Can you believe it ! for all the stress you can get from Vosa checkpoints over 4 hrs 31 driving and the last turn of the trailer legs_take that, have a juicy fine etc- - - I’ve just had a ‘conversation’ with a senior traffic area examiner concerning ROI and Northern Irish tramping using Holyhead and Belfast ferries using the 11 hour DR, 2 interuption ferry rules every working day from Sunday to Thursday ; ie. a ferry crossing sunday monday tuesday and wednesday nights during the daily rest. I made the point by outlining systematic disregard by the operator that even if the working day is 13 hours or less to enable the ferry to be taken on a split 11 hour rest, the maximum continuous rest on any night is only 5 hours due to the operators insistance on running times ; also then driving long distances during the ferry movement period to enable a 13 hour or less working day to turn around from Newark with the next trailer back to the ferry; - guess what " no problem" as far as Vosa enforcement area 5 is concerned. !! Well , at the inquest of the first fatalities of any of my former colleagues, I want to be there to highlight Vosa’s corporate culperbility contributing to their demise. Insufficient rest on a day by day, week by week basis on a ‘bus route’ Sunday to Thursday Irish -Newark routine is out of order. Nolans, the flip flop brigade and others would get get hammered - wouldn’t they ? DHL Newark ?- no problem !. Can you believe it !. Its not a case of wanting them prosecuted out of hand - - just get a fair deal for the overtired- ,( but vosa says tacho-legal) , drivers. Vosa obviously doesnt give a (zb).
bernie_2MEMBER Posts: 11
the regulations are not made by vosa, just enforced. but there has to be a bit of give and take.
if a driver is involved in a fatal accident due to tiredness, then it’s his fault, not the fault of vosa, or the EU.
if you are too tired, but within the rules, and regs. then stop for a kip.
bernie_2:
Can you believe it ! for all the stress you can get from Vosa checkpoints over 4 hrs 31 driving and the last turn of the trailer legs_take that, have a juicy fine etc- - - I’ve just had a ‘conversation’ with a senior traffic area examiner concerning ROI and Northern Irish tramping using Holyhead and Belfast ferries using the 11 hour DR, 2 interuption ferry rules every working day from Sunday to Thursday ; ie. a ferry crossing sunday monday tuesday and wednesday nights during the daily rest. I made the point by outlining systematic disregard by the operator that even if the working day is 13 hours or less to enable the ferry to be taken on a split 11 hour rest, the maximum continuous rest on any night is only 5 hours due to the operators insistance on running times ; also then driving long distances during the ferry movement period to enable a 13 hour or less working day to turn around from Newark with the next trailer back to the ferry; - guess what " no problem" as far as Vosa enforcement area 5 is concerned. !! Well , at the inquest of the first fatalities of any of my former colleagues, I want to be there to highlight Vosa’s corporate culperbility contributing to their demise. Insufficient rest on a day by day, week by week basis on a ‘bus route’ Sunday to Thursday Irish -Newark routine is out of order. Nolans, the flip flop brigade and others would get get hammered - wouldn’t they ? DHL Newark ?- no problem !. Can you believe it !. Its not a case of wanting them prosecuted out of hand - - just get a fair deal for the overtired- ,( but vosa says tacho-legal) , drivers. Vosa obviously doesnt give a (zb).
bernie_2MEMBER Posts: 11
merry christmas and all that … 
If they are operating within the law then what do you want them to do?
I know what you are saying but the day they start prosecuting for things that are legal,but they don’t think you should be doing just because…then we are trully ■■■■■■.
And your point is? If its legal it’s legal. Can’t please some people, when the Irish ran bent everybody ranted about them now most are doing it legal and in some people’s eyes it’s still not good enough.
Anyway,they do give a ■■■■ as I hear the ministry are going to be out tomorrow night on an intelligence based lead that Father Christmas will be showing a red light to the front.
isn’t this about the 3rd time you’ve posted about DHL doing newark and back to holyhead?
what is your grief? sacked for not being able to do it or jealous that they won’t let you play with their toys?
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=74903&p=1022296#p973754
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=73088&p=973752#p973752
if they get pulled and don’t get fined by VOSA what can you do? stand on a bridge on the A55 and shoot them michael ryan styley screaming at the top of your voice ■■■■■■■■ 
If DHL are doing this, expecting a driver to take an interrupted rest every night, then although it may be tachograph legal I would say they would be eligible to face charges of corporate manslaughter if this did end up with a fatality caused by a driver being over-tired.
welshboyinspain:
isn’t this about the 3rd time you’ve posted about DHL doing newark and back to holyhead?
what is your grief? sacked for not being able to do it or jealous that they won’t let you play with their toys?
