Carryfast:
While using domestic regs driving time limits instead of EU would provide that extra driving time flexibility both in regard to the 4.5 hour limit and the 9-10 hour overall limit.
do you know you can drive more in a day on eu than on domestic?
10 hours daily driving limit and 30 minutes minimum break after 5.5 hours driving.
I make that more scope for not getting stranded run out of driving time than 9 hours max and 10 hours twice a week and a break needed after 4.5 hours.
While a limiter setting of 60 mph and going back to log books which donât record effectively to the minute would also help in that regard.
10 hours in a 24 hour period. no breaks needed at all for hgv, you do for psv. the same 24 hour period on eu you can be at the helm 13.5 hours
and donât forget itâs 11 hours of actual work in the 24 hour period too, so iâm sure the majority of the time youâll be parked up well before you use up your 10 hours of drive time
Carryfast:
While using domestic regs driving time limits instead of EU would provide that extra driving time flexibility both in regard to the 4.5 hour limit and the 9-10 hour overall limit.
do you know you can drive more in a day on eu than on domestic?
10 hours daily driving limit and 30 minutes minimum break after 5.5 hours driving.
I make that more scope for not getting stranded run out of driving time than 9 hours max and 10 hours twice a week and a break needed after 4.5 hours.
While a limiter setting of 60 mph and going back to log books which donât record effectively to the minute would also help in that regard.
10 hours in a 24 hour period. no breaks needed at all for hgv, you do for psv. the same 24 hour period on eu you can be at the helm 13.5 hours
As I said EU regs are no good for anyone who needs to do more than 4.5 hours driving before taking a break and/or more than 9 hours âin a single shiftâ such as long haul uk trunking operations.
While its obvious that the EU regs are all about knackered drivers plodding across the continent at 50-55 mph max with minimum sleep between shifts.Or more often these days being parked up being used by customers as mobile warehouse space.
So how does your EU regs example help in the case of that typical uk trunking scenario of having run out of driving time,either in the form of the 4.5 hour limit or the 9 hour one ?.While as I said no one is saying that domestic is perfect in that regard.Which is why I said it could at least be tweaked to provide that decent compromise between work and rest in the form of a 12 hour minimum daily rest period.
As for the break rules for psv v hgv lets just say that most people took that as more or less the same in the case of hgvâs regardless of it not being written.
I think the run is too tight, but I have only done it 5 times - apparently the other drivers manage it!
The trailer swap is easy to do in 15 minutes, the other driver is already there, and uncoupled, so I only have to drop my trailer, and back on to his, and re-couple.
Should have clarified, that reversing into the yard, is from a quiet industrial estate road, hense I donât inconvenience anyone, with my struggles.
The reason the other drivers manage it might just possibly be because they break the speed limit on non motorway sections?
5 1/2 hrs driving was not what the old regs allowed, it was 5 1/2 hrs from start work to break required. As for doing 5/1/2 hrs driving and being expected to do that in one stretch to keep to schedule, the company can go â â â â itself. The most I am prepared to do in one go is 3 1/2 plus a little bit and I am sure I am not alone in really feeling the need for a quick break after 2 1/2 hrs.
As for the PSV, to be able to run under domestic the journey canât exceed 50km. For any timetable to work there needs to be a turnaround allowance at one end at least each ârounderâ , so the driving is not usually continuous. There are worse aspects to PSV hours regs though.
cav551:
The reason the other drivers manage it might just possibly be because they break the speed limit on non motorway sections?
5 1/2 hrs driving was not what the old regs allowed, it was 5 1/2 hrs from start work to break required. As for doing 5/1/2 hrs driving and being expected to do that in one stretch to keep to schedule, the company can go [zb] itself. The most I am prepared to do in one go is 3 1/2 plus a little bit and I am sure I am not alone in really feeling the need for a quick break after 2 1/2 hrs.
As for the PSV, to be able to run under domestic the journey canât exceed 50km. For any timetable to work there needs to be a turnaround allowance at one end at least each ârounderâ , so the driving is not usually continuous. There are worse aspects to PSV hours regs though.
There is no actual driving time limit written in the case of taking a break for hgv.
Itâs deffo 5.5 hours driving limit in the case of psv.
In general the more time taken as break is at the expense of longer shift time and therefore daily rest.On that note you really would have hated my old preferred regime of Feltham-Dewsbury 45 minutes break Dewsbury-Feltham job and finish for example.In which any time taken as break meant hitting more traffic in the morning on the way back and therefore even less time at home for sleep.
IE your ideas would make a large sector of the industry effectively unviable.
Having said that I did follow a similar regime to that which youâve described on the council in which local medium distance work combined with the domestic regs use of log books made that possible.Because the guvnor had no way of knowing if extra breaks were being booked as driving and of course the ministry didnât care in that case.
Carryfast:
As I said EU regs are no good for anyone who needs to do more than 4.5 hours driving before taking a break and/or more than 9 hours âin a single shiftâ such as long haul uk trunking operations.
