Oh dear. Where’s the “shaking head” emoticon? I wish I’d never said anything. All I’m getting is “insurance this, insurance that, employed, employee, blah blah”.
Are you lot seriously telling me that whenever you give a friend/mate/someone you know a bit of work to do for you, you say that they’ll need to self-employed, have injury insurance etc?
This site really isdo-gooders.com, just like I’ve been saying for years.
If there’s anyone out there like me that works cash in hand / backhanders / favours for beers etc then it’d be good to hear your thoughts. Everyone else that just wants to question the employment law, insurance, what-if-he-had-an-accident aspects, just forget it and find a different thread to air your do-gooding thoughts on.
As far as the story goes, I’ve decided that he won’t be getting a penny off me and because of his cheek telling me that he’s gonna take me to court, he’ll be getting a bill for £200 for the diesel now too. [zb]
Rob K:
This site really isdo-gooders.com, just like I’ve been saying for years.
If there’s anyone out there like me that works cash in hand / backhanders / favours for beers etc then it’d be good to hear your thoughts. Everyone else that just wants to question the employment law, insurance, what-if-he-had-an-accident aspects, just forget it and find a different thread to air your do-gooding thoughts on.
Just sometimes, Rob, you sound like a man after me own heart then I remember you’re a Yorkshireman pmsl
Rob K:
Are you lot seriously telling me that whenever you give a friend/mate/someone you know a bit of work to do for you, you say that they’ll need to self-employed, have injury insurance etc?
Yes, funilly enough, its the law.
Rob K:
If there’s anyone out there like me that works cash in hand / backhanders / favours for beers etc then it’d be good to hear your thoughts.
Does that include the Tax man Rob?
Rob K:
Everyone else that just wants to question the employment law, insurance, what-if-he-had-an-accident aspects, just forget it and find a different thread to air your do-gooding thoughts on.
In today’s litigious world, only a complete moron would employ someone without covering themselves.
Rob K:
Are you lot seriously telling me that whenever you give a friend/mate/someone you know a bit of work to do for you, you say that they’ll need to self-employed, have injury insurance etc?
Rob K:
Are you lot seriously telling me that whenever you give a friend/mate/someone you know a bit of work to do for you, you say that they’ll need to self-employed, have injury insurance etc?
Yup. Just sorted this out with a couple of mates this last week because work is taking off to the point where there’s work there for another couple of people on various weeks as and when.
It’s done properly set out in stone with contracts between us. They know what rate they’ll be paid, when they’ll get it and what liabilities they have. I do the same whether it’s friends or whoever.
That way Rob, if a situation like yours arises, I won’t be having to post on Trucknet “Do you think it’s unreasonable to pay him” as well as potentially losing a friendship because we fall out over money.
You have a contract with your client, which is why they’re going to claim off you, so why shouldn’t terms be set out between you and who you employ temporarily?
And if I were you, I’d get someone who has a clue to write you a new set of T&C if the company you’ve been doing work for is able to screw you for vehicle hire and diesel for two runs to Bristol. I know that sure as hell my clients can’t and they know it too.
Rob K:
If there’s anyone out there like me that works cash in hand / backhanders / favours for beers etc then it’d be good to hear your thoughts.
If you do that in transport you want your chuffing head examined. It has many potential serious pitfalls.
Say something happened like it did to a bloke I know on Thursday where a trailer became detached from an oncoming Transit, crushing him in his cab breaking his arms and legs and resulting in him being out of work for three or four months? What are you going to do then? You going to pay him lost wages for the next four months because he can’t claim on your employers liability? After all, he can’t get a thing from you because in effect he doesn’t exist as far as your company is concerned.
Are you even sure that he was covered under the vehicle insurance at the company you had him driving at? That’d have been interesting in an accident…the company you’re doing work for coupld very easily deny all knowledge because as far as they’re concerned, it is you who should have been behind the wheel.
Rob, i think its just a case of you have learnt your lesson, wipe your mouth and walk away and dont do it again.
Put yourself in the other blokes position, would you expect paying for it?
