Nick2008…Scholars wear square black hats with a frilly curtain tie back hanging down from it. I was gifted a cone shape one with a letter embroidered on it 
limeyphil:
The only people interested in the WTD are none job jobsworths at large haulage firms.
Which is really odd as it lays down minimum breaks for an employee to stop them from exploitation by their employer. You’d think drivers would welcome it.
well we the drivers would be a lot worse off if they werent there
scotstrucker:
well we the drivers would be a lot worse off if they werent there
How?
milkchurns:
Now last week I was pulled into sandbach,what a pain,they had 4 other lorry’s pulled, I waited 25 mins to be checked and they check lasted for about another 25 mins. Now Iddidn’t say nothing but why the hell were the pulling lorry’s into checkpoints if the hadn’t the time to do their checks sooner.
Probably because you looked a bit dodgy.
Mike-C:
VOSA/DVSA whatever you want to call them is a bad thing for drivers. What you are talking about really is their spot checking of vehicles, and ensuring compliance with drivers hours when out and about on the roads. I don’t buy the fact that this is for saftey for one minute.
With all due respect I disagree, my last employed job involved being transhipped from vehicles at Dover Western Docks which had been stopped by VOSA and given GV9’s, I’ve seen a wheel held on by only four wheel nuts because the rest of the wheel had broken off, a fully-freighted trailer with only one out of six brakes working, trucks and trailers with wire hanging out of the tyres, personally I’d glad there’s a Government agency which deals with trucks compliance.
Harry Monk:
Mike-C:
VOSA/DVSA whatever you want to call them is a bad thing for drivers. What you are talking about really is their spot checking of vehicles, and ensuring compliance with drivers hours when out and about on the roads. I don’t buy the fact that this is for saftey for one minute.With all due respect I disagree, my last employed job involved being transhipped from vehicles at Dover Western Docks which had been stopped by VOSA and given GV9’s, I’ve seen a wheel held on by only four wheel nuts because the rest of the wheel had broken off, a fully-freighted trailer with only one out of six brakes working, trucks and trailers with wire hanging out of the tyres, personally I’d glad there’s a Government agency which deals with trucks compliance.
The point i’m trying to make is that what you are pointing out indicates a systemic failure. If you identify this how would you police it? Visit them and make sure they undertake compliance or ask them to and check them when they’re out and about, which method is the safest ?
I’m not against an agency that deals with compliance. I’m saying its pulling the dogs tail instead of getting hold of the lead.
You haul other peoples trailers? Do you rely partly on the hope they have them inspected and maintained or do you pull a crawl board out and get someone to operate a brake pedal whilst you’re underneath a trailer checking it everytime you pick one up?
erfguy:
Fatboy slimslow:
VOSA don’t exist anymore!did the ministry not exist forty years ago?
maybe the DRIVER! ££££££££££££s
they can fine you " the driver " whatever figure they make UP!
Fatboy if you take the time to read Commercial Motor each week you will see just how many operators are hauled through the Courts.and Public Enquiries. The operators are fair game now as well as the drivers. Eddie’
dont really get fined though do they! Drivers do
Mike-C:
The whole traffic light system is flawed from the very start. Think about it for a minute. Green means a good operator so they don’t tend to pull them over. Red or Amber requires them to be checked? Why let someone you know to be ‘dodgy’ out on the road in the first place? MOT tests are computerised now and drivers hours in the main are recorded in digital format. Its easy to go into a yard and inspect a company, why wait until they’re out on the road?There’s been loads of horror photos posted here in the past by enforcement officers of unroadworthy vehicles being out on the road. Brake chambers missing, tied off, brake discs cracked or seperated from the hubs. etc…Hows an average walkround check gonna detect that? Its not, you rely on your operators checking /inspection regime. Its the driver who gets fined for it if stopped though, not the operator.
Its an antiquated regime from a time when we didn’t have fast access to data/information. Its been kept on because it pays to keep it on. After all as we know, they’re not random checks.All they’ve got to do is make sure the operators comply with the conditions set by the TC’s, they can do this by visiting the operators. To easy though and wouldn’t satisfy the business model.
