Are van drivers(under 3.5ton gross) subject to any driving time restrictions? I don’t think they are but would like to know for sure.
Many thanks
dft.gov.uk/pgr/freight/road/ … sgoods.pdf page 24
The GB domestic rules, as contained in the Transport Act 1968, apply to most goods vehicles that are exempt from the EU rules
.
legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/192
“goods vehicle” means a motor vehicle constructed or adapted for use for the carriage of goods, or a trailer so constructed or adapted,
Sorry if I’m being thick, but does that mean that all van drivers, couriers etc should be working to UK domestic rules? They have to use a log book to record the hours etc etc?
Thanks again.
Fileep:
Sorry if I’m being thick, but does that mean that all van drivers, couriers etc should be working to UK domestic rules? They have to use a log book to record the hours etc etc?Thanks again.
I don’t think you are thick for asking a question
I might be deemed as thick for this answer though 
From the information in those links I would say YES and YES but I am not that proficient at reading law
Fileep:
Sorry if I’m being thick, but does that mean that all van drivers, couriers etc should be working to UK domestic rules? They have to use a log book to record the hours etc etc?Thanks again.
no, we don’t use log books, but we are subject to the wtd
Just found this, and it confirms what ROG says, so van drivers under 3.5tGVW are subject to GB Domestic rules!! I would never have thought that in a million years, I suppose its difficult to enforce unless the driver offers the information!
You dont have to use a “log book” but you should have your working time recorded by some mens ( I used to have a daily time sheet but that could be used for all types of vehicle )
But van / courier drivers / sales reps etc when driving in the UK are subject to the UK domestic driving hours if you go outside the UK then you are supposed to drive to that countries domestic driving hours
animal:
But van / courier drivers / sales reps etc when driving in the UK are subject to the UK domestic driving hours if you go outside the UK then you are supposed to drive to that countries domestic driving hours
Correct, I have been stopped in Germany a couple of times in a Sprinter and asked for my log book, I always used to keep one for Intl trips and made sure it was filled in correctly 
, I was also asked where I had come from and to see my ferry/train ticket to check the time I arrived in Euroland, they would then work out whether I was telling porkies or not, other Euroland countries do not seem as bothered as the Germans with vans, at one gestapo checkpoint there was an English driver (van) who had been made to buy a logbook from the services escorted by Helmut and Fritz, the penalties in Germany I believe are quite severe eurowise.
Can you imagine VOSA trying to enforce something like this? 
I used to drive almost 1 hit UK to Hungary also with a log book and i used to fill it in as in the 70s to suit myself, never had a problem
technically van drivers are only allowed to do the same amount of hours as HGV drivers but until tachographs are put in vans the rules are pretty much unenforceable.
I did here a sorry a few years ago of a Liverpool based firm who’s van drivers were prosecuted for hours offences after one driver had an accident and the subsequent investigation found the offences in there timesheets, some drivers had been on the go for upto 18 hours.
10 hours driving, 11 duty isn’t it.
russell2587:
10 hours driving, 11 duty isn’t it.
That is quite right
Domestic driving limits
Driving is defined as being at the controls of a vehicle for the purposes of controlling its movement, whether it is moving or stationary with the engine running, even for a short period of time.
Daily driving In any working day the maximum amount of driving permitted is 10 hours. The daily driving limit applies to driving on and off the public road. Off-road driving for the purposes of agriculture, quarrying, forestry, building work or civil engineering counts as duty rather than driving time.
Daily duty In any working day the maximum amount of duty permitted is 11 hours. A driver is exempt from the daily duty limit (11 hours) on any working day when he does not drive.
A driver who does not drive for more than 4 hours on each day of the week is exempt from the daily duty limit.
Drivers of certain vehicles are exempt from the duty but not the driving limit, namely — goods vehicles, including dual purpose vehicles, not exceeding a maximum permitted gross weight of 3.5 tonnes, when used:
- by doctors, dentists, nurses, midwives or vets; - for any service of inspection, cleaning, maintenance, repair, installation or fitting; - by commercial travellers;
Day: The day is the 24-hour period beginning with the start of duty time.
Duty: In the case of an employee driver, this means being on duty (whether driving or otherwise) for anyone who employs him as a driver. This includes all periods of work and driving, but does not include rest or breaks. Employers should also remember that they have additional obligations to ensure that drivers receive adequate rest under health and safety legislation.
For owner drivers, this means driving a vehicle connected with their business, or doing any other work connected with the vehicle and its load.
SECTION 3: GB domestic rules - by the AA, RAC or RSAC; and - for cinematography or radio and television broadcasting.
Record keeping
You must keep written records of your hours of work on a weekly record sheet. An example of such a sheet is at Annex 3. Operators are expected to check and sign each weekly record sheet.
Record books containing weekly record sheets are not available from The Stationery Office. VOSA (see Annex 4) can provide the names of commercial printers who produce them.
Alternatively, an EU-approved and sealed tachograph may be used to record a driver’s activities while he is subject to domestic drivers’ hours rules. When recording in this manner, and where domestic records are legally required (see flowchart below), all rules on the fitment and use of the tachograph must be complied with (see Section 4 on page 27).
Where a tachograph is fitted to a vehicle subject to the domestic rules but is not used to produce a legally required record, the operator and driver should nevertheless ensure that the tachograph is properly calibrated and sealed. The tachograph does not have to be recalibrated provided the seals remain intact and the vehicle remains out of scope of the EU rules.
Exemptions from keeping records
Some groups are exempt from requirements to keep records under domestic rules on drivers’ hours. Follow the flowchart below to determine whether you must keep records.
They need to start putting tachos in 3.5t vans sooner rather than later, i know people who do silly hours in vans and all limited to 70mph.
Saaamon:
They need to start putting tachos in 3.5t vans sooner rather than later, i know people who do silly hours in vans and all limited to 70mph.
Some are limited to less than that 60mph I have driven
you should try taxi driving,although your not driving every all of the time,12 hr shifts are not un heard off,as for fri sat night they can be over 15 hrs in a day.
Saaamon:
They need to start putting tachos in 3.5t vans sooner rather than later, i know people who do silly hours in vans and all limited to 70mph.
got one in my transit 
company policy says we have to have them in even when not towing a trailer 
at one of our other branches driver got stopped by vosa and they asked him why he had a tacho in when it was not needed(no trailer), he said it’s company policy and they said if he had been in an accident they would have been looking for the trailer(yea right). 
Fair play to your company.
BIG MAC:
you should try taxi driving,although your not driving every all of the time,12 hr shifts are not un heard off,as for fri sat night they can be over 15 hrs in a day.
Yeah forgot about them, do they have to undergo any driver training or testing?
bigstu99:
Saaamon:
They need to start putting tachos in 3.5t vans sooner rather than later, i know people who do silly hours in vans and all limited to 70mph.got one in my transit
at one of our other branches driver got stopped by vosa and they asked him why he had a tacho in when it was not needed(no trailer), he said it’s company policy and they said if he had been in an accident they would have been looking for the trailer(yea right).
if you got rear ended would they still look for the trailer
the vosa book dose say you can use a tacho to record domestic drivers hours.