Driving down the M6 on night shift last night “I was thinking” (I was driving with due care and attention) why is it that drivers have such a dislike for VOSA?
Surely it is conceivable to even the worst critics that their presence is in the interests of everyone.
Health and Safety regulations not only prevent incidents but also increases productivity and efficiency.
Driving is changing and the academic ability to become a driver is being tested. Even moderate knowledge for the occupation can be complex. As posts on here show that even trainers are unclear of differing aspects of regulation and law but we have to know. Would it be academically necessary to have GCSE’s in Maths and English B or C and a science subject to show a level of ability. Vosa are pushing all boundaries for change.
If a driver is not carrying out his duties correctly and is sufficiently trained to know that he is not, what reason does anyone have to complain, when you’re fined or worse sacked?
Vosa fine a driver and also the operator for instance. So would it be that what they are doing is empowering the driver to be able to make unilateral decisions regardless of the outside pressures they are exposed too. The pressure for the operator is to ensure that the driver is knowledgeable and competent to do the work and that their vehicles are up to scratch.
Perhaps it is the duty of the driver to stand up for themselves and realise the power that Vosa have given them and not constantly rebuke what perhaps should be considered a long awaited change for drivers. That is Vosa giving drivers powers that they have previously never had.
VOSA don’t exist anymore! did the ministry not exist forty years ago? I’ve never heard of an operator being fined! maybe the DRIVER! ££££££££££££s they can fine you " the driver " whatever figure they make UP!
I don’t personally have any gripe with VOSA or the DVSA as they have become and yes operators do get fined heavily too.
In fact,not always but most of the time, if a driver incurs a fine then the operator does too. Insecure loads, hours breaches, defects etc. will see the operator penalised as well as the driver. VOSA don’t decide how much the fine is either, they are all pre-set amounts and any variable is usually set in a court appearance.
FLIP:
I don’t personally have any grioe with VOSA or the DVSA as they hsve become and yes operators do get fined heavily too. In fact,not always but most of the time if a driver i curs a fine then the operator does too. Insecure loads, hours breaches, defects etc will see yhe operator penalised as well as the driver. VOSA don’t decide how much the fine is either they are all pre-set amounts and any variable is usually set in a court appearance.
People that have a grip with VOSA have either no understanding of their job or blatantly run or operate outside the law…
and half of them have never even come into contact with them.
much like people have a problem with plod they slag and knock them till some scroat does something against them or their family then plod becomes their best friend…
I think the reason why they r hated is because its the amount of time it takes them to do they checks on ur card and lorry.if the had u in and out with let’s say 15 mins. I 'be been pulled a few times if different area’s. 45 mins in Carlisle once,a few months later I was in and out of Carlisle within 15 mins,so why in the same checkpoint was there 30 mins in the diffence in 2 different officers??.another time in Doncaster I was pulled,the officer said we will be with u in 10 mins.so I asked him if I could go into the service for a coffee while I waited.he said of course u can,in fact if u want to can wait 15 mins and use it has a spilt break so it suited us both and I was happy if the way I was treated. Now last week I was pulled into sandbach,what a pain,they had 4 other lorry’s pulled, I waited 25 mins to be checked and they check lasted for about another 25 mins. Now Iddidn’t say nothing but why the hell were the pulling lorry’s into checkpoints if the hadn’t the time to do their checks sooner. Now I do have to say that most officer r very nice people.only came across 2 hateful officers in which I said nothing until I was about to leave the check points and then told them what I thought of them.
Fatboy slimslow:
VOSA don’t exist anymore! did the ministry not exist forty years ago? I’ve never heard of an operator being fined! maybe the DRIVER! ££££££££££££s they can fine you " the driver " whatever figure they make UP!
Fatboy if you take the time to read Commercial Motor each week you will see just how many operators are hauled through the Courts.and Public Enquiries. The operators are fair game now as well as the drivers. Eddie’
The problem Miketaurus is this. From your post it’s possible to see that you are educated. This also means you have an understanding of how things work. Most drivers (as Nick has said) have neither had any contact with DVSA, other than MMTM £60 a turn stories, or they know DVSA on a first name terms. This is not usually a coincidence.
I have been stopped once in over 9 years and I pass a frequently manned checkpoint most days.
It does seem that when there is a negative comment about them, all and sundry jump on the bandwagon. When you question them as to why they have a genuine grievance with DVSA, they often don’t hold up to scrutiny.
Milkchurns- you’re either very unlucky or there’s a reason you keep getting stopped. On the plus side, keep getting a clean sheet an your stops will be less frequent.
