All those wishing to moralize about excessive driving hours and minimal rest periods might want to turn their attention to Mr white van ‘same day delivery’ courier driver…
Contraflow:
Typical tipper driver mentality I’m afraid. Breaks are a necessary nuisance as far as most tipper drivers are concerned.You can’t educate pork… or cabbage.
Aint just tipper men Chimpy boy, there are lots of dickwhits like that in all parts of the job, breaks are tor the driver’s benefit not something to get in to do more work
Same old thing drivers=own worst enemy 
the nodding donkey:
All those wishing to moralize about excessive driving hours and minimal rest periods might want to turn their attention to Mr white van ‘same day delivery’ courier driver…
I think the essential difference is a fully laden HGV is capable of causing catastrophic damage if it becomes involved in any incidents. I do take on board your point though, as tired drivers can become a real threat to others on the road, irrespective of what they are driving. Like many other HGV license holders I also have a full PSV license and am sure if I was carrying 50 passengers, they would like a driver that was fresh and alert, rather than over tired ferrying them around.
Tipper driving has always unfortunately been in a league of its own with what it expects of its drivers. It comes as no surprise to those that drive them, that they are involved in a disproportionate number of accidents on our roads.
beefy4605:
I used to load in a warehouse after parking up and taking a 9 hr break ( I know - a paddy taking a 9 hr break - unheard of) . New card for the day and a 2 minute shunt to the bay and straight to break .trailer loaded in 30mins and away for a 4 hr 25 push up the road . 15 minute break and another 4 and a half to get the boat . That was legal a few years ago and is probably the reason you can’t take 30 and then 15 min break now a days . I for one am happy that I’m not driving 8 hrs 55 with only a 15 minute break in the middle .
It was common before the change of law to see drivers do a quick run round the block on a Monday morning, then put it on break while they sorted their stuff out, parked the car, had a coffee, had a blether in the yard etc. Then off down the road with only a 15 minute break when the 4 1/2 was up. A lot of drivers now would cry and bubble like little girls at the concept.
And yes it was worth it because it meant you were parked up earlier and therefore in the pub earlier. [emoji6]
Carryfast:
shep532:
From what you describe in your first post there’s nothing wrong with what they do. As long as they do not exceed 4.5 hours of driving without a minimum break of 45m or 15m followed by 30m without exceeding the 4.5 hours drivingIf I’ve read it right he’s saying after 15 minutes of driving out of around 7.5 hours total driving time take 15 minutes out of the 45 minutes break.Thereby leaving 30 minutes break to cover 7 hours + of driving.
I’ve read it again and the first paragraph seems to conflict with the second. I read it as they get 15m in then later take 30m for lunch. The 30m would therefore reset the driving period giving a fresh 4.5 hours. So yes … 7 hours plus driving with only a 30m break within it.
The 2nd paragraph then seems to suggest they only have a 30m break. But I reckon the 1st paragraph sounds right for a lot of the tipper drivers I know, and it was that scenario I commented on whereby you could drive 8hr 59m drive with a break of only 30m within that period.
I liked the 3x15 minute breaks, I could get a break in while being loaded by a Dinky Toy. It helped if I got held up later on. If things were going well and it looked like I might have to ring up office for more work I stopped for a full 45.
Contraflow is bang on about tipper drivers complaining about breaks, but they make it worse for themselves by stopping together. I used to have a 15 sometime during rush hour and let the others crawl along in traffic. When they’d all stopped together I’d get past most of them, annoying a few. Which I always enjoyed doing. 
There is a lot of difference between the example the OP has given which has a 6.45 am start, a short break and mainly daylight short stints of driving and that of a 2am start, taking a break because the load isn’t ready followed a three to four hour ‘will I make the booking time drive?’ in darkness. Follow this with a half hour or perhaps worse an RDC chair break and then a ‘will I get home drive?’
