Please excuse my stupidity but I’m a little confused.
I’ve been a Class 1 HGV driver for over 20 years and thought I was more or less clued up when it came to E.U. Driver rules and W.T.D. rules and working them together during my working day.
Recently I have started a new job doing multi drop.
My average working day consists of an approx. 60 min drive followed by my delivery round which is roughly 15 - 18 deliveries in a 5 mile radius. Then the return drive home and the usual De-Kit , fuel and paperwork routine once back in the depot. Generally my driving time doesn’t go over 4 hrs as its all stop-start and my working day doesn’t go over 9 hrs.
I have been told, by the company Trainers, that I can take a 15 min break as my first break but that I can then take another 15 min break to satisfy my W.T.D. rules. They are telling me that I don’t have to take a 30 min break as I’m not needing to clear my card as I’ve not got near 4 1/2 hrs. Reading from The VOSA site it states that " the second break must be a minimum of 30 mins". In the past I’ve always taken a second 30 minute break or a full 45 if it was appropriate. Can anyone clarify this for me or direct me to a publication where I could read up on any recent changes…
Thanks
2 x 15 min breaks is ok for the hours that you do.
Oh and welcome to TNUK.
Drivers completing a working period of between 6 and 9 hours must take a break(s) totalling at least 30 minutes.
Where periods of work exceed 9 hours a break(s) totaling at least 45 minutes must be taken.
Only breaks of at least 15 minutes qualify towards these breaks…
That the rules of the WTD
Have a gander at this
gov.uk/government/uploads/s … europe.pdf
I wouldn’t be happy working 9 hours with just one 30 minute break even if it was legal.
Remember your driving hours break can be also included in your wtd break.
Are you not getting confused with the driving breaks, which can be split the first being 15 mins the second has to be at least a 30min when you have driven 4.5 hrs. Stick to doing it your way and have an extra break 
Your company trainers are correct. As your day does not exceed 4.5 hours driving your breaks do not need to satisfy the driving time regulations. The only regulations you would breach are the WTD.
BygByrd67:
:?: Please excuse my stupidity but I’m a little confused.
I’ve been a Class 1 HGV driver for over 20 years and thought I was more or less clued up when it came to E.U. Driver rules and W.T.D. rules and working them together during my working day.
Recently I have started a new job doing multi drop.
My average working day consists of an approx. 60 min drive followed by my delivery round which is roughly 15 - 18 deliveries in a 5 mile radius. Then the return drive home and the usual De-Kit , fuel and paperwork routine once back in the depot. Generally my driving time doesn’t go over 4 hrs as its all stop-start and my working day doesn’t go over 9 hrs.
I have been told, by the company Trainers, that I can take a 15 min break as my first break but that I can then take another 15 min break to satisfy my W.T.D. rules. They are telling me that I don’t have to take a 30 min break as I’m not needing to clear my card as I’ve not got near 4 1/2 hrs. Reading from The VOSA site it states that " the second break must be a minimum of 30 mins". In the past I’ve always taken a second 30 minute break or a full 45 if it was appropriate. Can anyone clarify this for me or direct me to a publication where I could read up on any recent changes…
Thanks
You’re confusing the driving breaks with the breaks required for the working time regulations, as you don’t reach 4½ hours driving time you don’t need a 45 minute driving break, however you do need to have the required WTD breaks.
I’ve listed the breaks that are required for the working time regulations in this post
Basically if you don’t reach 4½ hours driving time and your total working time doesn’t go over 9 hours you only need a 30 minute break, that 30 minute break can be split into two parts of at-least 15 minutes each.
You should have a break of at-least 15 minutes before going over 6 hours working time, if you have the 30 minute break in two parts neither break should be at the immediate start of finish of the shift.
Welcome to Trucknet-UK
Just remember that if you get delayed for any reason while you are driving, like a motorway closure or something and your driving time reaches 4 1/2 hours, even if you have had that second 15 minute break to satisfy WTD you will need to stop again for another minimum 30 minute break to cover your driving hours because that second 15 min break doesn’t qualify.
Kaistar:
Just remember that if you get delayed for any reason while you are driving, like a motorway closure or something and your driving time reaches 4 1/2 hours, even if you have had that second 15 minute break to satisfy WTD you will need to stop again for another minimum 30 minute break to cover your driving hours because that second 15 min break doesn’t qualify.
Personally myself I would have a 30 for the 2nd break for that reason or you might get sent back out for an emergency delivery, even on a job and knock I won’t rush around.
bald bloke:
Kaistar:
Just remember that if you get delayed for any reason while you are driving, like a motorway closure or something and your driving time reaches 4 1/2 hours, even if you have had that second 15 minute break to satisfy WTD you will need to stop again for another minimum 30 minute break to cover your driving hours because that second 15 min break doesn’t qualify.Personally myself I would have a 30 for the 2nd break for that reason or you might get sent back out for an emergency delivery, even on a job and knock I won’t rush around.
As would I but it reads to me that his company says they want him to have just 15 minute breaks. Do companies really expect you to go all day without a lunch break :S
Kaistar:
bald bloke:
Kaistar:
Just remember that if you get delayed for any reason while you are driving, like a motorway closure or something and your driving time reaches 4 1/2 hours, even if you have had that second 15 minute break to satisfy WTD you will need to stop again for another minimum 30 minute break to cover your driving hours because that second 15 min break doesn’t qualify.Personally myself I would have a 30 for the 2nd break for that reason or you might get sent back out for an emergency delivery, even on a job and knock I won’t rush around.