It wouldn’t be too bad if they didn’t scrutinise silly bits of legislation.
You don’t need a vosa officer with a clipboard and government checklist to tell if a load is secure, You need an experienced man that knows what’s right and what isn’t.
There’s no tollerance with the rules and regs. Take the 90 hour rule. A driver may be within his 9 hours driving that day and only a short distance from home, But he may have driven 91 hours, He’s parked up and fined rather than allowing him to go home for a few days.
Being a bit flexible with the rules rather than looking for any excuse to collect taxes and concentrating on safety rather than regulation should be the order of the day.
m1cks:
The problem Miketaurus is this. From your post it’s possible to see that you are educated. This also means you have an understanding of how things work. Most drivers (as Nick has said) have neither had any contact with DVSA, other than MMTM £60 a turn stories, or they know DVSA on a first name terms. This is not usually a coincidence.
I have been stopped once in over 9 years and I pass a frequently manned checkpoint most days.
It does seem that when there is a negative comment about them, all and sundry jump on the bandwagon. When you question them as to why they have a genuine grievance with DVSA, they often don’t hold up to scrutiny.
Milkchurns- you’re either very unlucky or there’s a reason you keep getting stopped. On the plus side, keep getting a clean sheet an your stops will be less frequent.
unlucky last time I got tugged was Jn18 about to join the M4 heading for Kemsley that must be 24years ago …
ooh no just remembered I got a tug by plod on the M1 with the flags in the window 23yrs ago was a young lad then
I’ve been tugged by VOSA once and they were polite and professional. I knew I had some minor infringements on my card and thought I was going to get [zb], but they ignored it, did a brief vehicle check (only fault was algae in fuel line!!!) and sent me on my way.
Got a lot of respect for them. They are only trying to stop the drivers and operators who take the mick.
I drive Irish reg lorry’s in some of the hot spots like Holyhead,Carlisleand castlekenny. Driving 15 years in and out of the uUK and only parked once in perry bar,years ago b4 the Vosa.cops pulled 3 of us and we were parked for 24 hours.I think we ended up parked longer because we went drinking. I drove for PDL years ago,jaysus I don’tknow why we had beds in llorry’s back then,never used them much, 3 Southampton loads in a week, at the end of the day if Vosa were not about we would still be at it, nowadays we get to bed without been called a lightweight, after I gave a officer a mouthful 1 time she turned and said I didn’tlike vVosa. I told her I hadnt because only for them we wouldn’t get to bed.so i’m not against the Vosa but I do hate the way the can ■■■■■ food around doing their checks.nowadays we can be tight for time without losing an hour in a checkpoint, I wouldn’t mind driving into a checkpoint every week if they could have u in and out within 10-15 mins. And a coffee while u wait would be nice too.
seeing the comments being about the waiting time they prob should be pulling in noticeable defects to hold and check , and random checks when they have a bay free, the random would be in and out quicker then.
m1cks:
The problem Miketaurus is this. From your post it’s possible to see that you are educated. This also means you have an understanding of how things work. Most drivers (as Nick has said) have neither had any contact with DVSA, other than MMTM £60 a turn stories, or they know DVSA on a first name terms. This is not usually a coincidence.
I have been stopped once in over 9 years and I pass a frequently manned checkpoint most days.
It does seem that when there is a negative comment about them, all and sundry jump on the bandwagon. When you question them as to why they have a genuine grievance with DVSA, they often don’t hold up to scrutiny.
Milkchurns- you’re either very unlucky or there’s a reason you keep getting stopped. On the plus side, keep getting a clean sheet an your stops will be less frequent.
I realise VOSA are going to be persona non grata!! Vosa and drivers are not going to be inviting each other to their Christmas party’s in the very future either
Yes, as quick as that there is a time issue from the drivers. That could possibly be a perverse abuse of power or maybe an ignorance in not understanding that, actually outside of Vosa’s bubble is an industry where minutes matter.
I actually looked this afternoon after my Zzzzzz time to try and find a Vosa statement of purpose. No luck.
Do they have consultations with hauliers? For something like “Best Practice” or “Industry Standards and Guidance” that are available to drivers to understand.
It is a problem for drivers who are basing their knowledge on trainers who are not fully conversant with what they are teaching themselves. What chance have drivers got?
m1cks:
The problem Miketaurus is this. From your post it’s possible to see that you are educated. This also means you have an understanding of how things work. Most drivers (as Nick has said) have neither had any contact with DVSA, other than MMTM £60 a turn stories, or they know DVSA on a first name terms. This is not usually a coincidence.