If you want to talk about Vosa or enforcement how would visiting a yard stop this
twitter.com/NWmwaypolice/status … 0665162755
Much of the stuff you quoted about brake chambers, disks etc should be picked up checking regime so maybe that’s just not good enough or overlooking basic stuff, I was never over 6 weeks between checks when I had a truck,
I have worked with others who’s trucks are quite frankly a danger on the road on one occasion one of the more ‘check averse’ drivers had a wheel come off straight through the windscreen of an artic coming the other way, totally unnecessarily, so until operator’s can be trusted to act reasonably there will be a need for the old Vosa new Dvsa or whatever they are called this week.
Mike-C:
The point i’m trying to make is that what you are pointing out indicates a systemic failure. If you identify this how would you police it? Visit them and make sure they undertake compliance or ask them to and check them when they’re out and about, which method is the safest ?
I’m not against an agency that deals with compliance. I’m saying its pulling the dogs tail instead of getting hold of the lead.
You haul other peoples trailers? Do you rely partly on the hope they have them inspected and maintained or do you pull a crawl board out and get someone to operate a brake pedal whilst you’re underneath a trailer checking it everytime you pick one up?
To a degree I agree with you, but operator enforcement in some countries is virtually non-existent- and yes, cards on the table, I am saying “eastern Europe” here- and so we have to have a VOSA to take up that slack.
And if there wasn’t a VOSA I’m sure many British operators would be expecting their drivers to work 20 hours a day “because if you won’t do it, I get a dozen blokes in here every day after your job”.
Mike-C:
limeyphil:
The only people interested in the WTD are none job jobsworths at large haulage firms.Which is really odd as it lays down minimum breaks for an employee to stop them from exploitation by their employer. You’d think drivers would welcome it.
We have a set of rules already.
The WTD hours don’t include, breaks and poa. So a 15 hour shift at work is usually 9.5 to 10.5 hours for WTD purposes.
It’s just not worth thinking about unless they start to include poa and breaks.
Mike-C:
Harry Monk:
Mike-C:
VOSA/DVSA whatever you want to call them is a bad thing for drivers. What you are talking about really is their spot checking of vehicles, and ensuring compliance with drivers hours when out and about on the roads. I don’t buy the fact that this is for saftey for one minute.With all due respect I disagree, my last employed job involved being transhipped from vehicles at Dover Western Docks which had been stopped by VOSA and given GV9’s, I’ve seen a wheel held on by only four wheel nuts because the rest of the wheel had broken off, a fully-freighted trailer with only one out of six brakes working, trucks and trailers with wire hanging out of the tyres, personally I’d glad there’s a Government agency which deals with trucks compliance.
The point i’m trying to make is that what you are pointing out indicates a systemic failure. If you identify this how would you police it? Visit them and make sure they undertake compliance or ask them to and check them when they’re out and about, which method is the safest ?
I’m not against an agency that deals with compliance. I’m saying its pulling the dogs tail instead of getting hold of the lead.
You haul other peoples trailers? Do you rely partly on the hope they have them inspected and maintained or do you pull a crawl board out and get someone to operate a brake pedal whilst you’re underneath a trailer checking it everytime you pick one up?
you’d know if your breaks weren’t right … most big company’s have systems in place such as service week and mot due dates on them, yes this don’t mean the trailers 100% . its relies on driver doing a full and correct PUI not oh ok 4 wheels and lights.
I put a trl through the wash last night, the rear fog lens got flicked off obviously been over tightened on a bulb replacement and weekend it, did I do what a lot of drivers do just say squat, na just report it and its sorted, no nonsense no agro nothing I eve let the shunter know so he didn’t bay it up…
Comes down to drivers helping drivers to stay legal and saying No to bosses when told to take a faulty trailer regardless of who owns it or where its come from…
limeyphil:
Mike-C:
limeyphil:
The only people interested in the WTD are none job jobsworths at large haulage firms.Which is really odd as it lays down minimum breaks for an employee to stop them from exploitation by their employer. You’d think drivers would welcome it.
We have a set of rules already.
The WTD hours don’t include, breaks and poa. So a 15 hour shift at work is usually 9.5 to 10.5 hours for WTD purposes.
It’s just not worth thinking about unless they start to include poa and breaks.
