Probably a stupid question here but as a relatively new driver to w&d is it quite safe to drive with just the back trailer loaded, this is something i have nt done before and was wondering if there is any driving performance changes ie trailer swinging or swaying im not going to far but there will be about ten ton on the back… i cant do it the other way round as im leaving the trailer on site while going to do another job… Any help is appreciated…
Not advisable especially if it’s wet - the pendulum effect 
, why don’t you swap the loads around, so the first drop is on the trailer 
howatsi:
Not advisable especially if it’s wet - the pendulum effect
Never explained myself very well, ill be dropping off trailer and then running down empty (with wagon ) to pick up a load. I cant do it the other way as the wagon is much larger than the trailer and the drop off has to be first…
As howatski said, not advisable especially when wet as you’re likely to suffer traction issues with that sort of weight on the back. I did it a few times when I was on for Moores Furniture where the deliveries got mucked up and I had to tip the front box first and leave the drag til later. Wasn’t much of an issue when loaded with kitchen units as there was probably no more than 5 tonne in the box, but I had one once which was pretty close to max weight with worktops and it drove like a dog. Couldn’t drive on the limiter on the motorway because you could feel the drag trying to fishtail from side to side every time you turned the wheel slightly. Had to be very very gentle on the anchors as well because the weight tries to push you round and that’s why you shouldn’t do it in the wet because you’ll end up jack-knifed if you have to anchor up a bit sharpish. 
Like the guys say, not advisable, but possible. Just take your time…
a lot depends on the weight difference
take the empty weight of the truck and the loaded weight of the trailer and see how much the difference is
I used to drive a little merc 1223 with a twin axle dragger behind it, and never had a problem coming up from Poole to Rugby with the drag full of empty pallets and nothing in the wag. Had to do it that way when collecting from the prison as the wag itself would only just fit in the ‘airlock’, had to leave the drag outside.
I’ve done it a couple of times but only for short distances, not recommended for motorway speeds as the trailer does tend to start swaying. Also there’s traction issues to consider especially if your gonna be pulling/pushing it up any sort of gradient.
lightweight_mikey:
I used to drive a little merc 1223 with a twin axle dragger behind it, and never had a problem coming up from Poole to Rugby with the drag full of empty pallets and nothing in the wag. Had to do it that way when collecting from the prison as the wag itself would only just fit in the ‘airlock’, had to leave the drag outside.
Aye, but how much does a drag full of pallets weigh on a 12 tonner? Can’t be much more than a tonne so you’re unlikely to notice it. Stick 10 tonne in the back and then come back and tell us it drives the same! 
Rob K:
lightweight_mikey:
I used to drive a little merc 1223 with a twin axle dragger behind it, and never had a problem coming up from Poole to Rugby with the drag full of empty pallets and nothing in the wag. Had to do it that way when collecting from the prison as the wag itself would only just fit in the ‘airlock’, had to leave the drag outside.Aye, but how much does a drag full of pallets weigh on a 12 tonner? Can’t be much more than a tonne so you’re unlikely to notice it. Stick 10 tonne in the back and then come back and tell us it drives the same!
depends entirely on the amount of weight difference between wagon and drag and the balance of the load naturally
Its not adviseable as everybody else has said …You will be asking for trouble…
If it is a 44t w&d then the mt weight ‘might’ be around the 18t mark, I would say the prime mover will be about 10t mt, then the trl will be 8t mt, so if you put 10t in the trl it will be around the 18t mark…So that will be 80% greater.
Deepinvet:
Its not adviseable as everybody else has said …You will be asking for trouble…If it is a 44t w&d then the mt weight ‘might’ be around the 18t mark, I would say the prime mover will be about 10t mt, then the trl will be 8t mt, so if you put 10t in the trl it will be around the 18t mark…So that will be 80% greater.
to make any difference at all supposing that it is evenly loaded, you would need to have at least a 40-50% weight difference between the total weight of the loaded trailer and the empty weight of the truck.
Experience of driving the things for 20 odd years
Deepinvet:
Its not adviseable as everybody else has said …You will be asking for trouble…If it is a 44t w&d then the mt weight ‘might’ be around the 18t mark, I would say the prime mover will be about 10t mt, then the trl will be 8t mt, so if you put 10t in the trl it will be around the 18t mark…So that will be 80% greater.
what? have you been drinking, ar do you always talk through the rear end? 
assuming does not answer anything
to answer with certainty you need the following information
weight of truck empty
weight of trailer empty
weight of load in trailer
distribution of load in trailer
amount of axles truck
amount of axles trailer
length of truck
length of trailer
then and only then can you say whether it will be safe or not.
Let’s just say it’s not very safe and have done with it Paul.
Rob K:
Let’s just say it’s not very safe and have done with it Paul.
Rob perfectly safe under the right conditions depending on the factors listed above, done it stacks of times and not had one fall over yet and thats with both the modern caravan type drawbars and the older mans version known as an A Frame
Vascoingles:
Rob K:
Let’s just say it’s not very safe and have done with it Paul.Rob perfectly safe under the right conditions depending on the factors listed above, done it stacks of times and not had one fall over yet and thats with both the modern caravan type drawbars and the older mans version known as an A Frame
Yes I know it can be relatively safe if the weight and distrubution is a good match but the guy said he’s sticking 10 tonne in his drag. I think you would agree that with an empty prime mover that is not going to handle too well and there’s a good chance of it snapping round in the wet if he gets his braking wrong.
not necessarily
if he has a 2 axled motor and 3 axled trailers the chances of it happening are less also it could be that the trailer is longer then the truck.
Obviously it is something that the company is used to doing as they already know that you can only get to the 1st customer with only the truck (regular delivery ), so it would be safe to assume that they have some sort of experience with the adresses.
Wait till the truck is unloaded and go for a drive accelerating slowly and see if it starts to sway if it does tell them to find a reload possibility.
as stated before without all the information to hand as posted previously everything that can/is posted here is pure conjecture and supposition.
The only person who can really decide is the driver himself when he sees how it handles once the first drop is made.
browncow2:
Deepinvet:
Its not adviseable as everybody else has said …You will be asking for trouble…If it is a 44t w&d then the mt weight ‘might’ be around the 18t mark, I would say the prime mover will be about 10t mt, then the trl will be 8t mt, so if you put 10t in the trl it will be around the 18t mark…So that will be 80% greater.
what? have you been drinking, ar do you always talk through the rear end?
Don’t drink and try not to talk out my rear end…well not too often, what part don’t you understand■■? The Trls weight is 80% greater than the prime mover, I did try to keep it simple… obviously not enough.
Please bear in mind this is only an example and bears no relation to the veh the original poster was on about…phew,
The above is worked out on the max weight you can carry on uk roads, (apart from stgo),
If it was a wagon and drag on an A frame it would be much less of a problem, than with a centre axle caravan, unless you can move the weight forward to push more weight onto the rear axle of the prime unit