Last week was doing work for a local tipper firm, 6.45am start in the yard, on local site at 7.15am, then waiting for the machine driver to start at about 7.45am, total driving time so far around 15 minutes. The regular drivers were putting their tachos on break, so they only had to take 30 minute lunch break, where I put mine on POA as too early into shift to be taking a break.
One of their drivers was surprised I was taking a 45 minute break for lunch, but I pointed out that with just 30 minutes break showing on his tacho between perhaps 7.50am and 5pm there was a chance he was going beyond his breaks? The usual after 4.5 driving hours either continuous or accumulated a driver must take a break of 45 minutes. Do bear in mind there is very little āother workā on local hop tipper work as usually five minutes to load and two minutes to unload, so nearly all driving. I was typically showing around 7 to 7.5 hours driving on my own tacho, so was wondering what other peoples thoughts were on this. Am not saying I have got it right and they have got it wrong, but taking the wording at face value, after 4.5 hours driving you need to be having a 45 minute break? It is an unusual question as never been in a situation where guys are taking a break after just fifteen minutes of driving into their shift.
The guy splitting his 45 minute break is no more likely to be exceeding his 4.5 hrs drive time than you are. That 4.5 hrs doesnāt reset until all 45 minutes have been taken (which from what you say will be around the same time of day in both cases).
The āadvantageā of splitting the break is that the WTD six-hour rule wonāt kick in for them until about 1345, whereas you will be needing to book a break half an hour earlier. Probably not an issue but itās nice to have the flexibility should it become necessary.
Most likely though these guys have been on building site work for years and years - from my observation of such work itās pretty much traditional to have a break soon after arriving on site, before starting the āproperā work.
Roymondo:
The āadvantageā of splitting the break is that the WTD six-hour rule wonāt kick in for them until about 1345, whereas you will be needing to book a break half an hour earlier. Probably not an issue but itās nice to have the flexibility should it become necessary.
Most likely though these guys have been on building site work for years and years - from my observation of such work itās pretty much traditional to have a break soon after arriving on site, before starting the āproperā work.
Thanks for the clarification on the reset thing Raymundo. I was under the impression (rightly or wrongly) that only driving and other work come into the WTD āradarā and that POA or break are essentially the same thing to satisfy that criteria? We all out of driving time well before that six hour thing comes up though.
The motivation for the guys putting their tachos onto break this early, had more to do with being petrified of their boss, rather than for any practical reason. The agency guys that were driving for them, have a somewhat different criteria, like also keeping rigidly to the speed limits and keeping a clean license for the next contract.
On most agency contracts I just book 30 minutes break and am paid accordingly. These tight wads though take a full 45 minutes off the agency drivers, so obviously I have the full 45 minutes when my pre break driving hours are up. The breaks are my own (unpaid) time so I take them away from the job. The regular guys donāt have paid breaks, but have no idea whether their unpaid stint is 30 or 45 minutes?
LIBERTY_GUY:
Thanks for the clarification on the reset thing Raymundo. I was under the impression (rightly or wrongly) that only driving and other work come into the WTD āradarā and that POA or break are essentially the same thing to satisfy that criteria? We all out of driving time well before that six hour thing comes up though.
POA only pauses the 6 hr WTD clock, whereas a 15 minute break resets it to zero.
Not uncommon Liberty Guy. I had a half hour break this morning, but as itās Friday and things have gone well Iām having another 45 right now. All paid no questions asked.
Iām paid hourly, and my boss tells me to ābook 'til 5ā if Iām finished before that or I work overtime and help with any screening in the yard. For all the jobsworthy curtain twitchers out there this work is recorded on my tacho. Being hourly paid, no bonus means Iām not as fast as other tipper drivers. Which Iām pleased to say, annoys a few of them.
On the job Iām on out of 35 tippers that turned up at the site this morning everyone of us had a 15 min break and about 20 of us only drive 800yards to the site!
Gass:
On the job Iām on out of 35 tippers that turned up at the site this morning everyone of us had a 15 min break and about 20 of us only drive 800yards to the site!
