hi
am just after a spot of advice from more experienced operators please
I have been asked to be the ‘O’ licence holder at the firm I work for,i currently do most of the compliance for drivers hours & maintenance as well all the vehicle planning for 7 artics a day.i am responsible for 14 drivers,20 trailers & 14 units,to be honest its difficult at times to do all the wok necessary to keep up to date.
we are currently using a third party’s trailers alongside our own.all within our margin.
on our licence we are on 8 weekly inspection cycles & the other partys are on 13 weeks.
I am unsure as to whether we are allowed to use these trailers as they fall out of the terms of our licence due to being on 13 weeks,can we use them if they are within the 8 weeks after being inspected & then after that we can’t.if that makes sense.
I have been told we ARE to use them as we need to as we have a lot our trailers ■■■■■■■,however,if I am to be licence holder,i am not putting my good repute & self at risk by running trailers we aren’t allowed to.
Dan Punchard:
It doesn’t matter who’s trailer it is, it’s the operator of the unit who is always responsible .
The operator is responsible for the roadworthiness of a third-party trailer he tows, but not for the inspection cycle. Regardless of the conditions of my own O licence, it’s not a legal problem if the company I sub-contract to have a different arrangement with VOSA with regard to trailer inspections to mine.
If you are not using the same TP trailers all the time, it might be worth ensuring that your drivers note down the MOT test Month expiry from the TP’s trailer disc on their daily walk round check sheet each time they pick one up. You aren’t required to do this, but it will show that you are exercising due diligence.
None of these trailers are over 12 years old are they? Because if they are they now need to be on a six week rota.
If you did get a VOSA inspection the maintenance records they will be interested in will be for the ones specified on your operator’s licence. In my experience at your yard they will be more interested in vehicles than trailers and at a roadside pull they’ll just inspect the whole lot.
As far as third party trailers go. Check they’re in test, check lights, check tyres, check brakes work, check it’s not ■■■■■■■ air out and off you go. Realistically this is all you can do. The trailers may, in fqct, not be on anyone’s o-licence in which case the maintenance regime relies on the owner’s interest in keeping an asset serviceable and subcontractors being prepared to pull them.
I’m not sure I interpret the recent roadworthiness guide as being mandatory to put anything over 12 yrs old on a six-weekly. My general take was they are flexible to maintenance regimes tailored to individual operator’s circumstances provided the schedule is stuck to and vehicles are in the condition they should be.
Own Account Driver:
If you did get a VOSA inspection the maintenance records they will be interested in will be for the ones specified on your operator’s licence.
Since when have trailers been specified on any o licence.
An operator must declare how many he wishes to use, what the safety inspection period will be and have sufficient parking available, but no trailers are specified.
If its being pulled by a o licence holder then they are operating it and must comply with the declarations they gave when granted the o licence
The simple answer it is the haulier pulling the trailer that is responsible for the service schedule/ records matching there o licence requirements any defect will fall on the o licence of the person pulling it not the company supplying the trailer, I have had a large number of trailers being pulled by subbies in the past but owned/leased by me, simple answer I found was I had them all on 6 weekly inspections biggest issue was getting defects actually reported from hauliers drivers!!
jrl driver:
hi
am just after a spot of advice from more experienced operators please
I have been asked to be the ‘O’ licence holder at the firm I work for,i currently do most of the compliance for drivers hours & maintenance as well all the vehicle planning for 7 artics a day.i am responsible for 14 drivers,20 trailers & 14 units,to be honest its difficult at times to do all the wok necessary to keep up to date.
we are currently using a third party’s trailers alongside our own.all within our margin.
on our licence we are on 8 weekly inspection cycles & the other partys are on 13 weeks.
I am unsure as to whether we are allowed to use these trailers as they fall out of the terms of our licence due to being on 13 weeks,can we use them if they are within the 8 weeks after being inspected & then after that we can’t.if that makes sense.
I have been told we ARE to use them as we need to as we have a lot our trailers ■■■■■■■,however,if I am to be licence holder,i am not putting my good repute & self at risk by running trailers we aren’t allowed to.
cheers
John
firstly, no, you have not, you would have been asked to be the CPC holder, NOT the O Licence holder
secondly, you are responsible for the roadworthyness of the 3rd party trailers, NOT the service schedule, that is the responsibility of the company that own them, and it is down to them to tell you when you need to get them back to be serviced
trailers are not listed on an O Licence, you do not have to show any financial standing for trailers, the only mention of them is the total number that you can have at your operating centre
Own Account Driver:
If you did get a VOSA inspection the maintenance records they will be interested in will be for the ones specified on your operator’s licence.
Since when have trailers been specified on any o licence.
An operator must declare how many he wishes to use, what the safety inspection period will be and have sufficient parking available, but no trailers are specified.