I think in your position i would be doing the same as you, but i may call the bloke and do a deal of some sort with him. If he argues he dont get zip. As for insurances and all the “its against the law” stuff everyone is shouting about, everyone does things they shouldnt, huge multi national companies included., its just some of us admit it and some of us dont.
Rob K:
As far as the story goes, I’ve decided that he won’t be getting a penny off me and because of his cheek telling me that he’s gonna take me to court, he’ll be getting a bill for £200 for the diesel now too. [zb]
You said it was a backhander job. It was a backhander job so in effect he never worked for you. How can you bill him? You can’t bill someone who has never worked for you can you?
Or now that you’ve lost money on it you’ve suddenly decided it wasn’t a backhander job?
So was he working for you or self employed or haven’t you decided yet?
If he was doing it employed, you can’t bill him for it and you can’t refuse to pay him and as well as that you’re liable for the employers contribution for his NI as well as holiday pay should he so wish to really stick the axe in.
If he was doing it self employed, what are you going to say if he produces a set of T&C’s like mine that state he’s not liable for any costs? You don’t need to have signed the T&C’s stating you agreed because by giving him work, you’re deemed to have agreed to them.
Is this how you run your business?
If I were you, I’d take the losses and chalk it up to experience. Judging from this topic by the way it sounds like you run your business, he could cause you a world of grief far beyond £300 or so especially if he knows you and has done guvvy jobs for you in the past.
It’d be very easy for him to come out of it smelling of roses with the HMR&C even if it costs him a few quid in taxes on undeclared work assuming he doesn’t declare it. I know I’d certainly happily pay a few hundred quid out to the taxman for work I didn’t declare if I knew I could screw someone who tried to shaft me.
Pay him his money, pay your client, get a decent set of terms and conditions for your business and chalk it down to experience but don’t give the bloke another days work.
BuzzardBoy:
I think in your position i would be doing the same as you, but i may call the bloke and do a deal of some sort with him. If he argues he dont get zip. As for insurances and all the “its against the law” stuff everyone is shouting about, everyone does things they shouldnt, huge multi national companies included., its just some of us admit it and some of us dont.
Difference is though that Rob is jumping up and down instead of keeping his gob shut, forking out the money and chalking it up as the one he didn’t get away with.
I have a mate who owns an amusement arcade. He occassionally employed “mates” adhoc as backhanders and every single one of them had their hand in the till. He paid them at the end of the week and just never gave them work again. He knows exactly how much they had off him but in the end it ended up cheaper than employing someone on the books etc and he accepted that. Didn’t like it but he said he supposed he’d have to chalk it down to experience but they never worked there twice.
Rob K:
Are you lot seriously telling me that whenever you give a friend/mate/someone you know a bit of work to do for you, you say that they’ll need to self-employed, have injury insurance etc?
Yes, funilly enough, its the law.
Unreal. [zb]
Just for the hard of thinking…you listening Rob?
The highlighted text describes an employee, hence is governed by the Employers Liability (Compulsory Insurance) act 1969.
“Employers are required to take out insurance against liability for employee’s being injured or contracting disease as a result of their work. The policy must include cover to the value of a minimum £2 million arising out of any single occurance. Failure to have this insurance in place can lead to fines on the employer of up to £2500 for every day of non compliance. Furthermore, the employer must ensure that a copy of the certificate of insurance is displayed at the place of business. Failure to display the certificate is an offence for which fines of up to £1000 can be immposed for every day of non compliance.”
Of course, you have the responsibility to pay the employers percentage towards your employee’s graduated contributions, and income tax, unless your friend is a self employed person and issues you an invoice.
OH FFS, SHUT THE [ZB] UP ABOUT YOUR CONTRACTS, TAX, NI, LIABILITY INSURANCE, HOLIDAY PAY, EMPLOYEE ETC ETC ETC.
It was a cash in ■■■■■■■■, end of.[/size][/b] He knew the risks involved if anything went wrong, just like I did. This isn’t the discussion. The discussion is about whether he deserves his money. Just forget the whole thread; just [ZB] forget it man. What a total bunch of [zb] [zb] do-gooding [zb] [zb] heads you lot are. Just [zb] off.
