VOSA, Facebook.. Targeting Curtainsiders this Crimbo?

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
21

axletramp:
The whole job has been dumbed down to fit the One Size Fits All mentality of modern day H & S requirements.
Not only do we already have armed forces, police forces etc., there’s now a veritable army of other “officers”, cameras everywhere, council spies and interfering nobheads bent on self - importancy.
This is just how ■■■■ Germany started…

there was something in the news yesterday about our armed forces not being able to do their job properly because of european human rights legislation… there are literally hundreds of office staff sorting out court cases …

so if you’re in Afghanistan and getting shot at by the Taliban, you need to get the rule book out to see if its ok to shoot back…
Its a joke…

22

Screenshots from:

Moving On September 2013 - VOSA’s newsletter for the HGV and PSV industry
Vehicle & Operator Services Agency sent this bulletin at 09-09-2013 09:50 AM BST


Explains the Internal straps situation.

23

The upside is maybe they will give tippers a rest. I thought that was all they stopped.

24

jerrikan:
The upside is maybe they will give tippers a rest. I thought that was all they stopped.

That’s not an upside. There is however a downside; that this will effectively make some deliveries impossible.

So, here’s my scenario. I carry pallets loaded with bags of animal feeds; these can be either 20 or 25 kg bags shrink-wrapped or 500kg tote bags. Neither are particularly suited to being strapped over with ratchets due to the nature of the contents. Not only do they risk breaking the small plastic bags, but particularly with the tote bags the contents will shift and allow the straps to slacken off, rendering the restraint useless probably within 100 yards of leaving the mill.

Second problem. My vehicle (8x2 Renault) is designed to carry a 16.5 tonne payload but due to carrying a Moffett on the back, the body only takes 14 pallet base, the rest being double-stacked as half pallets. When internal straps are being used, this of course is not a problem; with ratchets it means getting the strap over the top, which in turn means the driver having to climb onto the load bed, then up onto the load(risking further damage to both himself and the load) set the strap and come down again, it being against H&S regs for him to be on the bed whilst it’s being loaded. Repeat twice to obtain maximum payload, which we frequently carry. The gap between the roof and the double-stacked pallet is not sufficient to throw the strap through, as the overall height of the vehicle is only 12’6", the most you really want on farm lanes.

Now, this lorry was built new in 2013, and one would assume that my employers consider it fit for purpose as issued to me i.e. fitted with internal straps. I wonder if VOSA will agree with them? :confused:

25

VOSA should be dealing with this on a case by case basis and even do site visits for consulatations to issue excemption notices when current working practices are deemed safe by the company and more importantly the drivers, and their is a history to back this up…

But that would require a logical thinking approach rather than a blanket matrix on what they deem to be an unsafe load.

26

Sidevalve:

jerrikan:
The upside is maybe they will give tippers a rest. I thought that was all they stopped.

That’s not an upside. There is however a downside; that this will effectively make some deliveries impossible.

So, here’s my scenario. I carry pallets loaded with bags of animal feeds; these can be either 20 or 25 kg bags shrink-wrapped or 500kg tote bags. Neither are particularly suited to being strapped over with ratchets due to the nature of the contents. Not only do they risk breaking the small plastic bags, but particularly with the tote bags the contents will shift and allow the straps to slacken off, rendering the restraint useless probably within 100 yards of leaving the mill.

Second problem. My vehicle (8x2 Renault) is designed to carry a 16.5 tonne payload but due to carrying a Moffett on the back, the body only takes 14 pallet base, the rest being double-stacked as half pallets. When internal straps are being used, this of course is not a problem; with ratchets it means getting the strap over the top, which in turn means the driver having to climb onto the load bed, then up onto the load(risking further damage to both himself and the load) set the strap and come down again, it being against H&S regs for him to be on the bed whilst it’s being loaded. Repeat twice to obtain maximum payload, which we frequently carry. The gap between the roof and the double-stacked pallet is not sufficient to throw the strap through, as the overall height of the vehicle is only 12’6", the most you really want on farm lanes.

