Don’t you think it’s time the government started thinking about the effect the vat has on everyone instead of seeing it just as a source of income to support stupid decisions such as giving the Irish £6billion because they are, to quote their spokesman, ’ A friend in need’. I personally think that diesel should be treated as an essential fuel in the same way as gas and electricity and limited to 5% or at a push 10% vat for HAULIERS. It should be easy enough to prove you are a HAULIER and not just Joe Bloggs using his diesel fuelled car.
VAT goes up to 20% in January and this is only going to make things worse, although virtually all hauliers should be VAT-registered so they can claim it back anyway.
xtruckerlady:
I personally think that diesel should be treated as an essential fuel in the same way as gas and electricity and limited to 5% or at a push 10% vat for HAULIERS. It should be easy enough to prove you are a HAULIER and not just Joe Bloggs using his diesel fuelled car.
Wouldn’t make any difference all hauliers will be claiming the VAT back anyway, or at least if they have any sense they will be.
Harry Monk:
VAT goes up to 20% in January and this is only going to make things worse, although virtually all hauliers should be VAT-registered so they can claim it back anyway.
Agreed, but it would help a lot of them if they didn’t have to pay so much in the first place, and in any case you have to wait up to three months to offset it against your incoming vat.
Well I agree, but unfortunately it has always been the case that you have to do what the people with the guns tell you to do. 
Most of my vat is in before it’s due, only 1 month outstanding, your just a tax collector really.
xtruckerlady:
Harry Monk:
VAT goes up to 20% in January and this is only going to make things worse, although virtually all hauliers should be VAT-registered so they can claim it back anyway.Agreed, but it would help a lot of them if they didn’t have to pay so much in the first place, and in any case you have to wait up to three months to offset it against your incoming vat.
Yes but you have your incoming VAT for up to 4 months before you have to pay it so sort of cancels each other out.
stupid decisions such as giving the Irish £6billion because they are, to quote their spokesman, ’ A friend in need’.
I thought that it was a stupid decision too until I was informed that… the UK is borrowing the money at 1.5% and lending it to ireland at 5%.
IMO it was a stupid idea to drop the VAT rate down to 15% then put it back up to 17.5% before finally putting it up Jan 4th to 20%. Why the hell didn`t they just put it up to 20% instead of dropping it down to 15% then put it back up to 17.5%. It virtually made no difference to companies & retailers, as they just pass on the VAT cost factor to the end consumer.
So I can see it now, every Tom, ■■■■ & harry will be legging it down to their local retail park before Jan 4th to purchase that must have big ticket item (wide screen TV`s etc) just to save 2.5% 
The retailers will be rubbing their hands with glee knowing the punters are mug enough to fall for the ploy too.
Ive got a great (legal) way of side stepping, and not falling for it, & even reclaiming the whole VAT amount on things I buy ..................... yep, you guessed it ............ Im VAT registered
Coffeeholic:
Yes but you have your incoming VAT for up to 4 months before you have to pay it so sort of cancels each other out.
If the bank interest rates where decent, Id make a few quid interest on the VAT money Im holding for HMRC in the bank, before I have to pay them & have a drink or two out of it, but as it is I make just enough for a takeaway on a night out
peirre:
IMO it was a stupid idea to drop the VAT rate down to 15% then put it back up to 17.5% before finally putting it up Jan 4th to 20%. Why the hell didn`t they just put it up to 20% instead of dropping it down to 15%
Because there was an election coming, stoopid!
Harry Monk:
Because there was an election coming, stoopid!
I`d figured that out at the time… as I stated
peirre:
the punters are mug enough to fall for the ploy too.
At the time the discussion around the table in the local bar, between several (VAT reg`d) people inc me, was it made no difference to them, & their businesses … only the end consumer
Where the VAT increase will hit road transport is that it will effectively be a pay cut for the whole country and will mean less money being spent on consumer goods and a corresponding reduction in demand for haulage.
Harry Monk:
Where the VAT increase will hit road transport is that it will effectively be a pay cut for the whole country and will mean less money being spent on consumer goods and a corresponding reduction in demand for haulage.
