Harry Monk:
matto75:
I know it happens outside Lidl a lot because they know the driver has to tip the delivery himself.I’ve heard this many times, but I’ve also self-tipped at Aldi, Lidl etc on numerous occasions and never seen DVSA doing checks on the way out. Has this actually happened to anyone here or is it just MMTM?
I don’t work for Lidl, but I’m reliably informed by a colleague who has (via agency) & whose word I trust.
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I would say the onus is on the DVSA as to prove guilt, getting it word of mouth that Lidl Aldi etc is self tip would not be good enough, written confirmation would be required.
My place of work is an RDC where I have been for eight years with many other similar operators in the area and I have never seen or heard of the DVSA stopping drivers when leaving such places, this is not to say it doesn’t happen.
As for them giving fixed penalties opposed to an actual summons then maybe anyone who gets a fixed penalty for such an offence would be well advised to appeal as the burden of proof would rest on the DVSA proving you didn’t have time to dispose of freely.
All sounds a bit of a story to me.
mike68:
Analysis of the card would show the moment you stopped you were on break if you are at the beck and call of the goods in department then you don’t have free time at your disposal technically speaking, now if the DVSA were to speak to the depot in question regarding the arrangements (which I would be very surprised if they have) then they would have evidence to the contrary RE: disposal of time.
But as already posted above (and elsewhere on this board every time the subject crops up), being free to dispose of your time is irrelevant as far as BREAKS are concerned - it is only a requirement when taking daily (or weekly) REST. The fact that you are “at the beck and call” of Goods In staff doesn’t matter a fig unless and until they require you to do some work (and you actually do it).
Cant say in this case, but early on in my class 2 days, I was at an RDC sat in truck and VOSA were sat outside. Then they came into the site and slowly drove round looking at the trucks.
Can’t of course do much on private land, but did wonder if they would be waiting for anyone suspicious to come out. I think by the time I left they’d vanished or gone to hide round the estate.
trevHCS:
Cant say in this case, but early on in my class 2 days, I was at an RDC sat in truck and VOSA were sat outside. Then they came into the site and slowly drove round looking at the trucks.Can’t of course do much on private land, but did wonder if they would be waiting for anyone suspicious to come out. I think by the time I left they’d vanished or gone to hide round the estate.
Public land / Private land doesn’t make a difference, DVSA have the right to examine any vehicle wether it’s LGV or PSV, they also have the right to turn up to any traffic office should they feel there are concerns regarding drivers hours legislation or wtd for mobile workers
Sitting on a chair, no matter how uncomfy, and drinking a coffee while flicking through faceache doesn’t sound like other work to me, quite how you could be so weak as to accept a fine from a failed plod bully victim for having your tacho on break while doing that is beyond me.
Harry Monk:
matto75:
I know it happens outside Lidl a lot because they know the driver has to tip the delivery himself.I’ve heard this many times, but I’ve also self-tipped at Aldi, Lidl etc on numerous occasions and never seen DVSA doing checks on the way out. Has this actually happened to anyone here or is it just MMTM?
Don’t know about in England but Lidl in Livingston is a regular haunt for the DVSA spent an hour with them while parked up waiting for my paperwork on Lidl’s site, they will also drive around the bays and give people a tug as they drive round to get their paperwork
I very much hope it’s bull crap.
The last thing I want to do after sitting on my ring getting a numb arse for 2 hours getting tipped, is pull up outside and ■■■■ about for another 45 mins. I’d rather crack on. I’m more than happy to have my tacho on break whilst on bays, so long as I get no grief for pulling up for 10 mins or so every so often to eat a meal or whatever.
It’s splitting hairs to suggest sitting in a waiting room drinking coffee and watching Netflix on your phone is other work.
[quote=“Grumpy Dad”
There is no law stating a break cannot be taken whilst on a bay unloading, as long as the driver is not carrying out anything that can be deemed as work, this includes sat in the drivers seat as that is his work station.
[/quote]
As far as I’m aware, there is no legal problem with taking a break while sitting in the driver’s seat.
Grumpy Dad:
Roymondo:
edd1974:
I either take a break before I go in. or after a leave.as a break is a time when the driver is free to dispose of his time how he feels.
.The requirement that a driver be free to dispose of his time is for daily Rest periods. There is no such requirement when recording a Break.
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A break is a period of time not less than 15 minutes where the driver is free from any type of work, classification of work can be as little as answering a work related phone call or replying to text.
There is no law stating a break cannot be taken whilst on a bay unloading, as long as the driver is not carrying out anything that can be deemed as work, this includes sat in the drivers seat as that is his work station.