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=74903&p=1022296#p973754
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=73088&p=973752#p973752
if they get pulled and don’t get fined by VOSA what can you do? stand on a bridge on the A55 and shoot them michael ryan styley screaming at the top of your voice [zb]
There is a line in his post about being at the inquest of hi former collegues…Maybe a bit of bad blood OP?
bernie_2:
Can you believe it ! for all the stress you can get from Vosa checkpoints over 4 hrs 31 driving and the last turn of the trailer legs_take that, have a juicy fine etc- - -
Total BS, so one thing less to stress about.
bernie_2:
I’ve just had a ‘conversation’ with a senior traffic area examiner concerning ROI and Northern Irish tramping using Holyhead and Belfast ferries using the 11 hour DR, 2 interuption ferry rules every working day from Sunday to Thursday ; ie. a ferry crossing sunday monday tuesday and wednesday nights during the daily rest. I made the point by outlining systematic disregard by the operator that even if the working day is 13 hours or less to enable the ferry to be taken on a split 11 hour rest, the maximum continuous rest on any night is only 5 hours due to the operators insistance on running times ; also then driving long distances during the ferry movement period to enable a 13 hour or less working day to turn around from Newark with the next trailer back to the ferry
With a maximum of 1 hour for the movement(s) and the time it takes to get out of the docks you aren’t going to be running any long distances during the movement(s). You would be lucky to have enough time to get over the bridge out of Anglesey.
bernie_2:
Nolans, the flip flop brigade and others would get get hammered - wouldn’t they ?
No, if they were doing that they wouldn’t be illegal either.
Why don’t you sort it out for yourself instead of wanting VOSA to say something is illegal when it isn’t? The regulations are a very useful tool for the driver to use to make sure they only do what they want to do, whether that is more or less. 
I presume you told the police about this person holding a gun to your head or holding your loved ones hostage and forcing you to do something against your will day in, day out? I’m no expert but I think threatening you with a firearm and kidnapping are definitely illegal so that could be the illegal thing you are seeking.
ShropsBri:
welshboyinspain:
isn’t this about the 3rd time you’ve posted about DHL doing newark and back to holyhead?
what is your grief? sacked for not being able to do it or jealous that they won’t let you play with their toys?
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=74903&p=1022296#p973754
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=73088&p=973752#p973752
if they get pulled and don’t get fined by VOSA what can you do? stand on a bridge on the A55 and shoot them michael ryan styley screaming at the top of your voice [zb]There is a line in his post about being at the inquest of hi former collegues…Maybe a bit of bad blood OP?
Read it again. He doesn’t say he has been at an inquest, he wants to be there the first time there is one because one of his former colleagues has died. I think the word former tells us pretty much everything about the reasons behind the post.
Coffeeholic:
ShropsBri:
welshboyinspain:
isn’t this about the 3rd time you’ve posted about DHL doing newark and back to holyhead?
what is your grief? sacked for not being able to do it or jealous that they won’t let you play with their toys?
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=74903&p=1022296#p973754
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=73088&p=973752#p973752
if they get pulled and don’t get fined by VOSA what can you do? stand on a bridge on the A55 and shoot them michael ryan styley screaming at the top of your voice [zb]There is a line in his post about being at the inquest of hi former collegues…Maybe a bit of bad blood OP?
Read it again. He doesn’t say he has been at an inquest, he wants to be there the first time there is one because one of his former colleagues has died. I think the word former tells us pretty much everything about the reasons behind the post.
Indeed,and that is what I meant to get across…I’m not savvy when it comes to highlighing quotes in red…in fact not savvy at all!
People are forgetting one thing.
IT IS ALSO THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE DRIVER TO ENSURE HE IS FIT TO DRIVE and if he feels too tired, he should tell his employer that and his employer cannot force him to drive.
Once when I was driving for Geopost as a Linehaul driver I was doing my normal night trunk down to Smethwick on the A42 I started feeling really knackered and could barely keep my eyes open - the full “not had any sleep in 2 days and can’t keep my eyes open any more” routine. No idea why and it just hit me - been sleeping OK, had been on nights for about 6 months by that point.
I pulled into Tamworth services and phoned them up. They asked if I could get it to Smethwick and they’d sort something out. I said I’d have 15 minutes and see how I felt. Anyway, had the 15 minutes and felt OK enough to run to the hub. Went into the traffic office and they asked me how I was. I was still feeling the same so they got a hub driver to drive me back to my depot with the return trailer. They were ■■■■■■ off about it but they didn’t force me to drive when I felt unfit to.
Conor:
People are forgetting one thing.IT IS ALSO THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE DRIVER TO ENSURE HE IS FIT TO DRIVE and if he feels too tired, he should tell his employer that and his employer cannot force him to drive.
Technically, yes although in the real world the situation is somewhat different, particularly at a time when jobs are scarce. I wouldn’t do it myself, although many do not have the luxury of being able to give up a paid job because they are being pushed further than they would wish.