Now, this lorry was built new in 2013, and one would assume that my employers consider it fit for purpose as issued to me i.e. fitted with internal straps. I wonder if VOSA will agree with them? :confused:

Looks like you could be on a sticky one there mate, don’t know how you will get out of that one. I don’t drive a tipper, or have any problems with them, I have just noticed that every check point I pass they seem to have mainly tippers in there.

27

There’s only one way around all the bureaucratic BS and miss-interpretation…

28

It’s not that difficult to strap and secure a load. Most of the time the ’ in my experience’ or ’ I’ve never had that move’ group of drivers just can’t be bothered to strap the load. Yes, years ago you all ran round with no straps etc,etc, but times change and we all have to play by the rules like them or not! Personally, I will strap every load I need to and take as long as it takes! Better that than a fine!

29

rgt1973:
It’s not that difficult to strap and secure a load. Most of the time the ’ in my experience’ or ’ I’ve never had that move’ group of drivers just can’t be bothered to strap the load. Yes, years ago you all ran round with no straps etc,etc, but times change and we all have to play by the rules like them or not! Personally, I will strap every load I need to and take as long as it takes! Better that than a fine!

Well bully for you, aren’t you the model employee. I strap mine as well, but that is not the point being made here.

The whole point about this is that even if we DO strap the loads, using kit which has been perfectly acceptable for everyone up to now, we get nicked. In other words,seemingly without any consultation between VOSA, hauliers and bodybuilders, the goalposts seem to have been moved, and as usual it’s the poor bloody driver who’s getting it in the shorts.

Times change, you say. Yes they do; we now have vehicles with self-levelling air suspension, ABS, traction control and a host of other toys which theoretically should make it possible to use LESS load restraint not more; not that I’m advocating that. Many of us have trackers fitted, more of us comply with NSL’s than ever before, lorries are easier to drive and much easier to stop. Jacknifing, in the proper sense of the word, is almost unheard of, tyre blowouts are much less frequent, overall HGV’s are vastly safer than they’ve ever been. So why this exaggerated insistence on strapping loads? And if we do all comply, what will they find to hit us with next?

30

:
There’s only one way around all the bureaucratic BS and miss-interpretation…

Given that I’ve probably seen more containers on their sides than any other form of trailer except bulk waste, i wouldn’t put too much faith in that.

31

Sidevalve:

:
There’s only one way around all the bureaucratic BS and miss-interpretation…

Given that I’ve probably seen more containers on their sides than any other form of trailer except bulk waste, i wouldn’t put too much faith in that.

Totally agree.

When I’ve ever moved containers it has always been a issue for me to check the load.
Yeah it may be in a metal box, but so what?

If That container has been loaded incorrectly and you perhaps have a rollover due to load shift where. Is your defence?

You can’t stand up in court and say you took a load out on the public highway without checking it out first?

Container/trailer seals are a company procedure and not a legal requirement so anyone can break them,before they check if that load is suitable takeout on the highway.

32

chester:

Sidevalve:

:
There’s only one way around all the bureaucratic BS and miss-interpretation…

Container/trailer seals are a company procedure and not a legal requirement so anyone can break them,before they check if that load is suitable takeout on the highway.

Good luck with that, i delivered a container loaded with garlic to an outfit in essex a few years back, hm customs raided the yard, broke the seal on my ‘box’ and found a substantial amount of class a drugs, my only defence was that the seal that was on the container was the same one noted on the cmr!

33

So if you had checked your load before departure? You perhaps wouldn’t be drug running.

You do know the fines for truck drivers bringing illegals into the country?

Not checking your load is no defence ever for prosecution.

34

ashbyspannerman:

chester:

Sidevalve:

:
There’s only one way around all the bureaucratic BS and miss-interpretation…

Container/trailer seals are a company procedure and not a legal requirement so anyone can break them,before they check if that load is suitable takeout on the highway.

Good luck with that, i delivered a container loaded with garlic to an outfit in essex a few years back, hm customs raided the yard, broke the seal on my ‘box’ and found a substantial amount of class a drugs, my only defence was that the seal that was on the container was the same one noted on the cmr!

Shhh

Let Trucknet’s Territorial VOSA, weekend wheeltappers, have their fun. :laughing:

35

rgt1973:
It’s not that difficult to strap and secure a load.