Where the VAT increase hits transport is that it’s a fuel tax that has to be passed on to the customer who says if I can’t find a cheaper way of shipping it I won’t bother shipping it by road at all.So it then goes by cheaper east european hauliers,who fill up in places like Luxembourg,or by foreign rail transport or air transport instead.It’s not just the VAT on the price of the fuel there’s actually VAT charged on the duty,that’s already put on road fuel,in addition.Higher taxes charged on average earners will also depress the economy in general. So because of the government’s greed it actually gets less tax coming in not more and a wrecked economy to go with it.All of that education at Eton seems to teach them zb all.We’re ruled by a bunch of morons.
It’s a bit deeper than that.
When labour took over from the Tories post Thatcher/Major etc , they promised to bring the NHS, schools and police up to speed ,which meant spending a fortune, mainly because the Tories had cut these services to the bone.
Over the next 2 elections the voters kept telling Labour they wanted more spending on hospitals, schools and especially the police. So they spent.
Then along comes the global financial crash and hey presto …no more money.
Now we have the Tories (and what claimed to be a party i.e. Liberal democrats) who are cutting everything and so the merry-go- round starts again.
When Thatcher came into power she claimed that the unions and working men had driven the country nearly to bankruptcy and proceeded to sell off all the countries assetts to re-finance the country.
The unions and working man have done/had nothing for the last 20 odd years… the money poured into the NHS and education and police is mainly in-house spending so the money mainly stays in the UK… so where has all the money gone?
Certainly not into the pockets of the workers so it must have gone into those industries that make profits, 90% of which are foreign owned. Especially the power companies, water companies etc whose revenues used to go into the exchequer but now go into private profits for foreigners.
All the ■■■■■■■ (sorry mispelt…Bankers) who have been getting fantastic bonuses for losing money.
The working man via the unions can possibly be blamed for what happened pre Thatcher but all the blame since then lies with the “educated, powerful classes” , business leaders who invest abroad instead of in the UK etc, politcians who sell the family jewels for short term gain etc
VIVA la revolution comrades!!!
wow, I feel better after that 
Carryfast:
Harry Monk:
Where the VAT increase will hit road transport is that it will effectively be a pay cut for the whole country and will mean less money being spent on consumer goods and a corresponding reduction in demand for haulage.Where the VAT increase hits transport is that it’s a fuel tax that has to be passed on to the customer who says if I can’t find a cheaper way of shipping it I won’t bother shipping it by road at all.So it then goes by cheaper east european hauliers,who fill up in places like Luxembourg,or by foreign rail transport or air transport instead.It’s not just the VAT on the price of the fuel there’s actually VAT charged on the duty,that’s already put on road fuel,in addition.Higher taxes charged on average earners will also depress the economy in general. So because of the government’s greed it actually gets less tax coming in not more and a wrecked economy to go with it.All of that education at Eton seems to teach them zb all.We’re ruled by a bunch of morons.
How can I put this gently? 
I know… 
It’s not a good idea to call people morons when you clearly don’t understand what you’re talking about. 
I can only assume you don’t have a VAT registered business or if you do, you don’t do the accounts. Can I suggest you study how VAT works before you think about running any kind of business yourself.
Briefly:
VAT on fuel is claimed back by everyone in the chain of suppliers including the supplier of transport by offsetting input VAT against output VAT. VAT being added onto fuel duty is a red herring. It has zero effect on VAT registered traders/ hauliers/ suppliers etc. The only people to be affected by changes in VAT are the end consumer, that is Joe Public. I guess you think Joe Public is a moron too, eh? According to your logic he must be as he elected our rulers. 
del949:
the money poured into the NHS and education and police is mainly in-house spending so the money mainly stays in the UK… so where has all the money gone?
What is money? Money is an illusion. Money is promises to pay. There is no real money any more. All we have is tokens which we call coins and banknotes. Sometimes money is just numbers on a screen. Governments can make as much money as they like and sometimes they do. (don’t try this at home though, they get rather ■■■■■■ off with DIY money makers). So having lots of money is an illusion too, as all you really have is lots of promises.
thats a bit esoteric for me!!
del949:
thats a bit esoteric for me!!
Well think of it this way:
If money is simply a promise to pay, what value is a promise?