If its being pulled by a o licence holder then they are operating it and must comply with the declarations they gave when granted the o licence
Sorry, to clarify, I’m well aware of this, and would have been clearer to say authorised trailers and specified vehicles for nitpick benefit. The point I was trying to put across is if you have a yard full of trailers belonging or hired from whomever if you get inspected by VOSA at your yard they will only be interested in your trailers you maintain authorised on your licence and the vehicles specified. This is from experience of having a yard full of vehicles and trailers belonging to all sorts of people and as previously said they weren’t terribly interested in the trailers at all and focused on vehicles.
There is no obligation to ensure a third party trailer receives the same inspection frequency as your own presumably unless you were using it constantly to the point it may as well be considered yours. How they would resolve or even, in the absence of signwriting, prove a trailer was yours I’ve no idea. My suspicion would be an operator that kept their units in good order would be unlikely to pull dangerous trailers.
thanks again for the replies,you’ve all been very helpful.
I’ve just asked the drivers to be extra vigilant when doing there daily walk round checks when they have to use these trailers & if their not happy with something let me know.
already had 2 with bad tyres.informed the firm whose trailers they are & tyres were changed asap.
could i have a bit of advice please from transport managers/cpc holders please.
i have been asked to be the CPC holder at my company,i hold a international cpc that they put me through.
i am presently responsible for everything regard compliance,servicing,drivers hours etc,do the planning for 7 artics,up to 13 runs a day & up to 11 external loads.
the way i look at,is that i am performing a transport managers role but with out the title.
when i become the CPC holder,does mean that i become the transport manager or stay as a supervisor & CPC holder but with even more legal responsibility on my shoulders?
i have said i want the title of transport manager as i am already doing it & have the responsibilites for it,but they say they are not prepared to promote me to that,or is being the CPC holder a higher title & the same responsibility
The CPC holder will carry the ultimate responsibility both professionally and privately as your personal reputation, and ability to secure similar future work elsewhere, is very much on the line if issues came to light with the operations that went to public inquiry.
However, it is perfectly acceptable for the CPC holder to delegate planning roles etc. to other employees but their role is still then one of oversight and they will carry the can if those employees screw up. In a large operation it would be impossible for the nominated CPC holder not to delegate many aspects.
To consider this role it is a very big step up in responsibility as your personal reputation is on the line so there does need to be extra pay to reflect this and more importantly you must be happy that everyone in the organisation, regardless of their position, will take your word as gospel as far as transport operations are concerned.
thanks for the replies.
I spoke with a lady at vosa today who stated that when my name is put on the TM1 form to add a transport manager to the O licence,it makes me TM & legally responsible for the operational running of our fleet immaterial of what I my position at work is now,which is basically a transport supervisor.
the problem is,the ops director is saying the position of TM does not exist within the company,well it must now if they want me to be the CPC holder & be on call 24\7.
I have been offered a 2k rise to what I am now,which is ok but I feel it should be 3k,which brings it to the realistic salary that a TM of fleet of 14 mixed vehicles & 20 trailers & 15 drivers is paid.i don’t want to sound greedy,but as you’ll know,I will now have a lot to be responsible for
VOSA wanted to know why the CPC holder on the licence now wasn’t doing the role to start with & if he hadn’t been doing it,why hadn’t he employed a TM I told her I was the nominated person but she seemed to be saying it didn’t matter & the cpc holder now should have been doing all this.
She is correct they should have been notified if someone else is responsible.
They have paid for your CPC and offered, I think a probably too modest - either that or you’re over-paid at the moment , pay increase for the additional responsibility but, I did think they are looking to railroad you into being their transport manager on the cheap.
However, what is worth considering is if you take the role, once you have a few years experience in it, you will find the door is open to potentially much better paid transport manager roles elsewhere. It’s all about your comfort levels re personal responsibility and earning aspirations. Be careful about discussing with your other half as she will certainly be keen on the latter but it won’t be much consolation if the pressure of the job and responsibility takes you constantly outside your comfort zone.
You are obviously perfectly capable of the theory side of it as you have the qualification. However, (I’m not having a go here it’s just a general impression) I think to be effective in such roles you are going to need to work a bit on self-belief.
There is a risk that in a crisis scenario where deliveries need to be made a senior manager/director may ride roughshod over you and cut corners, in an unacceptable manner, to resolve it and you cannot allow this - although you must obviously pull in the same direction on an objective of servicing customers and making deliveries. I do worry that part of your employer’s motivation in training and promoting you to this role is you may be perceived as biddable.
I told her I was the nominated person but she seemed to be saying it didn’t matter & the cpc holder now should have been doing all this.
, pay increase for the additional responsibility but, I did think they are looking to railroad you into being their transport manager on the cheap.