ashbyspannerman:
Good luck with that, i delivered a container loaded with garlic to an outfit in essex a few years back, hm customs raided the yard, broke the seal on my ‘box’ and found a substantial amount of class a drugs, my only defence was that the seal that was on the container was the same one noted on the cmr!
…and that’s why I like seals!!!
I thought about that scenario and as long as the seals are correct and intact, I can live with it.
chester:
So if you had checked your load before departure? You perhaps wouldn’t be drug running.You do know the fines for truck drivers bringing illegals into the country?
Not checking your load is no defence ever for prosecution.
But back in the real world, why do you think the criminals chose to hide the drugs in a box full of garlic? There was no way i could have found the drugs, customs completely broke down the load to find it, they couldn’t even put the dogs in to find it!
Sidevalve:
rgt1973:
It’s not that difficult to strap and secure a load. Most of the time the ’ in my experience’ or ’ I’ve never had that move’ group of drivers just can’t be bothered to strap the load. Yes, years ago you all ran round with no straps etc,etc, but times change and we all have to play by the rules like them or not! Personally, I will strap every load I need to and take as long as it takes! Better that than a fine!Well bully for you, aren’t you the model employee. I strap mine as well, but that is not the point being made here.
The whole point about this is that even if we DO strap the loads, using kit which has been perfectly acceptable for everyone up to now, we get nicked. In other words,seemingly without any consultation between VOSA, hauliers and bodybuilders, the goalposts seem to have been moved, and as usual it’s the poor bloody driver who’s getting it in the shorts.
Times change, you say. Yes they do; we now have vehicles with self-levelling air suspension, ABS, traction control and a host of other toys which theoretically should make it possible to use LESS load restraint not more; not that I’m advocating that. Many of us have trackers fitted, more of us comply with NSL’s than ever before, lorries are easier to drive and much easier to stop. Jacknifing, in the proper sense of the word, is almost unheard of, tyre blowouts are much less frequent, overall HGV’s are vastly safer than they’ve ever been. So why this exaggerated insistence on strapping loads? And if we do all comply, what will they find to hit us with next?
What I’m getting at is that if over the years we had all used the various load restraints provided when needed, then maybe they wouldn’t feel the need to be checking and fining people for not strapping a pallet of crisps! Joe Bloggs takes his load of steel and doesn’t secure it and looses it on a roundabout, so now to make sure it is secured everybody has to play by the same rule and strap everything. Common sense? No, but as usual the minority ruin the job for the majority!
rgt1973:
What I’m getting at is that if over the years we had all used the various load restraints provided when needed, then maybe they wouldn’t feel the need to be checking and fining people for not strapping a pallet of crisps! Joe Bloggs takes his load of steel and doesn’t secure it and looses it on a roundabout, so now to make sure it is secured everybody has to play by the same rule and strap everything. Common sense? No, but as usual the minority ruin the job for the majority!
I see where you’re coming from; unfortunately they applied similar science to drink drivers and my guess is that there’ll be the very same outcome, it won’t stop the idiots but it will create a nuisance and inconvenience for those of us who do try and stay within the law.
I find it hard to understand how the VOSA information can be so miss understood. They have made it quite clear how they intend to enforce load security at the roadside yet many seem to simply want to argue against it.
The question isn’t whether or not you are more experienced or have ever lost a load or can driver accordingly and make it to the delivery point - it is whether or not you have complied with the law. Simple.
There are many documents to read. BS-EN 12640:2001 covers lashing points on vehicles. BS-EN 12642:2001 covers curtains. BS-EN 12195-2 covers lashing equipment, BS-EN 12195-1 covers securing of loads on vehicles and there’s loads more. There are Approved Codes of Practice (Which can be used against you in criminal proceedings), books from various sources.
The actual LAW is quite complex and involves both the Construction and Use Regulations as well as the Road Traffic Act. Within these areas we have details such as:-
“A person will be regarded as DRIVING DANGEROUSLY if it is obvious to a careful and competent driver that driving the vehicle in its current state would be dangerous”. This is DANGEROUS DRIVING. This includes if DANGER IS LIKELY TO BE CAUSED. if a danger IS caused and someone dies■■? DEATH BY DANGEROUS DRIVING.
A person is guilty of using a vehicle in a DANGEROUS CONDITION if he uses, or causes or permits another to use, a motor vehicle or trailer on a road when the purpose for which it is used or the weight position or distribution of its load, OR THE MANNER IN WHICH IT IS SECURED is such that the use of the motor vehicle or trailer involves a danger of injury to any person. Note it only needs to INVOLVE a danger and not necesserily cause one.