ROB K calm down and cool off YOU was the one who posted
about this,YOU asked for people to give their opinions,So YOU
should have the commonsense and also good manners not
to post such a load of idiotic remarks ,Think about this even if
you belive that you are in the right,well you are not and it hurts
to be made to look a idiot and have to pay ,but thats life so
learn from this mistake and ensure that you are not caught
out ever again,also take in what some of the members posted
as it is relevant and in some cases the LAW as well,
better luck next time with a differant driver perhaps??
brit pete:
ROB K calm down and cool off YOU was the one who posted
about this,YOU asked for people to give their opinions
Yes opinions on whether he should be paid or not, nothing else.
So YOU
should have the commonsense and also good manners not
to post such a load of idiotic remarks
Well if people stopped questioning the legalities or it, blowing it all out of proportion that I wouldn’t need to lose my rag
Think about this even if
you belive that you are in the right,well you are not and it hurts
to be made to look a idiot and have to pay ,but thats life so
learn from this mistake and ensure that you are not caught
out ever again
Sorry but I don’t think that’s a valid enough reason at all. If I’d done the job for someone I’d losely describe as a mate and [zb] up like he had then I would most certainly NOT expect to be paid and would also offer money out of my own pocket to put it right when I’d learnt that my mate was being screwed for extra diesel and a partial cost of a hiring a unit. I would do that without question. To demand payment for the work that I’ve [zb] up big style on would quite simply not happen, EVER.
better luck next time with a differant driver perhaps??
Rob K:
: It was a cash in ■■■■■■■■, end of.[/size][/b] He knew the risks involved if anything went wrong, just like I did. [/quote] Did he? Obviously he didn’t.
Rob K:
Sorry but I don’t think that’s a valid enough reason at all. If I’d done the job for someone I’d losely describe as a mate and [zb] up like he had then I would most certainly NOT expect to be paid and would also offer money out of my own pocket to put it right when I’d learnt that my mate was being screwed for extra diesel and a partial cost of a hiring a unit. I would do that without question. To demand payment for the work that I’ve [zb] up big style on would quite simply not happen, EVER.
I’d not expect to be paid but having to divvy up for the diesel, well stuff that. After all, I would have been doing YOU a favour as a supposed mate in the first place and having staff ■■■■ up is one of the risks of being in business.
Sounds like you want all of the good things in business but refuse to accept any of the bad.
Tough luck. These things happen. If you don’t like it either get yourself a decent contract, unlike the one you apparently have, which protects you from any costs to your client from you or your employee ■■■■ ups or get out of business and go back to working for someone.
Rob K:
Sorry but I don’t think that’s a valid enough reason at all. If I’d done the job for someone I’d losely describe as a mate and [zb] up like he had then I would most certainly NOT expect to be paid and would also offer money out of my own pocket to put it right when I’d learnt that my mate was being screwed for extra diesel and a partial cost of a hiring a unit. I would do that without question. To demand payment for the work that I’ve [zb] up big style on would quite simply not happen, EVER.
I’d not expect to be paid but having to divvy up for the diesel, well stuff that. After all, I would be doing YOU a favour and having staff ■■■■ up is one of the risks of being in business.
Sounds like you want all of the good things in business but refuse to accept any of the bad.
Tough luck. These things happen. If you don’t like it either get yourself a decent contract, unlike the one you apparently have, which protects you from any costs to your client from you or your employee ■■■■ ups or get out of business and go back to working for someone.
No. I’ll do the job meself in future, then I’ll know it’ll get done right.
I accept that mistakes happen but this was blatant negligence on his part. Checking the seal and trailer number is vital with this customer because it’s high value stuff and if the seals don’t match at the other end, there’s hell on and a lot of finger pointing. If he’d checked the seal then he’d have realised he had the wrong trailer. There’s simply no excusing him. The trailer numbers are in big numbers on the front, back and sides (boxes similar to sea containers).
Why is the world full of numpties that can’t perform a simple task? No wonder this country is turning into a nanny state - it needs to as every other [zb] does indeed need someone to nanny them 24/7 because they can’t think for themselves.
I wish I’d never said anything. All I’m getting is “insurance this, insurance that, employed, employee, blah blah”.
… 