As would I but it reads to me that his company says they want him to have just 15 minute breaks. Do companies really expect you to go all day without a lunch break :S
A lot of companies in different industries insist on minimal but legal breaks .
I cant remember the last time I had 45min 
It’s normally 60 or even 90 min 
or a little bit more if i’m tired
Shift time = from clocking on to clocking off
Driving time during the shift = recorded drive time on the tacho
Working time (work) during a shift = driving time added to other work time
Driving time breaks are 45 mins or 15 + 30
Working time breaks are a minimum of 15 mins
The same break can be used for both but the rules on driving time breaks take preference
Driving time requires a break(s) so that 4.5 hours recorded driving time is not exceeded
Working time requires a break so that 6 hours of recorded work is not exceeded
Working time also requires a minimum total of break(s) depending how long the work in a shift is
I agree with most above, whilst legally it’s OK with 2 x 15 minute breaks, i’m buggered if i’d be doing all those drops without having a proper 30 minute break (so total of 45 mins) during the day.
Not for any legal reasons, but to stop for a break longer than the minimum time required to have a pee wash you hands and throw a cup o’ tea down your neck before you rush on.
Why are the trainers even remotely concerned about this, are the company utilising vehicles down to the second so pushing every one to minimal breaks to shave 15 poxy minutes off a working day…legal breaks are minimums you must take not targets to aim for.
Why is it that Drivers only take the bare minimum break time ie lunch why do they never seem to have a paid “mid shift tea break” like they invariably do in the office■■?
Nothing says you MUST do 4.5hr driving or MUST do 6hr WTD before you can have a break,ignore the TO when they say stupid things like “Why did you need to stop you hadn`t done 4.5 or 6 hrs”, especially when they go home on 8-9 hrs and had tea & lunch breaks in that time.
Juddian:
I agree with most above, whilst legally it’s OK with 2 x 15 minute breaks, i’m buggered if i’d be doing all those drops without having a proper 30 minute break (so total of 45 mins) during the day.Not for any legal reasons, but to stop for a break longer than the minimum time required to have a pee wash you hands and throw a cup o’ tea down your neck before you rush on.
Why are the trainers even remotely concerned about this, are the company utilising vehicles down to the second so pushing every one to minimal breaks to shave 15 poxy minutes off a working day…legal breaks are minimums you must take not targets to aim for.
Total agree.
if you have worked 13 hours duty time, the ‘between 6 and 9 hours’ rule is superseded by the ‘over 9 hours’ rule, which does not state that you must have a break by 9 hours
the rules are referring to TOTAL duty time, not time DURING the duty
look at it this way…
rule 1, must not work more than 6 hours without a break
Rule 2, if your total working time is between 6 and 9 hours, you must have a break (or breaks) of at least 30 minutes
Rule 3, if your total working time is over 9 hours, you must have a break (or breaks) totalling minimum 45 minutes
Rule 4, breaks can be taken in minimum 15 minute intervals
so, from that, rules 1 and 4 are compulsory!!!
rules 2 and 3 depend on the total amount of duty time, it is either rule 2 applies, OR rule 3, NOT both
so, if the driver is going to be working for 8 hours 45 minutes, he will need a 15 minute break at 6 hours (rule 1 and 4), and another break at no later than 8 hours 15 minutes working (rule 2), so that he does not finish his shift on a break
on the other hand, if the driver is going to work 15 hours, driver starts shift at 06:00, at 12:00 takes a 15 minute WTD break (rules 1 and 4), he will then need his next 15 minute break no later than 18:15 (rules 1, 3 and 4), then, he must take a final 15 minute break no later than 20:30 (rules 3 and 4)
rules 2 and 3 refer to the total working time, and are not used together
this is 100% legal, if you read the rules, it clearly states this
whether it is advisable to do this, is irrelevant, BUT, IT IS LEGAL!!!
hope this clears it up
If I was you i’d have 15 minutes at some point before the 6 hour mark then have another 30 minutes at some point afterwards (before 9 hours). I like to take the final 30 after i’d completed all my drops… park up, tidy up my paperwork then stick it on break and relax before heading back.
That’s if I was hourly paid. I imagine most job & knock drivers would exercise the minimum 2 x 15s though and take them whilst tipping.
rob22888:
If I was you i’d have 15 minutes at some point before the 6 hour mark then have another 30 minutes at some point afterwards (before 9 hours).
Why another 30 mins before 9 hours if working hours longer than 9?
ROG:
rob22888:
If I was you i’d have 15 minutes at some point before the 6 hour mark then have another 30 minutes at some point afterwards (before 9 hours).Why another 30 mins before 9 hours if working hours longer than 9?
because it might only be 9.15 or 9.30 Rog imaging being told there might be another job whe you get back that’s gonna take you over the 9 hrs then you get there and hang around while its sorted only to be cancelled your over 9hrs and you’ve only had 30 all day, so now you have to have another 15 to make up the 45 then a few mins to finish off your shift …