I haven’t done any real tipper work, but I have done 5 1/2 hrs stints of PSV with the very short layovers at each end of a city route which also often get swallowed up by traffic delays, and I know which of the two I find makes me want a decent recovery period in the middle.
I like spliting my breaks. Saves a lot of bother. We have a 7am drop in Newcastle so thats a 3 hour 20 min drive, it takes about an hour to unload/reload then its off the next one across the city which is normally chocka-block with traffic. Still have enough driving time but I’m sitting too close for my liking on the 6 hour rule. That 15 minute break before I leave my first drop helps me out a lot.
Carryfast:
shep532:
From what you describe in your first post there’s nothing wrong with what they do. As long as they do not exceed 4.5 hours of driving without a minimum break of 45m or 15m followed by 30m without exceeding the 4.5 hours drivingIf I’ve read it right he’s saying after 15 minutes of driving out of around 7.5 hours total driving time take 15 minutes out of the 45 minutes break.Thereby leaving 30 minutes break to cover 7 hours + of driving.
It’s perfectly legal.
shep532:
Carryfast:
shep532:
From what you describe in your first post there’s nothing wrong with what they do. As long as they do not exceed 4.5 hours of driving without a minimum break of 45m or 15m followed by 30m without exceeding the 4.5 hours drivingIf I’ve read it right he’s saying after 15 minutes of driving out of around 7.5 hours total driving time take 15 minutes out of the 45 minutes break.Thereby leaving 30 minutes break to cover 7 hours + of driving.
I’ve read it again and the first paragraph seems to conflict with the second. I read it as they get 15m in then later take 30m for lunch. The 30m would therefore reset the driving period giving a fresh 4.5 hours. So yes … 7 hours plus driving with only a 30m break within it.
The 2nd paragraph then seems to suggest they only have a 30m break. But I reckon the 1st paragraph sounds right for a lot of the tipper drivers I know, and it was that scenario I commented on whereby you could drive 8hr 59m drive with a break of only 30m within that period.
Your first description is how I read it.I’d guess that the question relates to the idea of the ‘re set’ which you’ve described which really just contradicts the idea of not exceeding 4.5 hours driving without 45 minutes break.I think the question was the result of a court case in which our authorities based it on aggregate but the EU said that re setting with the 30 minutes break was good enough.So really just yet more mad ideas contained in the EU hours regs.
The Sarge:
Carryfast:
shep532:
From what you describe in your first post there’s nothing wrong with what they do. As long as they do not exceed 4.5 hours of driving without a minimum break of 45m or 15m followed by 30m without exceeding the 4.5 hours drivingIf I’ve read it right he’s saying after 15 minutes of driving out of around 7.5 hours total driving time take 15 minutes out of the 45 minutes break.Thereby leaving 30 minutes break to cover 7 hours + of driving.
It’s perfectly legal.
As I said above it wasn’t legal here but it was then later changed by an EU ruling if I remember right.Reset v aggregate being the EU v UK argument at the time ?.Legal v sensible being another issue. 
The more I learn about the rules and regs, the more I think they were designed by a committee without a grasp on reality.
Radar19:
The more I learn about the rules and regs, the more I think they were designed by a committee without a grasp on reality.
The main issue is that the Regs are a “one size fits all” solution - applying in exactly the same way to out-all-week (or longer) trampers, to day men on multi-drop, night trunkers and to drivers who do a whole load of other stuff besides just driving. Sure, they could be simplified/rationalised but they will always be a compromise.
OK, at the risk of upsetting Carryfast. I tramp, when I wake up and do my checks I drive for about an hour (sometimes less) and take a twenty minute break to wash etc. I will then drive for up to three hours or so and take another thirty (sometimes more) and carry on with my day, taking other breaks if i can/wish to.
Park up later and never have a problem with driving my truck into the scenery.