If a bank takes in deposits from customers and then lends out the money to other people who promise to pay it back and then don’t, what happens if the depositors asks for their deposits back right now? The promises can’t be fulfilled to the initial depositors because the bank loaned it all to someone else who defaulted. The promise is worthless because the bank loaned to the wrong people.
That is what has happened all around the world because in our society money is just promises. Ireland is the latest casualty of money. Money is bad. You don’t need any. 
So the bottom line is that money is useless as all it is, is promises which may be empty when you want to call them in. If you send me all your useless money I’ll get rid of it for you.
Big Jon’s dad:
Carryfast:
Harry Monk:
Where the VAT increase will hit road transport is that it will effectively be a pay cut for the whole country and will mean less money being spent on consumer goods and a corresponding reduction in demand for haulage.Where the VAT increase hits transport is that it’s a fuel tax that has to be passed on to the customer who says if I can’t find a cheaper way of shipping it I won’t bother shipping it by road at all.So it then goes by cheaper east european hauliers,who fill up in places like Luxembourg,or by foreign rail transport or air transport instead.It’s not just the VAT on the price of the fuel there’s actually VAT charged on the duty,that’s already put on road fuel,in addition.Higher taxes charged on average earners will also depress the economy in general. So because of the government’s greed it actually gets less tax coming in not more and a wrecked economy to go with it.All of that education at Eton seems to teach them zb all.We’re ruled by a bunch of morons.
How can I put this gently?
I know…
It’s not a good idea to call people morons when you clearly don’t understand what you’re talking about.I can only assume you don’t have a VAT registered business or if you do, you don’t do the accounts. Can I suggest you study how VAT works before you think about running any kind of business yourself.
Briefly:
VAT on fuel is claimed back by everyone in the chain of suppliers including the supplier of transport by offsetting input VAT against output VAT. VAT being added onto fuel duty is a red herring. It has zero effect on VAT registered traders/ hauliers/ suppliers etc. The only people to be affected by changes in VAT are the end consumer, that is Joe Public. I guess you think Joe Public is a moron too, eh? According to your logic he must be as he elected our rulers.
No if you’d read what I wrote you’d have seen that I actually know all of that however the bit that’s relevant to us is our part of the chain.Assuming that we’re a subby or a haulage contractor the VAT,and the duty paid on the diesel used to get the freight to where it’s going,has to be passed on to the next link in the chain.But those next links in the chain are’nt in business to pass on those taxation costs to the end VAT paying customer if they can find a more competive way of getting the job done because the end customer is only interested in what the goods are going to cost inclusive of VAT,which included the VAT paid on the fuel,if the goods are shipped by road,and that pricing pressure gets passed back down the chain in just the same way that the tax gets sent up it.In which case it takes someone with a lot more intelligence than the average Eton educated politician to understand that if you can get the goods transported for cheaper costs (inclusive of all taxes) that’s what you’ll do.But Joe Public obviously is’nt as stupid as our leaders because you won’t find many elections where the total vote,for all of the parties combined,exceeded the amount of voters who did’nt bother to vote for any of the idiots and stayed at home.But if you’re right then it would’nt matter to the North American road transport industry if they subjected it to the same type of fuel taxation regime as the British one is having to deal with.
Big Jon’s dad:
del949:
thats a bit esoteric for me!!Well think of it this way:
If money is simply a promise to pay, what value is a promise?
If a bank takes in deposits from customers and then lends out the money to other people who promise to pay it back and then don’t, what happens if the depositors asks for their deposits back right now? The promises can’t be fulfilled to the initial depositors because the bank loaned it all to someone else who defaulted. The promise is worthless because the bank loaned to the wrong people.
That is what has happened all around the world because in our society money is just promises. Ireland is the latest casualty of money. Money is bad. You don’t need any.
So the bottom line is that money is useless as all it is, is promises which may be empty when you want to call them in. If you send me all your useless money I’ll get rid of it for you.
But would you still say that if you won the lottery and at what point do all of those so called intelligent bankers and politicians decide that all of the country’s economy is,at present,based on nothing but worthless paper just like Germany’s before Hitler came to power and then lost the war which got their wealth creating industrial powerhouse back on it’s feet at our expense.But in the modern world it’s having natural rescources like gas and oil to power our industries which should be king.But what did our government do ?.Like our industries they flogged it all off for more worthless zb paper. 