I have been stopped once in over 9 years and I pass a frequently manned checkpoint most days.
It does seem that when there is a negative comment about them, all and sundry jump on the bandwagon. When you question them as to why they have a genuine grievance with DVSA, they often don’t hold up to scrutiny.
Milkchurns- you’re either very unlucky or there’s a reason you keep getting stopped. On the plus side, keep getting a clean sheet an your stops will be less frequent.
I realise VOSA are going to be persona non grata!! Vosa and drivers are not going to be inviting each other to their Christmas party’s in the very future either
Yes, as quick as that there is a time issue from the drivers. That could possibly be a perverse abuse of power or maybe an ignorance in not understanding that, actually outside of Vosa’s bubble is an industry where minutes matter.
I actually looked this afternoon after my Zzzzzz time to try and find a Vosa statement of purpose. No luck.
Do they have consultations with hauliers?
persona non grata
were taking drivers here not scholars
Slightly off topic, but how would you stand if you being pulled over and kept hanging around was going to throw you over your WTD hours?
I don’t run as close to the bone as I used to, but it’d be good to know if I had a case to argue if I got a tug, and needed to be back. I’ve only got a day cab after all.
PaulNowak:
Slightly off topic, but how would you stand if you being pulled over and kept hanging around was going to throw you over your WTD hours?
I don’t run as close to the bone as I used to, but it’d be good to know if I had a case to argue if I got a tug, and needed to be back. I’ve only got a day cab after all.
No one would be interested as none of the authorities at home or abroad check WTD hours.
The only people interested in the WTD are none job jobsworths at large haulage firms.
Driving down the M6 on night shift last night “I was thinking” (I was driving with due care and attention) why is it that drivers have such a dislike for VOSA?
Surely it is conceivable to even the worst critics that their presence is in the interests of everyone.
Health and Safety regulations not only prevent incidents but also increases productivity and efficiency.
Driving is changing and the academic ability to become a driver is being tested. Even moderate knowledge for the occupation can be complex. As posts on here show that even trainers are unclear of differing aspects of regulation and law but we have to know. Would it be academically necessary to have GCSE’s in Maths and English B or C and a science subject to show a level of ability. Vosa are pushing all boundaries for change.
If a driver is not carrying out his duties correctly and is sufficiently trained to know that he is not, what reason does anyone have to complain, when you’re fined or worse sacked?
Vosa fine a driver and also the operator for instance. So would it be that what they are doing is empowering the driver to be able to make unilateral decisions regardless of the outside pressures they are exposed too. The pressure for the operator is to ensure that the driver is knowledgeable and competent to do the work and that their vehicles are up to scratch.
Perhaps it is the duty of the driver to stand up for themselves and realise the power that Vosa have given them and not constantly rebuke what perhaps should be considered a long awaited change for drivers. That is Vosa giving drivers powers that they have previously never had.
Just a different perspective maybe.
VOSA/DVSA whatever you want to call them is a bad thing for drivers. What you are talking about really is their spot checking of vehicles, and ensuring compliance with drivers hours when out and about on the roads. I don’t buy the fact that this is for saftey for one minute. Infact their whole “business model” evolves around issuing FPN’s, and the law has even been taylored to suit the model in a wider scope (i.e deposits).
The whole traffic light system is flawed from the very start. Think about it for a minute. Green means a good operator so they don’t tend to pull them over. Red or Amber requires them to be checked? Why let someone you know to be ‘dodgy’ out on the road in the first place? MOT tests are computerised now and drivers hours in the main are recorded in digital format. Its easy to go into a yard and inspect a company, why wait until they’re out on the road?
Operators are responsible for drivers hours, this is never reflected in any FPN a driver may recieve for a breach of them. I know, someones gonna say the operator might get a visit if their drivers are breaking the law, if and when they do they are "advised’ on how to progress correctly. The driver at the roadside recieves no such “advice”, or if he does unlike his boss he’ll pay for the advice.
There’s been loads of horror photos posted here in the past by enforcement officers of unroadworthy vehicles being out on the road. Brake chambers missing, tied off, brake discs cracked or seperated from the hubs. etc…Hows an average walkround check gonna detect that? Its not, you rely on your operators checking /inspection regime. Its the driver who gets fined for it if stopped though, not the operator.
Its an antiquated regime from a time when we didn’t have fast access to data/information. Its been kept on because it pays to keep it on. After all as we know, they’re not random checks.