Phil. i don’t understand what you’ve just said because it makes no sense. Without the WTD and relying on the EU regs we have now it is possible for a driver/worker to go all day without a break. The WTD ensures you can have a break. Think of the WTD as enshrining you some rights rather than a set of rules. They are after all a set of rules your employer should adhere to to ensure your minimum rights.
Mike-C:
scotstrucker:
well we the drivers would be a lot worse off if they werent thereHow?
it would be back too the 80’s and early 90’s where most drivers were doing 90 too a 100 hours a week as the drivers and the gaffers knew there was little chance of getting caught. was not uncommon for lads from the northeast of scotland too be leaving aberdeen at 5pm for a 6am delivery at mandela way in london then after tipping do collections around london (or if you were lucky 1 pick up) and hoof it straight back too the northeast of scotland and repeat it another twice and manage a glasgow at the end of the week. i for one wouldnt like too try that nowadays with all the apnr cameras that are springing up on motorways, duel carriageways, a roads and even some b roads.
i for one am glad there doing what there doing as it’s now making drivers think before doing it coz get caught now ( n i dont mean minor infringements) then it aint only a fine, it’s possibly time at her Majestys pleasure aswell then theres the visit to the tc, and i wouldnt think that before long they will also be applying to courts for the cash the drivers made with the illegal driving they did.
It isn’t possible to go all day without a break. it isn’t allowed in employment law and it isn’t allowed under EU driver regs.
Domestic driving regs don’t include breaks, but employment law would mean that breaks would be required anyway.
speedyguy:
If you want to talk about Vosa or enforcement how would visiting a yard stop this
twitter.com/NWmwaypolice/status … 0665162755
We havn’t got the full story here.
- Overweight,… well thats a case of fact, he either is or he isn’t.
- No Insurance…well the Operator either has insurance or he doesn’t, again its a case of fact. As you well know employed drivers are guilty of no such thing.
- No licence…ran out, expired, never renewed medical, never had one in the first place? What, what was it?
In anycase, is there a suggestion that some random guy has managed to infiltrate an Operator of good repute (which they’re all supposed to be) and go and get an overweight load in the truck and the poor Operator never had a clue? Here you go, lets be more realistic. I appreciate you won’t or can’t say who the Operator was but i’ll guarantee it wasn’t Wincanton !! I know this because Wincanton (and i’m just using them as an example) do have procedures in place that anyone can see. Checking Operators for compliance would reduce the chances of what you’ve posted above even getting on the road. So thats how visiting a yard can stop it.
speedyguy:
Much of the stuff you quoted about brake chambers, disks etc should be picked up checking regime so maybe that’s just not good enough or overlooking basic stuff, I was never over 6 weeks between checks when I had a truck,
I have worked with others who’s trucks are quite frankly a danger on the road on one occasion one of the more ‘check averse’ drivers had a wheel come off straight through the windscreen of an artic coming the other way, totally unnecessarily, so until operator’s can be trusted to act reasonably there will be a need for the old Vosa new Dvsa or whatever they are called this week.
I’m not saying there isn’t a need for VOSA, the question is are they good for drivers? They’re not, the regime at present allows Operators to flout the law and make drivers on the road pay the cost. If trucks/trailers are unroadworthy beyond the remit of a drivers check then they should lose their O licence, nevr mind fining a driver for C&U offence. This currently doesn’t happen. And as your explanation demonstrates the current inspection regime is lacking, and the way of dealing with it is apparently not to address the issue until they are caught out. Little late then isn’t it?
limeyphil:
It isn’t possible to go all day without a break. it isn’t allowed in employment law and it isn’t allowed under EU driver regs.
Domestic driving regs don’t include breaks, but employment law would mean that breaks would be required anyway.
