Unreasonable?

[rob_k]

So I’ve been doing a bit of work for a local company recently and last week I was asked to take a loaded trailer down south, drop it and bring an empty one back, job done.

I didn’t feel like it and a guy who I know had said to me ages ago that if I ever didn’t fancy it, give him a bell and he’d do it instead, as it pays a good number you see. Anyway, I belled him up and we agreed a figure for him to do the job and I gave him the details and left it with him.

12.40am and I’m in bed asleep when I’m woken up by my bell ringing. I answer and it’s the driver on the other end.

Me: It’d better be good John…
John: Umm, no it isn’t…
Me: Oh ffs. Go on…
John: I’ve just got to Bristol with the trailer and was about to drop it off when I noticed that I’ve brought the wrong one down.
Me: Oh you’ve got to be [zb] joking?
John: Er. No.
Me: Well didn’t you check the [zb] seal before you left?
John: No, I’ve never checked one yet. If the seal’s intact I just take it.
Me: Oh ffs John, how could you be so [zb] slack man? If you’d have checked the [zb] seal like you’re supposed to, you’d have realised that it didn’t match the notes and hence wrong trailer alert!. What are you telling me then? You need someone to bring down the right trailer now I presume?
John: Er, yeah.

So I hauled my arse out of bed, went in, grabbed a unit and off I went with the correct one along with half a dozen cans of Red Bull and John brought the other one (for Carlisle at 10am) back.

6am comes along and my bell’s ringing with the gaffer of the company on the other end of it asking what the [zb]'s happened so I told him. All well and good but they need the unit I’m in for a morning delivery and they have no others spare. Nice. Oh well, we’ll have to hire in a unit then and you’ll have to stump the cost plus did I mention that you’ll have to pay for the extra diesel used to go to Bristol and back twice as well?

Anyway, went to see him on my way home from work this morning and luckily caught him in a good mood and managed to negotiate a “compensation” figure which he’s relatively happy with although it means both myself and John have worked for nothing. Problem is, I belled John up and told him what had happened and said that I wouldn’t be paying him for making such a [zb] up and costing me dear but reckons he’s going to take me to court for non-payment of monies due. I told him to stop being some selfish and ridiculous and put himself in my position but he wouldn’t have it. He wants his £100 but afaic he’ll be in for a long wait.

Given the circumstances, do you think I’m being unreasonable in refusing to pay him? I think he’s got a [zb] nerve to be perfectly honest.

[wobble]

Presumably the two of you have written contracts detailing working hours, conditions etc? Thought not, I’d tell him he’s not getting paid, and I’m sure he won’t make the same mistake again!!

[Lasurazes]

Rob K, unreasonable, never, he’s the most reasonable man I know

[harry]

“With friends like John…”…You know the rest.

[mike-c]

Rob K:
Given the circumstances, do you think I’m being unreasonable in refusing to pay him? I think he’s got a [zb] nerve to be perfectly honest.

I’d of thought if you agree to pay him (on paper, say) and then deduct it from what you are going to have to pay out, expecting him of course to help pay to put it right?

[r143-500]

Rob, I dont think it unreasonable at all. This guy has cocked up big time and needs to hold his hands up and accept it was his lack of attention that has cost you time, money and the embarrassment of sorting out his mess. He deserves something for his action may I suggest a poke in the eye with a (zb)stick

small language edit mm

[fred]

It’s harsh, but I’d suggest that John has a case for being paid at least something. We’ve had the odd incidence of ‘Wrong trailer Grommitt’ and on every occasion we’ve paid the driver concerned and paid our share for the recovery efforts (taking the right trailer and shifting the wrong one to the right place etc). We may keep the original driver’s hours down to the length of the job as originally planned though.

How these things happen is rarely clear, even though the driver is the easiest and most obvious point of blame. How easy it would be for the operator to avoid it happening is very clear. A simple check at the gate would do it.

[mrpj]

Rob K:
Given the circumstances, do you think I’m being unreasonable in refusing to pay him?

No, IMO I think you’re perfectly right not to. What a complete /zb/ he’s being threatening court action.

[tramper]

Welcome to the wonderful world of the employer Rob!
BTW Have you got Employers liability insurance? If you employ staff, you are required to have it.

[tallyman]

Simple lesson learnt here - don’t rely on other people!!

[thecoder0]

I think he has got a bloody cheek mate…How basic is checking the trailer seal

He should be big enough to write it off as experience.

Don’t Pay him ROB.

[mothertrucker]

Simple lesson learnt here - don’t rely on other people!!

Too right!!!

And if you do - then take the phone off the hook.

[conor]

If you employed him, you have to pay him regardless of what cockups and damage he does.

He’s perfectly within his rights to take you to court for it if you refuse to pay.

Whether it’s morally right or not is another issue but legally, he’s spot on.

The only time you could have claimed losses is if he’d walked off the job and left without notice in effect.

[brit_pete]

ROB K you will unfortunatly need to pay the person
not only because he carried out work for you but
YOU are the one who put this person forward
YOU are the one who recommened him as being
a person who is of good repute
YOU are the one who was also if i have read your post correctly
employed this person to carry out work and so YOU will be liable also
ROB K do you have yourself entered any where as employment agencey
as this may be point against youin the court as well mate

AS YOU WOULD SAY PUT IT DOWN TO EXPERIENCE
AND NEXT TIME ENSURE THE DRIVER IS UP TO IT

PAY HIM ITS EASYER

[johnny]

well rob, you are not the boss, you are working for another operator and it was your work to do, you didn’t do it and offered the job to another driver although you don’t employ him, he has made a mistake by not doing the job right.

i take it both he and you are self employed?

you have not only had to work for nothing but have also had to shell out of your own pocket for expenses caused due to your friend not doing the job right.

you should also send your friend an invoice for his share of the money you have had to lay out.

your friend doesn’t have a leg to stand on unless you or the operator employ him and pay his tax and ni contributions.

the job you offered was to take a specific trailer to a specific destination and bring back a different trailer, he has failed to carry out those instructions.
as a self employed person he and you should hold insurance for such eventualities so as to cover the costs of mistakes/accidents.

if he isn’t self employed and you are paying him cash then he is cheating the tax office as well as you - who should be ensuring he is a registered self employed person.

i assume everything was word of mouth?

send the invoice asap with usual payment terms.

[scab-in-a-cab]

As you alwaus like to “tell it like it is”

Welcome to the world of employing people or delegating work to subbies. You’ve got off lightly. One of the reasons I have no desire to ever employ another idiot again, nobody will ever do the job the way you want it done - end of.

[dennisw1]

for the reasons Johnny has outlined above i doubt the guy will take you to court.

Ask him what he actually wants payment for? I mean taking the wrong trailer is just the same as taking none at all.

[eddie_snax]

I can see where your coming from Rob,

but becareful that this idiot doesnt land you in hot water, after all he doesnt apear to be very bright , and as such may not think about the consequences of going to court . To me , your set up with him appears a bit dubious , and as such questions that even you find hard to answer may be asked .

On the other hand bluff him out, maybe he’ll think twice if you dont back down

[longwayround]

This one is a classic “if it can go wrong ,it will go wrong” story.
I’m only laughing cause it wasn’t me.

[paul_b]

scab-in-a-cab:
As you alwaus like to “tell it like it is”

Welcome to the world of employing people or delegating work to subbies. You’ve got off lightly. One of the reasons I have no desire to ever employ another idiot again, nobody will ever do the job the way you want it done - end of.

don’t think anyone could’ve put it better!