While its obvious that the EU regs are all about knackered drivers plodding across the continent at 50-55 mph max with minimum sleep between shifts.Or more often these days being parked up being used by customers as mobile warehouse space.
So how does your EU regs example help in the case of that typical uk trunking scenario of having run out of driving time,either in the form of the 4.5 hour limit or the 9 hour one ?.While as I said no one is saying that domestic is perfect in that regard.Which is why I said it could at least be tweaked to provide that decent compromise between work and rest in the form of a 12 hour minimum daily rest period.
As for the break rules for psv v hgv lets just say that most people took that as more or less the same in the case of hgvâs regardless of it not being written.
does anyone need to drive more than 4.5 without a break? if the 4.5 and 9 is causing an issue, then you double man, problem solved. where ever you want the limit set, thereâs always going to be some that want to go that half hour further and â â â â â about the regulations. but thereâs got to be a limit.
i used to work in catering, itâs a stressful job at times and you can be crazy busy, working long hours, sometimes with no or little breaks. then i went trucking, people may â â â â â about limiters and the regs, but the boss might be desperate for you to get somewhere by whenever, but once youâre on the motorway with cruise on, itâs pretty stress free, if you can get there in the time you can, if you canât you canât. obviously thereâs been plenty of times when i wish i had more time, but i understand there need to be a limit and i understand no matter where itâs set, itâll mess you up sometimes.
cav551:
I am surprised that the companyâs operating centre has approval from the traffic commissioner if it is necessary to reverse in off the road, either the yard is unsuitable or the company has too many vehicles authorised for that site. If you are not having to reverse into the yard and then park the vehicle so it can be unloaded immediately, AND it is possible to get in the yard forwards then just drive in and dump it. Someone else can sort it out later. I would not be happy reversing into the yard off the road unaided in the dark either.
I got the impression the reverse was in London not at base in Manchester ?
Even allowing for it being motorway most of the way Iâd have thought the olâ 2800 would have been a bit pushed at full weight. Any way back then werenât you limited to 450km a shift?
cav551:
Even allowing for it being motorway most of the way Iâd have thought the olâ 2800 would have been a bit pushed at full weight. Any way back then werenât you limited to 450km a shift?
Blimey the 2800 was one of the quickest types we had.If youâd have said the 2300/2500 they were more like hard work.Let alone later the equally gutless hill climbing ability of the Merc 2534 drawbar outfit but with a limiter which,unlike the small DAFs,stopped any time being made up on the flat.Added to which in that case was a break in the run in each direction to pick up and drop the trailer at Luton.
But having started out in the job in 1980 no Iâve never been aware of any 450 km limits. Having also done even longer runs like Feltham-Bristol-Feltham-Bristol-Feltham or sometimes the need to run from Feltham-Killington Lake-Feltham to help a late running scotch changeover.All done within the 4.5 and 9-10 hour driving time limits.The difference in most of those cases,with the exception of the later Scotch changeovers and the Merc in the 1990âs,being the 1980âs pre limiter speed regime.
As Iâve said the combination of having to run at 90 kmh max and such silly low driving time limits has effectively made many types of long haul trunking more or less unviable in that regard.While the reduced daily rest provision contradicts any supposed safety argument.
Part of my job during the period â78 -â 82 involved checking first log sheets and then tachograph discs. I worked for an own account company who also ran day and night trunks from Mid Kent to Manchester as part of the operation. We had an agreement with the Union (not T&G) that we would introduce tachographs a year (I think) before the legislation came into force so that everyone was used to using them when they became a requirement. At that time the 450 km limit was part of the intended legislation. IIRC it actually came into force for a short period after the relevant date. Certainly we operated the 450km limit. The major effect was on our longer distance multi-drop high street delivery runs, however the drivers reported that on the whole it made it easier for them to overnight in the town they wanted to and they had time to grab the cuppa offered at deliveries rather than rush on to the next one so their pay wasnât affected. From the companyâs point of view it added about 3 hrs to a three day delivery run, with the vehicle getting back at about 3 pm. There was rarely the need for local afternoon deliveries, so rather than having bored drivers trying to look busy or hiding for several hours, we had with a few exceptions drivers who wanted to wash their vehicle etc etc until time to go home rather than skive.
As for the trunking, this was a change over at Rugby truck stop, easily achievable at night and job and knock on nights for a guaranteed 11 hrs. It wasnât so easy during the day. For nights two men rotated shift either monthly or fortnightly, I canât recall which. For days it was whoever was available and there were a lot of planned straight through runs. Things did go wrong occasionally - we ran Bedford and equivalent DAF tractor units - we had to rescue drivers from broken down vehicles and sometimes get them to go right through. If this happened as an unplanned event then the outbased driver had a free change of essential clothing from the employees shop, free meals in the canteen and was taken to a local hotel. He would return, if necessary as passenger, on the next relevant trunk.