Amazing how many drivers feel they HAVE to take 45 minutes exactly in the middle of the day. Most days I will have in excess of an hour and a half in breaks spread throughout the day, as and when I feel the need. The work gets done and I survive. As has been said, one size CANNOT fit all in this business…
…and the aggregate method was a kingsize PITA to manage on multidrop.
why is it unusual, you put it on rest if your waiting any long time and still take your 45 when you want how hard is that, if your being paid on your card then what your doing is right and the rest of them your are working with are running against the clock
The Sarge:
OK, at the risk of upsetting Carryfast. I tramp, when I wake up and do my checks I drive for about an hour (sometimes less) and take a twenty minute break to wash etc. I will then drive for up to three hours or so and take another thirty (sometimes more) and carry on with my day, taking other breaks if i can/wish to.
Park up later and never have a problem with driving my truck into the scenery.
Amazing how many drivers feel they HAVE to take 45 minutes exactly in the middle of the day. Most days I will have in excess of an hour and a half in breaks spread throughout the day, as and when I feel the need. The work gets done and I survive. As has been said, one size CANNOT fit all in this business…
I normally have almost 2 hours of break clocked in, sometimes more. I don’t get why some have to be told when to take breaks. Surely its down to the driver when he stops for a rest.
The Sarge:
Amazing how many drivers feel they HAVE to take 45 minutes exactly in the middle of the day. Most days I will have in excess of an hour and a half in breaks spread throughout the day, as and when I feel the need. The work gets done and I survive. As has been said, one size CANNOT fit all in this business…
I am basically a ‘two trick’ agency driver, I either do tippers and effluent tankers (don’t ask), or I do industrial deliveries of steel, machinery, etc. All by personal choice of what I feel comfortable with.
When I am delivering machinery or steel, I drive at a far more sedate pace, due to the inherent instability of that type of load. I take multiple breaks (on the tacho) throughout the day, as a lot of time is spent in loading and unloading, with a lot of waiting about time. In contrast with driving tippers, where it is all rushing about all day long, without a minute to spare most days, with up to 95% of your time devoted purely to driving. Many of the tipper hauliers I have encountered are only interested in numbers of loads and usually pushing their drivers to limits, which is why you seem some tipper drivers (not all) behaving like lunatics on the roads.
Whilst it not something I do myself, I know many drivers like to have a proper cooked lunch, which with busy truckstops, msa’s and even pub lunches, may mean a 20 minute wait just for your meal to arrive, so they always take a 45 minute break or longer to fit that in. If I’m driving tippers I like to take a full 45 minutes half way through the shift, as although there is virtually no handball, that type of continuous driving through urban areas can be real tiring, or should that be tiresome?
Roymondo:
LIBERTY_GUY:
Thanks for the clarification on the reset thing Raymundo. I was under the impression (rightly or wrongly) that only driving and other work come into the WTD ‘radar’ and that POA or break are essentially the same thing to satisfy that criteria? We all out of driving time well before that six hour thing comes up though.POA only pauses the 6 hr WTD clock, whereas a 15 minute break resets it to zero.
That’s not quite right. You still have to take the second 15 mins before 9 hours of work.
Road2ruin:
Roymondo:
LIBERTY_GUY:
Thanks for the clarification on the reset thing Raymundo. I was under the impression (rightly or wrongly) that only driving and other work come into the WTD ‘radar’ and that POA or break are essentially the same thing to satisfy that criteria? We all out of driving time well before that six hour thing comes up though.POA only pauses the 6 hr WTD clock, whereas a 15 minute break resets it to zero.
That’s not quite right. You still have to take the second 15 mins before 9 hours of work.
Only if your shift is nine hours or less, there’s nothing in the regulations that says you have to have at-least 30 minutes break before nine hours working time unless that’s the total shift length.
For instance if you start at 06:00 and are not going to drive over 4½ hours, you could have one hour POA at 09:00 and a 15 minute break at 13:00, you could then work until 19:15 before needing another 15 minute break.