The “interrupted break when using a ferry” thing works well on nine or ten hour crossings but not so on shorter sea routes, I have in the past had employers suggest that I can do this when crossing Dover-Calais and saying “all the other drivers do it”, and my reply has always been that it is illegal on that route so I’m not doing it.
Coffeeholic:
bernie_2:
Can you believe it ! for all the stress you can get from Vosa checkpoints over 4 hrs 31 driving and the last turn of the trailer legs_take that, have a juicy fine etc- - -Total BS, so one thing less to stress about.
bernie_2:
I’ve just had a ‘conversation’ with a senior traffic area examiner concerning ROI and Northern Irish tramping using Holyhead and Belfast ferries using the 11 hour DR, 2 interuption ferry rules every working day from Sunday to Thursday ; ie. a ferry crossing sunday monday tuesday and wednesday nights during the daily rest. I made the point by outlining systematic disregard by the operator that even if the working day is 13 hours or less to enable the ferry to be taken on a split 11 hour rest, the maximum continuous rest on any night is only 5 hours due to the operators insistance on running times ; also then driving long distances during the ferry movement period to enable a 13 hour or less working day to turn around from Newark with the next trailer back to the ferryWith a maximum of 1 hour for the movement(s) and the time it takes to get out of the docks you aren’t going to be running any long distances during the movement(s). You would be lucky to have enough time to get over the bridge out of Anglesey.
bernie_2:
Nolans, the flip flop brigade and others would get get hammered - wouldn’t they ?No, if they were doing that they wouldn’t be illegal either.
Why don’t you sort it out for yourself instead of wanting VOSA to say something is illegal when it isn’t? The regulations are a very useful tool for teh driver to use to make sure they only do what they want to do, whether that is more or less.
ere coffee i think somethings wrong here , i was quoted as posting part of the above post and its nowt to do with me . it was the flip flop brigade bit … not sure how that happened .
no biggy just a bit strange is all .
bowser:
ere coffee i think somethings wrong here , i was quoted as posting part of the above post and its nowt to do with me . it was the flip flop brigade bit … not sure how that happened .no biggy just a bit strange is all .
No idea how that happened, fixed it now.
Coffeeholic:
bowser:
ere coffee i think somethings wrong here , i was quoted as posting part of the above post and its nowt to do with me . it was the flip flop brigade bit … not sure how that happened .no biggy just a bit strange is all .
No idea how that happened, fixed it now.
no worries …
Say what you will about these large outfits but they tend to be sticltly kosher when it comes to drivers hours. I doubt dhl would do anything unsafe.
Goes to show just how stupid our hours are .They are made for the big companies still they are thick enough for doing it, WTD and the SILLY POA… WHAT A JOKE BUT IT WILL COST AN INOCENT LIFE’
fuse:
Goes to show just how stupid our hours are .They are made for the big companies still they are thick enough for doing it, WTD and the SILLY POA… WHAT A JOKE BUT IT WILL COST AN INOCENT LIFE’
This has nothing to do with POA or WTD/RTD in this case, it even looks like a fairly straightforward shift with a margin for holdups
bernie_2:
Can you believe it ! for all the stress you can get from Vosa checkpoints over 4 hrs 31 driving and the last turn of the trailer legs_take that, have a juicy fine etc- - - I’ve just had a ‘conversation’ with a senior traffic area examiner concerning ROI and Northern Irish tramping using Holyhead and Belfast ferries using the 11 hour DR, 2 interuption ferry rules every working day from Sunday to Thursday ; ie. a ferry crossing sunday monday tuesday and wednesday nights during the daily rest. I made the point by outlining systematic disregard by the operator that even if the working day is 13 hours or less to enable the ferry to be taken on a split 11 hour rest, the maximum continuous rest on any night is only 5 hours due to the operators insistance on running times ; also then driving long distances during the ferry movement period to enable a 13 hour or less working day to turn around from Newark with the next trailer back to the ferry; - guess what " no problem" as far as Vosa enforcement area 5 is concerned. !! Well , at the inquest of the first fatalities of any of my former colleagues, I want to be there to highlight Vosa’s corporate culperbility contributing to their demise. Insufficient rest on a day by day, week by week basis on a ‘bus route’ Sunday to Thursday Irish -Newark routine is out of order. Nolans, the flip flop brigade and others would get get hammered - wouldn’t they ? DHL Newark ?- no problem !. Can you believe it !. Its not a case of wanting them prosecuted out of hand - - just get a fair deal for the overtired- ,( but vosa says tacho-legal) , drivers. Vosa obviously doesnt give a (zb).
bernie_2MEMBER Posts: 11
It would be impossible to do a 13 hour duty while utilising the split rest. It has been pointed out many times that the duty time will be maxed out at around 12 or 12.30 hours as the two movements must be included inside the daily duty while still taking an actual 11 hours rest period