A daily rest is a period not less than 9 hours where a driver is free to spend his time as he wishes.Prior to the POA mode being made law, the symbol for a break was what is now POA and daily rest the bed symbol, just throw that little snippet in to confuse people
I think you’ll find you could be wrong on this one GD. I think that you’ll find that the square symbol was for breakdowns and the bed was used for ALL breaks, be it 45s or daily/weekends
When on duty you put your tacho to bed you are on a break, definition time to recuperate, this is not a rest period,(daily/weekly) definition when a driver is free to do what he/she wants with their time.
pierrot 14:
I think you’ll find you could be wrong on this one GD. I think that you’ll find that the square symbol was for breakdowns and the bed was used for ALL breaks, be it 45s or daily/weekends
My recollection (which may be slightly askew as I’ve slept since then) was that cross hammers was for breakdowns, square box for other work and bed was for break/rest.
the maoster:
pierrot 14:
I think you’ll find you could be wrong on this one GD. I think that you’ll find that the square symbol was for breakdowns and the bed was used for ALL breaks, be it 45s or daily/weekendsMy recollection (which may be slightly askew as I’ve slept since then) was that cross hammers was for breakdowns, square box for other work and bed was for break/rest.
Crossed hammers was for union meetings: a sort of softer crossed hammernsickle.
The little box with bars was for waiting in RDC waiting room.
Bed is for day-men only because trampers only…
the maoster:
pierrot 14:
I think you’ll find you could be wrong on this one GD. I think that you’ll find that the square symbol was for breakdowns and the bed was used for ALL breaks, be it 45s or daily/weekendsMy recollection (which may be slightly askew as I’ve slept since then) was that cross hammers was for breakdowns, square box for other work and bed was for break/rest.
Correct Moaster well spotted, my old addled wine filled brain (it is Saturday 
) got it wrong! 
But my point that the bed was for ALL breaks is correct !
Grumpy Dad:
trevHCS:
Cant say in this case, but early on in my class 2 days, I was at an RDC sat in truck and VOSA were sat outside. Then they came into the site and slowly drove round looking at the trucks.Can’t of course do much on private land, but did wonder if they would be waiting for anyone suspicious to come out. I think by the time I left they’d vanished or gone to hide round the estate.
Public land / Private land doesn’t make a difference, DVSA have the right to examine any vehicle wether it’s LGV or PSV, they also have the right to turn up to any traffic office should they feel there are concerns regarding drivers hours legislation or wtd for mobile workers
As above private land makes no difference.
We have had DVSA follow certain European hauliers into our yard, checked them and then taken drivers away for questioning. They had 5 trucks in one go one day, all for using tacho cheat devices.
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Well I think it’s true to say that the west’s driver was talking out his arse
Robbo919:
when your sat in the waiting room you are no longer able to have your proper rest as you have to keep your eyes on the tv monitor which tells you when your tipped
They still shout out bay numbers when tipped. You still get the numpties plugged into their iphones who don’t hear their bay number being called out 8 times. They’re most definitely not keeping an eye on the tv monitor.
Robbo919:
Well I think it’s true to say that the west’s driver was talking out his arse
Of course he was.
If DVSA were outside Tesco’s it will have been for general spot checks, certainly not them attempting to ‘do’ drivers for recording breaks whilst sat drinking coffee.
If they were after some revenue, the in gate would have been a better bet checking the curtains for load security.
I have it on good authority that Tesco’s are on the DVSA’s ■■■■ list at the moment, apparently quite a few of the drivers were not doing their walkaround checks and running with unreported defects.
Magor has had 2 on-site visits and apparently the DVSA have said they are actively targeting anyone pulling a Tesco’s trailer.
This was all on a notice board at Magor.
Reef:
I have it on good authority that Tesco’s are on the DVSA’s [zb] list at the moment, apparently quite a few of the drivers were not doing their walkaround checks and running with unreported defects.Magor has had 2 on-site visits and apparently the DVSA have said they are actively targeting anyone pulling a Tesco’s trailer.
This was all on a notice board at Magor.
I have also seen this memo, I don’t believe they are specifically targeting Tesco but they are looking in general at similar operators in the area.
As for walk around checks you don’t even need to be there to see that many drivers don’t do them, said unit arrives at depot lets say 05:05 hrs gets assigned a load and moves at 05:25 for one or two minutes (looking for trailer) truck then stops for three or four minutes then continues to drive until lets say 07:00 then you don’t need to be Sherlock Holmes to work it out.
Tipping on break tipping on POA all very easy to detect, and I believe you can be spot fined for up to five offences within the previous 28 days.
You would have to be quite dumb to do anything suspect anymore those days are gone, they have for me anyway.