In most cases VOSA will issue a PROHIBITION - so that counts against the operator. Of course if the driver hasn’t secured his load but DOES HAVE the equipment to do so but hasn’t used it, this may cause the driver a problem via his employer. If it is clear the vehicle/load contravenes the construction and use regulations or road traffic laws then VOSA will issue a £100 GFP to the driver as well as the prohibition. If the driver does not agree that VOSA were correct then the GFP paperwork allows them to elect to go to court (but they must still pay the fine within 28 days) and once in court you will have the opportunity to tell everyone all that you know above and beyond what the VOSA guidelens, Road Traffic Act, Construction & Use Regulations and verious BS-EN documents and Approved Codes of practice say. of course you MAY just walk away with a far larger fine and potentially points on your licence.
VOSA has also made it clear they are more interested in Curtain siders, low loaders, flat beds etc. The subject of curtain siders is quite simple. The vehicle/trailer will be constructed to either BS-EN 12642:2001 ‘L’ or BS-EN12642:2001 ‘XL’. The standard or ‘L’ version has no load bearing capability for the curtain. The ‘XL’ version has load bearing capability within the manufacturers guidelines and usually up to 40% of the payload but only when used within the guidelines. These guidlines may stipulate a maximum gap between the load and the curtain and other such matters. This ‘XL’ standard includes the curtain AND structure.
As for internal straps - simple. READ THE LABEL. Can’t find a label■■? It isn’t load bearing then. I was VERY surprised to see VOSA’s own document stipulate an internal strap is good for a 400kg pallet … none of the BS-EN standards or Approved Codes of Practice say this (as far as I have seen).
Those who have posted scenarios where they claim they cannot secure their loads (bagged products etc) then I’m afraid it is quite simple - you have got the wrong vehicle for the job. With the right vehicle and the right equipment on board any load can be secured. ALTERNATIVELY - the product is not packed in an appropriate manner and is not fit for this type of transport. There are many options available to allow the securing of a load without the driver even leaving the floor.
There are a couple of good (ish) books available
http://www.hsl.gov.uk/media/207924/shp_sep_2012_hsl.pdf
What we need to remember is that although many employers try to claim this is all the drivers responsibility - it isn’t. Under the road traffic laws anyone who USES, CAUSES OR PERMITS ANOTHER TO USE is guilty (This can unclude the consignor). Many employers are shirking their responsibilities and blaming drivers, putting drivers on the spot etc. A great responsibility is placed on the driver. As drivers you should be given the right vehicle, the right equipment and the TIME to secure the load.
Nobody can deny that the individual drivers experience counts but sometimes experience can make us forget what MIGHT happen out on the road - because it hasn’t happened to us YET.
I reckon I’ve preached enough and stand by for a slating.
Have u got the link to vosa claiming 400kg for internals as at brecon last week they was claiming 200kg for internals.
shep532:
I find it hard to understand how the VOSA information can be so miss understood. They have made it quite clear how they intend to enforce load security at the roadside yet many seem to simply want to argue against it.The question isn’t whether or not you are more experienced or have ever lost a load or can driver accordingly and make it to the delivery point - it is whether or not you have complied with the law. Simple.
There are many documents to read. BS-EN 12640:2001 covers lashing points on vehicles. BS-EN 12642:2001 covers curtains. BS-EN 12195-2 covers lashing equipment, BS-EN 12195-1 covers securing of loads on vehicles and there’s loads more. There are Approved Codes of Practice (Which can be used against you in criminal proceedings), books from various sources.
The actual LAW is quite complex and involves both the Construction and Use Regulations as well as the Road Traffic Act. Within these areas we have details such as:-
“A person will be regarded as DRIVING DANGEROUSLY if it is obvious to a careful and competent driver that driving the vehicle in its current state would be dangerous”. This is DANGEROUS DRIVING. This includes if DANGER IS LIKELY TO BE CAUSED. if a danger IS caused and someone dies■■? DEATH BY DANGEROUS DRIVING.A person is guilty of using a vehicle in a DANGEROUS CONDITION if he uses, or causes or permits another to use, a motor vehicle or trailer on a road when the purpose for which it is used or the weight position or distribution of its load, OR THE MANNER IN WHICH IT IS SECURED is such that the use of the motor vehicle or trailer involves a danger of injury to any person. Note it only needs to INVOLVE a danger and not necesserily cause one.
In most cases VOSA will issue a PROHIBITION - so that counts against the operator. Of course if the driver hasn’t secured his load but DOES HAVE the equipment to do so but hasn’t used it, this may cause the driver a problem via his employer. If it is clear the vehicle/load contravenes the construction and use regulations or road traffic laws then VOSA will issue a £100 GFP to the driver as well as the prohibition. If the driver does not agree that VOSA were correct then the GFP paperwork allows them to elect to go to court (but they must still pay the fine within 28 days) and once in court you will have the opportunity to tell everyone all that you know above and beyond what the VOSA guidelens, Road Traffic Act, Construction & Use Regulations and verious BS-EN documents and Approved Codes of practice say. of course you MAY just walk away with a far larger fine and potentially points on your licence.
