war1974:
would be easier to get rid of all the working time ■■■■■■■■ and go usa style 10 hours driving then you park up simple as.
I used to hate having to stop for a boring 45 when in the groove so to speak. 45 mins break sometimes left me feeling more tired than driving straight through.
The wtd seems to have opt outs and doesn’t have the same teeth regards enforcement as drivers hours regs ?.The issue in this case seems to be that typical scenario of running into the 4.5 hours driving time limit at,or at least in sight of, the yard gates or possibly even well before that.Which would easily be solved by calling for a return to domestic regs,at least for domestic running operations,in that regard.
I’m not sure a change to domestic rules or any other rules would solve this. Give the driver longer and the operator will just expect more and drivers will still be pushed and pushed.
What would help towards solving problems like this would be an increase in the driving hours from 9 or 10
a day to 10 or 11 a day. Given this country’s chronic traffic jams and road closures this could only be beneficial.
shep532:
I’m not sure a change to domestic rules or any other rules would solve this. Give the driver longer and the operator will just expect more and drivers will still be pushed and pushed.
Where there’s a limit it’ll get pushed.
There’s no way that any guvnor can/would realistically actually schedule their operations so that driving time runs out at,or in the locality of,the yard gate.As I said in most cases we’re dealing with regs that have deliberately been designed to artificially reduce productivety levels.On that note what we’ve actually seen is a reduction in that regard in the form of trunking run distances which could be run comfortably with time to spare being made effectively unviable.Firstly by the ridiculous driving time hours limits regs and secondly by the imposition of the 90 kmh speed limit by default.All of which having nothing to do with safety and everything to do with politics in making road transport less competitive v rail.With drivers being unfairly pressured and crimilised as part of the scam.
axletramp:
What would help towards solving problems like this would be an increase in the driving hours from 9 or 10
a day to 10 or 11 a day. Given this country’s chronic traffic jams and road closures this could only be beneficial.
If the issue is having to take a premature break short of destination because driving time has run out that’s generally an issue of running into the 4.5 hour driving time limit,not the overall driving time limit.Bearing in mind that taking a break won’t fix the latter.
While using domestic regs driving time limits instead of EU would provide that extra driving time flexibility both in regard to the 4.5 hour limit and the 9-10 hour overall limit.
axletramp:
What would help towards solving problems like this would be an increase in the driving hours from 9 or 10
a day to 10 or 11 a day. Given this country’s chronic traffic jams and road closures this could only be beneficial.
as shep532 points out, people would still try and work as close to the limit as possible, how long before someone had just clocked up 10:55 and just needed another 10 minutes to get back to base?
I think the suggestions to keep a print out of when and why it happened is the best - if 2 or 3 times a year you had went 5 minutes over then that should be viewed as entirely reasonable, however, 20 minutes over once a week and you’re obviously taking the pish.
axletramp:
What would help towards solving problems like this would be an increase in the driving hours from 9 or 10
a day to 10 or 11 a day. Given this country’s chronic traffic jams and road closures this could only be beneficial.
as shep532 points out, people would still try and work as close to the limit as possible, how long before someone had just clocked up 10:55 and just needed another 10 minutes to get back to base?
I think the suggestions to keep a print out of when and why it happened is the best - if 2 or 3 times a year you had went 5 minutes over then that should be viewed as entirely reasonable, however, 20 minutes over once a week and you’re obviously taking the pish.
No.When you’ve got a strictly enforced 4.5 hour driving time limit when a break has to be taken and a mostly 9 and limited 10 hour daily driving time limit and a 90 kmh speed limit,that contradicts the 60 mph motorway NSL,combined with a frequently appliable reduced daily rest period of 9 hours.That’s a deliberate structural problem in the regs that contradicts both safety and productivety and that is really taking the pish.
the amount of time I have been safer to drive back than waste 45 mins sitting with my thumb up my arse I stupid, yes you will always get the divvy who will push the rules but you get this now.
I blame campaign groups like brake and the like who equate speed and time spent driving with any accident ever, yet doctors can operate for hours without breaks in an A+E unit and this is safe?
for me the choice to be able to drive 4/5/6 hours if I wanted to would have made the job so much easier than rigid stupid rules of 4.5 you ‘need’ a break. if you work 6 hours you ‘need’ a break.
no wonder half the world is unable to think for itself.
war1974:
holy [zb] batman I almost agree with carryfast
the amount of time I have been safer to drive back than waste 45 mins sitting with my thumb up my arse I stupid, yes you will always get the divvy who will push the rules but you get this now.
I blame campaign groups like brake and the like who equate speed and time spent driving with any accident ever, yet doctors can operate for hours without breaks in an A+E unit and this is safe?
for me the choice to be able to drive 4/5/6 hours if I wanted to would have made the job so much easier than rigid stupid rules of 4.5 you ‘need’ a break. if you work 6 hours you ‘need’ a break.
no wonder half the world is unable to think for itself.