Phil, its going to be difficult for me to have a discussion with you when you don’t appear to have a basic grasp of the legislation. It is possible to go all day without a break, i’ve done it and i posted about it here too at the time. Go Google some laws or summat first and then come back !! 
scotstrucker:
Mike-C:
scotstrucker:
well we the drivers would be a lot worse off if they werent thereHow?
it would be back too the 80’s and early 90’s where most drivers were doing 90 too a 100 hours a week as the drivers and the gaffers knew there was little chance of getting caught. was not uncommon for lads from the northeast of scotland too be leaving aberdeen at 5pm for a 6am delivery at mandela way in london then after tipping do collections around london (or if you were lucky 1 pick up) and hoof it straight back too the northeast of scotland and repeat it another twice and manage a glasgow at the end of the week. i for one wouldnt like too try that nowadays with all the apnr cameras that are springing up on motorways, duel carriageways, a roads and even some b roads.
i for one am glad there doing what there doing as it’s now making drivers think before doing it coz get caught now ( n i dont mean minor infringements) then it aint only a fine, it’s possibly time at her Majestys pleasure aswell then theres the visit to the tc, and i wouldnt think that before long they will also be applying to courts for the cash the drivers made with the illegal driving they did.
Checking charts and delivery notes would reveal this though? I mean we’ve always had Ministry checks, they never revealed anything? An Operator visit may have revealed this stuff?
To the OP, it takes less time to get rid of you than it took you to write the post if you ‘stand up for yourself’. Interpretation and all that?
Mike-C:
miketaurus:
Hi Guys,Driving down the M6 on night shift last night “I was thinking” (I was driving with due care and attention) why is it that drivers have such a dislike for VOSA?
Surely it is conceivable to even the worst critics that their presence is in the interests of everyone.Health and Safety regulations not only prevent incidents but also increases productivity and efficiency.
Driving is changing and the academic ability to become a driver is being tested. Even moderate knowledge for the occupation can be complex. As posts on here show that even trainers are unclear of differing aspects of regulation and law but we have to know. Would it be academically necessary to have GCSE’s in Maths and English B or C and a science subject to show a level of ability. Vosa are pushing all boundaries for change.
If a driver is not carrying out his duties correctly and is sufficiently trained to know that he is not, what reason does anyone have to complain, when you’re fined or worse sacked?
Vosa fine a driver and also the operator for instance. So would it be that what they are doing is empowering the driver to be able to make unilateral decisions regardless of the outside pressures they are exposed too. The pressure for the operator is to ensure that the driver is knowledgeable and competent to do the work and that their vehicles are up to scratch.
Perhaps it is the duty of the driver to stand up for themselves and realise the power that Vosa have given them and not constantly rebuke what perhaps should be considered a long awaited change for drivers. That is Vosa giving drivers powers that they have previously never had.
Just a different perspective maybe.
VOSA/DVSA whatever you want to call them is a bad thing for drivers. What you are talking about really is their spot checking of vehicles, and ensuring compliance with drivers hours when out and about on the roads. I don’t buy the fact that this is for saftey for one minute. Infact their whole “business model” evolves around issuing FPN’s, and the law has even been taylored to suit the model in a wider scope (i.e deposits).
The whole traffic light system is flawed from the very start. Think about it for a minute. Green means a good operator so they don’t tend to pull them over. Red or Amber requires them to be checked? Why let someone you know to be ‘dodgy’ out on the road in the first place? MOT tests are computerised now and drivers hours in the main are recorded in digital format. Its easy to go into a yard and inspect a company, why wait until they’re out on the road?
Operators are responsible for drivers hours, this is never reflected in any FPN a driver may recieve for a breach of them. I know, someones gonna say the operator might get a visit if their drivers are breaking the law, if and when they do they are "advised’ on how to progress correctly. The driver at the roadside recieves no such “advice”, or if he does unlike his boss he’ll pay for the advice.
There’s been loads of horror photos posted here in the past by enforcement officers of unroadworthy vehicles being out on the road. Brake chambers missing, tied off, brake discs cracked or seperated from the hubs. etc…Hows an average walkround check gonna detect that? Its not, you rely on your operators checking /inspection regime. Its the driver who gets fined for it if stopped though, not the operator.
Its an antiquated regime from a time when we didn’t have fast access to data/information. Its been kept on because it pays to keep it on. After all as we know, they’re not random checks.
As an analogy the Police will sometimes ignore small time drug dealers to catch Mr.Big, the way it works with lorry drivers is they get a pay off from the drivers when something wrong and leave Mr.Big alone !!!
All they’ve got to do is make sure the operators comply with the conditions set by the TC’s, they can do this by visiting the operators. To easy though and wouldn’t satisfy the business model.
Cannot believe a moderator of a truck forum made that post, think of the children.