VOSA has also made it clear they are more interested in Curtain siders, low loaders, flat beds etc. The subject of curtain siders is quite simple. The vehicle/trailer will be constructed to either BS-EN 12642:2001 ‘L’ or BS-EN12642:2001 ‘XL’. The standard or ‘L’ version has no load bearing capability for the curtain. The ‘XL’ version has load bearing capability within the manufacturers guidelines and usually up to 40% of the payload but only when used within the guidelines. These guidlines may stipulate a maximum gap between the load and the curtain and other such matters. This ‘XL’ standard includes the curtain AND structure.
As for internal straps - simple. READ THE LABEL. Can’t find a label■■? It isn’t load bearing then. I was VERY surprised to see VOSA’s own document stipulate an internal strap is good for a 400kg pallet … none of the BS-EN standards or Approved Codes of Practice say this (as far as I have seen).
Those who have posted scenarios where they claim they cannot secure their loads (bagged products etc) then I’m afraid it is quite simple - you have got the wrong vehicle for the job. With the right vehicle and the right equipment on board any load can be secured. ALTERNATIVELY - the product is not packed in an appropriate manner and is not fit for this type of transport. There are many options available to allow the securing of a load without the driver even leaving the floor.
There are a couple of good (ish) books available
http://www.hsl.gov.uk/media/207924/shp_sep_2012_hsl.pdf
What we need to remember is that although many employers try to claim this is all the drivers responsibility - it isn’t. Under the road traffic laws anyone who USES, CAUSES OR PERMITS ANOTHER TO USE is guilty (This can unclude the consignor). Many employers are shirking their responsibilities and blaming drivers, putting drivers on the spot etc. A great responsibility is placed on the driver. As drivers you should be given the right vehicle, the right equipment and the TIME to secure the load.
Nobody can deny that the individual drivers experience counts but sometimes experience can make us forget what MIGHT happen out on the road - because it hasn’t happened to us YET.
I reckon I’ve preached enough and stand by for a slating.
Excellent stuff, and nothing we don’t know already. Two individual people will interpret what’s actually meant by the rules/laws/guidelines/EU standards/BS etc actually mean and as soon as you start defending your securing arrangements on the roadside/inspection sites they treat you as argumentative and non compliant, then the real pain starts.
truckerbob:
Have u got the link to vosa claiming 400kg for internals as at brecon last week they was claiming 200kg for internals.
Already been posted:-
Tuphead:
Screenshots from:Moving On September 2013 - VOSA’s newsletter for the HGV and PSV industry
Vehicle & Operator Services Agency sent this bulletin at 09-09-2013 09:50 AM BST
Explains the Internal straps situation.
I see a screenshot but no link! Was hoping to download something to my phone incase vosa try claiming different to the 400kg mentioned to me.
truckerbob:
I see a screenshot but no link! Was hoping to download something to my phone incase vosa try claiming different to the 400kg mentioned to me.
Let me have your email address and I’ll send you the email I got from them.
Pete
shep532:
Those who have posted scenarios where they claim they cannot secure their loads (bagged products etc) then I’m afraid it is quite simple - you have got the wrong vehicle for the job. With the right vehicle and the right equipment on board any load can be secured. ALTERNATIVELY - the product is not packed in an appropriate manner and is not fit for this type of transport. There are many options available to allow the securing of a load without the driver even leaving the floor.I reckon I’ve preached enough and stand by for a slating.
Here it comes.
Firstly, read my posts properly please. I never said anything about being unable to secure the load properly; I said that if I used ratchet straps the chances were that the product would be damaged in transit, and that the larger bags allowed the contents to move and thereby the straps to slacken.
Furthermore, since you seem to be so well qualified, what in your professional opinion IS the right vehicle for that job? Alternatively, how would YOU package the product so that it is fit for transport? And finally, why is this suddenly a problem? Nobody has yet answered the last question satisfactorily.
Sidevalve:
Here it comes.Firstly, read my posts properly please. I never said anything about being unable to secure the load properly; I said that if I used ratchet straps the chances were that the product would be damaged in transit, and that the larger bags allowed the contents to move and thereby the straps to slacken.
Furthermore, since you seem to be so well qualified, what in your professional opinion IS the right vehicle for that job? Alternatively, how would YOU package the product so that it is fit for transport? And finally, why is this suddenly a problem? Nobody has yet answered the last question satisfactorily.
Without seeing the product and all the details I would be guessing but I would suggest not a standard curtain - an ‘XL’ trailer would likely be far better at containing & restraining the load. It sounds like it needs positive fit in a box van?? Of course I am sure there are loading and unloading constraints meaning only a curtain will do but why should that jepordise safety on the road?
