is run by people who don’t have a LGV licence (some don’t even have a car licence), and who do their 8hrs and go home. Unfortunately, its the retailer calling the shots, and if the haulier wants the contract (worth around £24M), the haulier has to comply. They originally said that if we dictated our start times to them, we could come in at that time, but we would only be paid from when they had scheduled us to start.
You’ve no idea how bad it is to work here, its the worst job I’ve had, but the pay is better than anything else which is available around here, and bills have to be paid. The only way to challenge them is to find out where you stand legally.
Roadhog:
Rob K:
OH FOR [ZB] SAKE.Just cut all the “IS IT LEGAL?” BS and grow a pair.
It’s very obviously a complete ■■■■-take that a company would require an employee to sit by the phone all day waiting for a call with a start time. They either provide you with your start time for the next day at the end of your shift or you tell them what time you will be starting. Simples.
Discussion over.
The end.
Oh, if only life was that easy. It is a ■■■■ take, the whole operation is run by people who don’t have a LGV licence (some don’t even have a car licence), and who do their 8hrs and go home. Unfortunately, its the retailer calling the shots, and if the haulier wants the contract (worth around £24M), the haulier has to comply. They originally said that if we dictated our start times to them, we could come in at that time, but we would only be paid from when they had scheduled us to start.
You’ve no idea how bad it is to work here, its the worst job I’ve had, but the pay is better than anything else which is available around here, and bills have to be paid. The only way to challenge them is to find out where you stand legally.
So what? Not your problem. This is why everyone gets treated like [zb] these days because no-one has got the bollox to stand up to them and tell them to [zb] off when they take the ■■■■. I mean where do you draw the line? At the moment it’s 11am, what would you do if you had to call at 7am every day? How about 4am? Would you still let them walk all over you then?
I read this BS all the time with drivers moaning about poor working conditions but yet none of them can see the bigger picture that the only people to blame are themselves . You need to pull yourself together man. What does your contract state for your working hours? Don’t tell me you signed for variable start times? If you did then you’ve only got yourself to blame.
Rob K:
So what? Not your problem. This is why everyone gets treated like [zb] these days because no-one has got the bollox to stand up to them and tell them to [zb] off when they take the ■■■■. I mean where do you draw the line? At the moment it’s 11am, what would you do if you had to call at 7am every day? How about 4am? Would you still let them walk all over you then?I read this BS all the time with drivers moaning about poor working conditions but yet none of them can see the bigger picture that the only people to blame are themselves
If i’m not standing up to them and challenging them, what the hell am I doing asking whether what they are doing is legal, and trying to change things? I am challenging them, and by doing so, I HAVE changed things. We now have assigned start times.
This isn’t the only thing i’ve challenged them about, they hate me working there because I don’t just roll over and take it. But I don’t go in shouting my mouth off until I know the facts.
And FYI, my contract says any 5 from 7, 45hrs a week basic, variable start times to suit operational requirements within a 3hr window etc, etc. As i’m on Mon-Fri, and working hours that suit me, I don’t want to rock the boat too much by being another loud-mouthed ■■■■■■■■ of a lorry driver.