LIBERTY_GUY:
Thanks for the clarification on the reset thing Raymundo. I was under the impression (rightly or wrongly) that only driving and other work come into the WTD ‘radar’ and that POA or break are essentially the same thing to satisfy that criteria? We all out of driving time well before that six hour thing comes up though.
POA only pauses the 6 hr WTD clock, whereas a 15 minute break resets it to zero.
That’s not quite right. You still have to take the second 15 mins before 9 hours of work.
Only if your shift is nine hours or less, there’s nothing in the regulations that says you have to have at-least 30 minutes break before nine hours working time unless that’s the total shift length.
For instance if you start at 06:00 and are not going to drive over 4½ hours, you could have one hour POA at 09:00 and a 15 minute break at 13:00, you could then work until 19:15 before needing another 15 minute break.
I was referring to the resets the wtd clock comment. At 6 hours of work 30mins is required. You can take that as 15 mins in the first 6 hours then the other 15 mins after the 6 hours as long as it’s before 9 hours of work. But none the less the other 15 mins should be taken and the wtd clock is not reset after just a 15 min break.
Road2ruin:
I was referring to the resets the wtd clock comment. At 6 hours of work 30mins is required. You can take that as 15 mins in the first 6 hours then the other 15 mins after the 6 hours as long as it’s before 9 hours of work. But none the less the other 15 mins should be taken and the wtd clock is not reset after just a 15 min break.
For the working time regulations a break of 15 minutes is required before exceeding six hours working time, then another break of 15 minutes is required before exceeding a further six hours working time.
The comment “POA only pauses the 6 hr WTD clock, whereas a 15 minute break resets it to zero” was correct, once you’ve had a 15 minute break you don’t need to start another 15 minute break for another six hours working time, hence once you’ve had a 15 minute break the six hours is reset to zero and you start a new six hour period.
There’s no rule that says you should have a 30 minute break at six hours working time, regardless of whether or not the break is separated into two parts.
Roymondo:
POA only pauses the 6 hr WTD clock, whereas a 15 minute break resets it to zero.
That’s not quite right. You still have to take the second 15 mins before 9 hours of work.
Only if your shift is nine hours or less, there’s nothing in the regulations that says you have to have at-least 30 minutes break before nine hours working time unless that’s the total shift length.
For instance if you start at 06:00 and are not going to drive over 4½ hours, you could have one hour POA at 09:00 and a 15 minute break at 13:00, you could then work until 19:15 before needing another 15 minute break.
I was referring to the resets the wtd clock comment. At 6 hours of work 30mins is required. You can take that as 15 mins in the first 6 hours then the other 15 mins after the 6 hours as long as it’s before 9 hours of work. But none the less the other 15 mins should be taken and the wtd clock is not reset after just a 15 min break.
No. There is no requirement to take 30 mins of break before completing 9 hours of work. This sort of misunderstanding seems to crop up with depressing regularity (pretty much any time “WTD” and “breaks” are mentioned - both on here and in the workplace, and even in DCPC training sessions).
To put it simply; There are two separate rules in effect - you could call them the “Six hour rule” and the “Total breaks rule”:
1. The Six Hour Rule
Simply - you must not work for more than six hours without taking a qualifying break (a qualifying break being an uninterrupted break of at least 15 minutes).
2. The Total Breaks Rule
If your total working time during the shift is between six and nine hours, qualifying breaks totalling at least 30 minutes must be taken during the shift.
If your total working time during the shift is over nine hours, qualifying breaks totalling at least 45 minutes must be taken.
The two rules operate independently of one another, although your breaks must be arranged so that both rules are complied with.
I would say tipper driving is one of the easiest jobs regarding not getting WTD infringements. Multi dropping/handball around London is a PITA to do unless you do the odd drop on break or you are on industrial estates where you can park up somewhere.
I used to do a drop on break (yes I know ) then have my lunch somewhere convenient but with tacho on working time. My reasoning is that to have breaks at too many drops on that sort of work looks dodgy.
That’s what I just said! Section 5.4 of the wtd says between 6-9 hours a minimum of 30 mins is required, total break. So if you work for 6 hours you are then between 6-9 hours and required to take 30 mins. The point I was referring to was ‘reset’ you could not work for 12 hours as was implied with only a 15 min break!
Road2ruin:
That’s what I just said! Section 5.4 of the wtd says between 6-9 hours a minimum of 30 mins is required, total break. So if you work for 6 hours you are then between 6-9 hours and required to take 30 mins. The point I was referring to was ‘reset’ you could not work for 12 hours as was implied with only a 15 min break!
Actually if your total shift is more than 12 hours 31 minutes and you don’t do 4½ hours driving you could legally work for 12 hours with only a 15 minute break, what you cannot do is do more than 12 hours working time with only a 15 minute break.
You need to have a 30 minute break if your total working time is between six and nine hours, however if your total working time is more than nine hours you do not need to have a 30 minute break before the nine hour mark.
Road2ruin:
That’s what I just said! Section 5.4 of the wtd says between 6-9 hours a minimum of 30 mins is required, total break. So if you work for 6 hours you are then between 6-9 hours and required to take 30 mins. The point I was referring to was ‘reset’ you could not work for 12 hours as was implied with only a 15 min break!
Actually if your total shift is more than 12 hours 31 minutes and you don’t do 4½ hours driving you could legally work for 12 hours with only a 15 minute break, what you cannot do is do more than 12 hours working time with only a 15 minute break.
You need to have a 30 minute break if your total working time is between six and nine hours, however if your total working time is more than nine hours you do not need to have a 30 minute break before the nine hour mark.
tacho this could be a case of head, bang and wall lol
After having made my views clear in past posts about pedantic ridiculously intricate ■■■■ tacho regs (and got stick for it by a certain member) can I just nominate this as the most boring ■■■■■■ thread on here to date.
I reckon some of you keep up to press with all this crap every night before you go to bed, and bore the arse of every ■■■■ they is unfortunate to have to listen to you reciting it.
Road2ruin:
That’s what I just said! Section 5.4 of the wtd says between 6-9 hours a minimum of 30 mins is required, total break. So if you work for 6 hours you are then between 6-9 hours and required to take 30 mins. The point I was referring to was ‘reset’ you could not work for 12 hours as was implied with only a 15 min break!
Actually if your total shift is more than 12 hours 31 minutes and you don’t do 4½ hours driving you could legally work for 12 hours with only a 15 minute break, what you cannot do is do more than 12 hours working time with only a 15 minute break.
You need to have a 30 minute break if your total working time is between six and nine hours, however if your total working time is more than nine hours you do not need to have a 30 minute break before the nine hour mark.
tacho this could be a case of head, bang and wall lol
) then have my lunch somewhere convenient but with tacho on working time. My reasoning is that to have breaks at too many drops on that sort of work looks dodgy.