As I said the EU rules are all about maximising potential shift time while limiting driving time.All based on the bs premise that it’s all about time spent driving not about how much sleep a driver had between shifts.
If Brake was really all about safety,as opposed to looking after the interests of its rail transport cronies,then they’d be more worried about the issue of knackered drivers starting a new shift after only possibly less than 6 hours sleep since finishing the previous one.
Only skimmed through the thread so apologies if already mentioned but one of these options might help.
Get back to yard, pull card and go home, fuel up next day etc.
Manage time better.
Pull card, crack on and act daft… my usual solution to most problems.
Park by the pumps
Park on the pumps
Take break on the pumps, pretend your at a services.
Help nightline dress himself
Get a longer hose for the pumps that reaches round the yard. Cant beat a good reach round.
Ignore all the above and do what feels comfortable.
axletramp:
What would help towards solving problems like this would be an increase in the driving hours from 9 or 10
a day to 10 or 11 a day. Given this country’s chronic traffic jams and road closures this could only be beneficial.
If the issue is having to take a premature break short of destination because driving time has run out that’s generally an issue of running into the 4.5 hour driving time limit,not the overall driving time limit.Bearing in mind that taking a break won’t fix the latter.
While using domestic regs driving time limits instead of EU would provide that extra driving time flexibility both in regard to the 4.5 hour limit and the 9-10 hour overall limit.
do you know you can drive more in a day on eu than on domestic?
i think the main problem is to simplify, max drive 10hrs max work 13 mintime off 11hrs min w/e break 45hrs the amount of drivers on here alone who ask questions on breaks etc shows its to complicated, authority seems to like complicated,
You said your in a trailer park, if its private, specially if its your firms yard, and aslong as your starting and ending in your private yard and not using public highways inbetween, eject the card and put the tacho in out.
Or drive into said trailer park, stop, and flick the tacho onto bed mode, wait until its counted the first minute of your break, then drive for no longer then 25 seconds stop, and quickly flick the tacho onto bed, but make sure the break is not interrupted for more then 30 seconds. Wait until the next minute is counted on your break.( from 1 minute to 2 minutes) then keep repeating.
Or do everything in reverse. No driving time. Job done
Hi, just after a bit advise, so thought I would jump on this thread.
Started on class 1, last Wednesday, so very inexperienced, and totally rubbish at reversing ( I know this will improve with practice).
My run is from Manchester to London, swap trailer, and return. A clear run is 4.15. I can get down, swap trailers, hook up, then get my 45.
My problem is getting back. Last night I had a diversion as the M25/M1 junction was closed, and also M62/M60 junction was closed - probably added about 10 minutes onto a tight journey.
Here is where my rubbish reversing causes a problem, I have to do a tight reverse off the road through the gates. This is taking an embarrassing number of shunts at present. I know this will get better with time, but the fact that I am out of driving time is causing me to panic. I have taken a second 45, to give me an extra hour (I don’t need the whole hour)!! But obviously o can only do this twice a week. That’s before I come across any issues on the road, where I need my 10 hours for a better reason.
Any advice?
I am surprised that the company’s operating centre has approval from the traffic commissioner if it is necessary to reverse in off the road, either the yard is unsuitable or the company has too many vehicles authorised for that site. If you are not having to reverse into the yard and then park the vehicle so it can be unloaded immediately, AND it is possible to get in the yard forwards then just drive in and dump it. Someone else can sort it out later. I would not be happy reversing into the yard off the road unaided in the dark either.
I can’t see how you can park and swap trailers in 15 minutes, you must surely tick over 4 hrs 30 mins or get far too close to it. Your break needs to start at 4hrs 30 minutes driving time and not at 4.5 hrs plus 20 minutes other work. A scheduled 4hrs 15 minutes is far too tight for the job to be viable, have the company not heard of rain and fog?
Carryfast:
While using domestic regs driving time limits instead of EU would provide that extra driving time flexibility both in regard to the 4.5 hour limit and the 9-10 hour overall limit.
do you know you can drive more in a day on eu than on domestic?
10 hours daily driving limit and 30 minutes minimum break after 5.5 hours driving.
I make that more scope for not getting stranded run out of driving time than 9 hours max and 10 hours twice a week and a break needed after 4.5 hours.
While a limiter setting of 60 mph and going back to log books which don’t record effectively to the minute would also help in that regard.
cav551:
A scheduled 4hrs 15 minutes is far too tight for the job to be viable, have the company not heard of rain and fog?
Assuming employers started closing down runs and making drivers redundant that might at least start to concentrate minds on the question of what the zb are we doing lumbering ourselves with EU regs that put drivers out of work.
Let alone creating an environment of knackered drivers running around with potentially less than 6 hours sleep between shifts.
When we could/should be scheduling runs taking account of our 60 mph motorway speed limit and 5.5 hours driving before a break is needed with a minimum of 12 hours daily rest.Together with the tolerance in time recording provided by log books instead of tachos.