No one’s saying it’s difficult. But I would argue that a blanket approach to strapping loads with frankly menaingless restraints such as internal roof mounted straps on curtainsiders makes a load less safe rather than more so. How many drivers will just blindly strap a load “because it’s the law” rather than taking the time to consider what might actually need strapping and what probably won’t? And how many have considered that having a load strapped is potentially more dangerous for the driver than not? The whole blanket approach to load security is ultimately taking away the drivers’ ability to think and apply common sense and this is not good for anyone in the long term.

36

chester:
So if you had checked your load before departure? You perhaps wouldn’t be drug running.

You do know the fines for truck drivers bringing illegals into the country?

Not checking your load is no defence ever for prosecution.

What can you do though? You can’t possibly go through every single container you pick up with a fine tooth comb.

37

Rhythm Thief:

chester:
So if you had checked your load before departure? You perhaps wouldn’t be drug running.

You do know the fines for truck drivers bringing illegals into the country?

Not checking your load is no defence ever for prosecution.

What can you do though? You can’t possibly go through every single container you pick up with a fine tooth comb.

Of course you can’t, but at least we as drivers must be able to give a quick visual check of the Shipment so we are happy to take it out on the Roads.

38

chester:

Rhythm Thief:

chester:
So if you had checked your load before departure? You perhaps wouldn’t be drug running.

You do know the fines for truck drivers bringing illegals into the country?

Not checking your load is no defence ever for prosecution.

What can you do though? You can’t possibly go through every single container you pick up with a fine tooth comb.

Of course you can’t, but at least we as drivers must be able to give a quick visual check of the Shipment so we are happy to take it out on the Roads.

Fair point, but a quick visual check of the load probably wouldn’t have found the drugs hidden in Ashbyspannerman’s container, and would merely have got him into trouble for rolling up with a container spang full of squidgy black with no seal on it.

39

Yeah I agree a visual check may not find illegal drugs.

We were talking about containers and rollovers! :unamused:

Not checking your load for example, a CNC milling machine on one side, and 20 boxes of pot noodles on the other side.

Just because a box has a seal doesn’t make it safe.

40

Sidevalve:
Given that I’ve probably seen more containers on their sides than any other form of trailer except bulk waste, i wouldn’t put too much faith in that.

There’s only one person to blame when that happens, the driver.

It’s not hard to secure a container or even to drive appropriately.

chester:
Yeah I agree a visual check may not find illegal drugs.

We were talking about containers and rollovers! :unamused:

Not checking your load for example, a CNC milling machine on one side, and 20 boxes of pot noodles on the other side.

Just because a box has a seal doesn’t make it safe.

Indeed, but it’s not the drivers responsibility to load it safely, unless he does actually load it!

The driver is responsible for securing the container on the trailer (if he can’t do that then he shouldn’t be allowed near a toy car let alone anything bigger), checking the given weight does not overload axles/GTW and how he drives.

Back to Curtains…

All I have been able to deduce from what VOSA are implementing is that curtains, regardless of whether they are load bearing or not, are not suitable for load restraining.

That is moving the goal posts contradictory to EU/BS standards on load bearing curtains.

The future…

The whole subject of palatalised loads and securing of said loads needs clarifying in a standard easy to read (understand?) format.

Also some of the responsibility needs to be moved from the driver alone.

Securing the product to pallets should be the responsibility of the warehouse/factory/loader.
The securing of the pallet to load bed should be the responsibility of the driver.

The driver would still have to be responsible for refusing pallets that are clearly not following the guide lines, i.e. a 150kg water pump secured to a pallet with string (exaggeration for clarity).

LIKE THAT’S EVER GOING TO HAPPEN

There are far to many combinations of loads, pallets, IBC’s and too many people making to many interpretations of the rules/laws/guide lines to get a correct answer. We are vulnerable to whoever at VOSA stops us and how he reads it and all the BS strapping does is set a standard that he will apply to every curtain sided vehicle whether that strapping was correctly done or not.

Personally I stay away from curtains where ever possible, it’s the only way (for now).