Common practice at one of my customers running about 45 tippers. They only get paid for a 30 minute lunch break so all the drivers take 15m as soon as they can and then 30m for lunch
Usually they drive it round the yard, stick it on break and have a ā ā ā then off they go. Works for them
This particular firm has already had drivers busted for non compliance with drivers hours, so definitely wary as to how they operate. Give an unrealistic number of expected loads that nobody is actually able to achieve and try to put the pressure on their own guys all the time by threatening to inspect tacho records or deduct monies etc. Doesnāt wash with the agency drivers though, as we all crack on, but keep it strictly legal.
As long as they keep deducting 45 minutes break, then thatās what the agency guys will continue to do, away from the job. I was just curious as to why one of their regular drivers should be surprised that we took a full and legitimate 45 minute break.
LIBERTY_GUY:
This particular firm has already had drivers busted for non compliance with drivers hours, so definitely wary as to how they operate. Give an unrealistic number of expected loads that nobody is actually able to achieve and try to put the pressure on their own guys all the time by threatening to inspect tacho records or deduct monies etc. Doesnāt wash with the agency drivers though, as we all crack on, but keep it strictly legal.
As long as they keep deducting 45 minutes break, then thatās what the agency guys will continue to do, away from the job. I was just curious as to why one of their regular drivers should be surprised that we took a full and legitimate 45 minute break.
From what you describe in your first post thereās nothing wrong with what they do. As long as they do not exceed 4.5 hours of driving without a minimum break of 45m or 15m followed by 30m without exceeding the 4.5 hours driving
There is nothing wrong with with what you have done done LG. Equally there is nothing wrong with what the full time lads did. As a boss I know which one I would like to see, but your Agency so quite rightly you donāt care. Enjoy, and donāt sweat it.
F-reds:
There is nothing wrong with with what you have done done LG. Equally there is nothing wrong with what the full time lads did. As a boss I know which one I would like to see, but your Agency so quite rightly you donāt care. Enjoy, and donāt sweat it.
Let me guess - Youād rather see your drivers taking those pesky breaks right at the start of the day so they donāt stop work for so long later on (when they are likely to actually be feeling the need for a break due to fatigue)ā¦?
Yes Roymundo I would. Not because Iām a hypothetical slave driver, but because you are still having the same amount of breaks if you split it or if you donāt, itās just that the second break is shorter. If there was any kind of scientific proof that it was detrimental, it wouldnāt be legal.
I just donāt really believe in ā ā ā ā taking, either by the employer, or the employee. But as the OP is neither he doesnāt need to worry about it does he?
Itās not ā ā ā ā taking really? God forbid a driver to have a full 45mins. Im full time and wont let employer dictate when or how long my employer thinks I should have a break. Donāt care if he prefers me to have a split i still have a full 45 (I prefer to have a little snooze:)). Judging from your post I think you think having a full 45 is a ā ā ā ā take? Maybe just read like it though. Hope I did read it wrong. Its people like you who are greedy penny pinchers with miserable employees. I certainly wouldnāt work for you. I can imagine you saying to a driver āwhy are you taking the ā ā ā ā ? Have 15 as soon as you start then only have to have 30 when we are busy.ā Itās my break which you probably deduct, so I will have it when or how long I bloody want toā¦
Rant over and apologise in advance if it just read wrong;)
I used to load in a warehouse after parking up and taking a 9 hr break ( I know - a paddy taking a 9 hr break - unheard of ) . New card for the day and a 2 minute shunt to the bay and straight to break .trailer loaded in 30mins and away for a 4 hr 25 push up the road . 15 minute break and another 4 and a half to get the boat . That was legal a few years ago and is probably the reason you canāt take 30 and then 15 min break now a days . I for one am happy that Iām not driving 8 hrs 55 with only a 15 minute break in the middle .
shep532:
From what you describe in your first post thereās nothing wrong with what they do. As long as they do not exceed 4.5 hours of driving without a minimum break of 45m or 15m followed by 30m without exceeding the 4.5 hours driving
If Iāve read it right heās saying after 15 minutes of driving out of around 7.5 hours total driving time take 15 minutes out of the 45 minutes break.Thereby leaving 30 minutes break to cover 7 hours + of driving.