Rather than ratchet straps there are the likes of canvas with a strap at each corner to effectively ‘rope & sheet’ the pallet. These can be built into the trailer roof. the large bags that will settle and therefore slacken the restraint need blocking in by positive fit. I have seen trailers with individual compartments seperated by steel cages.
When I attended a load securing course at the Health & Safety Laboratory in Buxton they used an example of Crockery. If a supplier was sending loads of dinner plates out they wouldn’t pack them in a flimsy cardboard box all loose inside sat on a pallet (if they had any sense). they would be carefully wrapped and seperated then packed in a wooden crate so the haulier could easily secure the crate.
So how do YOU secure the load properly?
shep532:
Without seeing the product and all the details I would be guessing but I would suggest not a standard curtain - an ‘XL’ trailer would likely be far better at containing & restraining the load. It sounds like it needs positive fit in a box van?? Of course I am sure there are loading and unloading constraints meaning only a curtain will do but why should that jepordise safety on the road?Rather than ratchet straps there are the likes of canvas with a strap at each corner to effectively ‘rope & sheet’ the pallet. These can be built into the trailer roof. the large bags that will settle and therefore slacken the restraint need blocking in by positive fit. I have seen trailers with individual compartments seperated by steel cages.
When I attended a load securing course at the Health & Safety Laboratory in Buxton they used an example of Crockery. If a supplier was sending loads of dinner plates out they wouldn’t pack them in a flimsy cardboard box all loose inside sat on a pallet (if they had any sense). they would be carefully wrapped and seperated then packed in a wooden crate so the haulier could easily secure the crate.
So how do YOU secure the load properly?
Sidevalve:
So, here’s my scenario. I carry pallets loaded with bags of animal feeds; these can be either 20 or 25 kg bags shrink-wrapped or 500kg tote bags. Neither are particularly suited to being strapped over with ratchets due to the nature of the contents. Not only do they risk breaking the small plastic bags, but particularly with the tote bags the contents will shift and allow the straps to slacken off, rendering the restraint useless probably within 100 yards of leaving the mill.Second problem. My vehicle (8x2 Renault) is designed to carry a 16.5 tonne payload but due to carrying a Moffett on the back, the body only takes 14 pallet base, the rest being double-stacked as half pallets. When internal straps are being used, this of course is not a problem; with ratchets it means getting the strap over the top, which in turn means the driver having to climb onto the load bed, then up onto the load(risking further damage to both himself and the load) set the strap and come down again, it being against H&S regs for him to be on the bed whilst it’s being loaded. Repeat twice to obtain maximum payload, which we frequently carry. The gap between the roof and the double-stacked pallet is not sufficient to throw the strap through, as the overall height of the vehicle is only 12’6", the most you really want on farm lanes.
Now, this lorry was built new in 2013, and one would assume that my employers consider it fit for purpose as issued to me i.e. fitted with internal straps. I wonder if VOSA will agree with them?
Not wishing to be rude but I did think my description was quite thorough. We don’t carry anything apart from that, and it’s multi-drop delivering to up to 12 farms a day; so you’ll appreciate that any load restraint system does not need to effect too much on the unloading time or the complexity thereof.
I would add that most of the load tends to be full pallets of 1 tonne each, either 40 or 50 bags per pallet.
As above, that vehicle, and others like it, was properly specced for the job; first one of this design appeared in 2010. My employers consulted with the drivers to ensure the vehicle did the job properly, which it does.
BTW, I do hope you learned a bit more than that on your H&S course; anyone who’s even moved house let alone driven a lorry would regard your example as a prime statement of the bleedin’ obvious! 
If the vehicle is properly specced for the job it must be an ‘XL’ type otherwise it is not properly specced for the job as described. However - with pallets at the weight you say then an ‘XL’ design alone probably won’t be enough.
Unfortunately there are many vehicles out there - brand new - but not to the correct specification for the job in hand.
If you only carry the items you described it is an ideal opportunity to have the vehicle built specifically to overcome what ever issues there may be - unlike those involved in general haulage who carry a multitude of things and can’t be geared up for them all.
If we apply the VOSA load security matrix to your load as you have described it - it might result in a PG9 and potential fine for the driver.
shep532:
If we apply the VOSA load security matrix to your load as you have described it - it might result in a PG9 and potential fine for the driver.
My thoughts exactly. Think a conversation with our TM is in order.
EN 12642 XL specification for strength of a load bearing curtain taken from Don Bur website.
Sides Should withstand a force equivalent to:
(0.4 x Payload Weight) / ((Side Height x 0.75) x Vehicle Length**)
Height must be a minimum of 1.6m
13.7m 28T trailer example (2.8m high curtain):
(0.4 x 28) / ((2.8 x 0.75) x 13.7) = 0.389 tonnes = 389 kg
Wow that’s a really strong curtain.