As an analogy the Police will sometimes ignore small time drug dealers to catch Mr.Big, the way it works with lorry drivers is they get a pay off from the drivers when something wrong and leave Mr.Big alone !!!
All they’ve got to do is make sure the operators comply with the conditions set by the TC’s, they can do this by visiting the operators. To easy though and wouldn’t satisfy the business model.
Driving down the M6 on night shift last night “I was thinking” (I was driving with due care and attention) why is it that drivers have such a dislike for VOSA?
Surely it is conceivable to even the worst critics that their presence is in the interests of everyone.
Health and Safety regulations not only prevent incidents but also increases productivity and efficiency.
Driving is changing and the academic ability to become a driver is being tested. Even moderate knowledge for the occupation can be complex. As posts on here show that even trainers are unclear of differing aspects of regulation and law but we have to know. Would it be academically necessary to have GCSE’s in Maths and English B or C and a science subject to show a level of ability. Vosa are pushing all boundaries for change.
If a driver is not carrying out his duties correctly and is sufficiently trained to know that he is not, what reason does anyone have to complain, when you’re fined or worse sacked?
Vosa fine a driver and also the operator for instance. So would it be that what they are doing is empowering the driver to be able to make unilateral decisions regardless of the outside pressures they are exposed too. The pressure for the operator is to ensure that the driver is knowledgeable and competent to do the work and that their vehicles are up to scratch.
Perhaps it is the duty of the driver to stand up for themselves and realise the power that Vosa have given them and not constantly rebuke what perhaps should be considered a long awaited change for drivers. That is Vosa giving drivers powers that they have previously never had.
Just a different perspective maybe.
VOSA/DVSA whatever you want to call them is a bad thing for drivers. What you are talking about really is their spot checking of vehicles, and ensuring compliance with drivers hours when out and about on the roads. I don’t buy the fact that this is for saftey for one minute. Infact their whole “business model” evolves around issuing FPN’s, and the law has even been taylored to suit the model in a wider scope (i.e deposits).
The whole traffic light system is flawed from the very start. Think about it for a minute. Green means a good operator so they don’t tend to pull them over. Red or Amber requires them to be checked? Why let someone you know to be ‘dodgy’ out on the road in the first place? MOT tests are computerised now and drivers hours in the main are recorded in digital format. Its easy to go into a yard and inspect a company, why wait until they’re out on the road?
Operators are responsible for drivers hours, this is never reflected in any FPN a driver may recieve for a breach of them. I know, someones gonna say the operator might get a visit if their drivers are breaking the law, if and when they do they are "advised’ on how to progress correctly. The driver at the roadside recieves no such “advice”, or if he does unlike his boss he’ll pay for the advice.
There’s been loads of horror photos posted here in the past by enforcement officers of unroadworthy vehicles being out on the road. Brake chambers missing, tied off, brake discs cracked or seperated from the hubs. etc…Hows an average walkround check gonna detect that? Its not, you rely on your operators checking /inspection regime. Its the driver who gets fined for it if stopped though, not the operator.
Its an antiquated regime from a time when we didn’t have fast access to data/information. Its been kept on because it pays to keep it on. After all as we know, they’re not random checks.
As an analogy the Police will sometimes ignore small time drug dealers to catch Mr.Big, the way it works with lorry drivers is they get a pay off from the drivers when something wrong and leave Mr.Big alone !!!
All they’ve got to do is make sure the operators comply with the conditions set by the TC’s, they can do this by visiting the operators. To easy though and wouldn’t satisfy the business model.
Saw that about “deposits” it also said the industry had asked for it!!
PaulNowak:
Slightly off topic, but how would you stand if you being pulled over and kept hanging around was going to throw you over your WTD hours?
I don’t run as close to the bone as I used to, but it’d be good to know if I had a case to argue if I got a tug, and needed to be back. I’ve only got a day cab after all.
No one would be interested as none of the authorities at home or abroad check WTD hours.
The only people interested in the WTD are none job jobsworths at large haulage firms.
miketaurus:
Saw that about “deposits” it also said the industry had asked for it!!
Oh it did Mike. Its a case of its bit us in the arse, if you look back here to discussions years ago (and i may be guilty of it too), it was said along the lines of…its not fair, we get fines and the foreigners get away with it by just going back home never having to answer for their ticket. Well its sorted now, no one is getting away with it !!!
did the ministry not exist forty years ago? 
I’ve never heard of an operator being fined! 
maybe the DRIVER! ££££££££££££s 
they can fine you " the driver " whatever figure they make UP! 
