The,URTU recently lost a appeal to the Queens court,
They were requesting a judicial review.
Its a interesting case.
Search for it in google
If your interested in working time regulations and periods of,availability ,then these two judgement may help.
URTU v DFT
Ross v stobart.
Mmmm very interesting, so you can take poa just about anywhere, it seems no one has a clue about the finer points of wtd rtd and all the other ‘things’ associated with driving.
I wonder how many times Ive failed to notice going over my 17 week hours?
Bobtailvw:
Mmmm very interesting, so you can take poa just about anywhere, it seems no one has a clue about the finer points of wtd rtd and all the other ‘things’ associated with driving.I wonder how many times Ive failed to notice going over my 17 week hours?
Some companies have computer programmes to work it all out whereas most do not seem to bother including the authorities it seems
What seems to have happened is the the EU made a directive which the UK must either make law for or face high fines so they made the law and put ‘in place’ an authority (VOSA) to oversee it but not give them any staff to do it with or make sanctions for non compliance in their sanctions list
The reality, IMO, is that everything is legally in place to satisfy the EU but no UK authority actually does owt about it or seems bothered about it
ROG:
Bobtailvw:
Mmmm very interesting, so you can take poa just about anywhere, it seems no one has a clue about the finer points of wtd rtd and all the other ‘things’ associated with driving.I wonder how many times Ive failed to notice going over my 17 week hours?
Some companies have computer programmes to work it all out whereas most do not seem to bother including the authorities it seems
What seems to have happened is the the EU made a directive which the UK must either make law for or face high fines so they made the law and put ‘in place’ an authority (VOSA) to oversee it but not give them any staff to do it with or make sanctions for non compliance in their sanctions list
The reality, IMO, is that everything is legally in place to satisfy the EU but no UK authority actually does owt about it or seems bothered about it
Bang on the money. Imo
Eureka.you got it.
And the unknown fiddling goes on.
Take,a break
.and I don’t mean a kitkat
Can anyone provide a link to the urtu v dft case, I can’t seem to find it.
If you add up all the junk we need to keep in our minds about what law we have just broken/about to break its a good thing that driving is second nature, if we had to think about that too we’d be knackered.
I’m new to this site so i’m not sure how,to put a link on from my smart phone.
I found the URTU v DFT by researching Ross v stobart.
If you go on google and type peter Ross v Eddie stobart ,in the list,will be,the URTU case,look for,a link that’s,says Essex.
Its hard to find.
Ill put,a,link on when I get home.
I’m at lyme truck stop at the moment,having my second half hour.
I don’t fiddle anything.
I don’t break the law to obey the law.
You know like,speeding to find some where to stop for your,driving break…
Its fiddling that’s ruined this job. Not doo gooders.
Stay health out there.
Do you feel angry and stressed, in a rush, don’t make,that dead line hour,headline
Have you ever worked until your legs felt numb.
15hour planners.
That’s not right.
Complain to your employer at your peril. 
A lot of drivers have complained, only to be told…theres the gate…it seems the DOT has a lot top answer allowing drivers to HAVE to work a 15 hour day, as a lot of employers are implementing, we used to have a max 13 hr day, and then DOT allowed an extra 2 hrs to get to a place of safety, after being held up by heavy traffic, RTAs etc, and now it seems that its the norm, with some planners telling drivers, I can make you work 15 hrs every day`…whats next, do away with the rules altogether, and run as bent as you want, like in the good old days…ha ha
Remedies for road transportworkers in… | Essex Court Chambers www.essexcourt.net/…/remedies-for-road…13 Jul 2012 — R (United Road Transport Union) v Secretary of State for Transport. In a judgment , handed down today …
That’s the link.
Type united road transport union and the secretary of state for transport,type into google search
The full judgement is .there
URTU are a good union.
I only had a basic understanding of,POA until I had an issue with stobartos. Its not only stobs ,the industry relies on working time avoidance,
Or is it working time evasion.
Nobody should have to loophole the regulations as though it normal.
Waiting is part of the job.
I mean lets face it long hours do have implications with fatigue.
Nobody wants to be involved in a accident.
Driving a hgv is a big responsibility and has to be properly regulated.
Simple mistakes like damaging your truck or bad driving are signs of fatigue to say the least.
The industry should recognise that truckers work very long hours and do so continuously.
Here is a solution.
Employees who work under the road transport working time
should have there holidays
Calculate the amount of duty time the mobile worker is at the workstation.
Based on the current statutory holiday entitlement for most workers who work 40hours a week, they get,about 20-25 days off.
On a rough estimate at the current amount of 60 to 70 hours a week for a mobile worker.
The mobile worker should get around 45 to 50 days paid statutory holidays.
The more the driver the more statutory holidays he should get.
So that he may recuperated
This would create more jobs did drivers to fill the gap.
Obviously it would cost,
That’s one solution.
I explained this to a driver,he was over 60 years aged.
He said " but I don’t want time off" I like working he said"
You know what I said, you look shattered,
If any one has any suggestions,apart from nasty suggestions ,I Would value any views…
Before 2004 (I think) we never had the RTD so why all the fuss about it now ?
If the idea was to reduce the hours a driver can work then it missed its target which was the intention of the UK Govt because they want employers to have the upper hand
If that is not true then why did the UK Govt object to the original plan of having a 48 hour week which meant the time from clocking in to clocking off ?
The road network is much busier,
Its at bursting point.
Situations,change and the government should act,
They,do and,they don’t.
I think its scandalously wrong that drivers in particular can,work,so many hours,continually.
Its all about money and percentages.
The government are slow to tackle this issue as the industrialist kick up a stink saying that’s its not,affordable.
They don’t think drivers deserve a proper quality of life and work.
I mean some drivers, bottles of ■■■■ out,of windows and grubby lay byes.
I think drivers should get statutory holidays based on the hours,they work.
I’m pretty sure of two fatal,accidents from hgv that if yourself be, were caused by working crazy hours.
Hi Ross
If you had a issue with the amount of hours you were working and you have a contract that say the agreed hours you work, lets say 48 hours in this case, you have the right to only work them hours if you are pressured in working more you can take your employer to a tribunal for breach of contract, no company can force you to work more that your contracted hours.
Coming back to your case in the week you had to come in and sit down on POA how many hours had you already worked, and how many hours did your contract say you had to do for you basic pay before overtime ( overtime can be paid at the same rate as you normal rate) came in to play. I ask because if for instant your contract said 48 hours for the week and say you came in on the first day as asked, you had done 40 work you could have said your contracted for 48 hours completed the 8 hours on POA and arranged the other hours to be done next week, if there then said no you will do them this week, then that would be a case for a tribunal as it a breach of contract.
There is law to protect you from working more than your contracted hours.
The breaks in the RTD are far more better than the Working time 20 minutes is all you get on that one. and before the RTD was introduced the week was a lot longer and the was no 60 hour rule max or 48 hour over 17 weeks.
with regards you saying you should get more leave if you worked more hours again it come to your contract of employment if your employer said in the contract that you holiday entitlement is 20 day leave and 8 statutory and bank holidays then that what you get, some contracts give you more holiday for time served but there don’t have to, all there have to give you is 5.6 day per week if you work a 5 day week,the overtime hours you do are just a choice thing like i said you don’t have to do them.( and i know some will say you wont have a job for long)
gov.uk/overtime-your-rights/overview
Have a look at the above link.
delboytwo:
Hi RossIf you had a issue with the amount of hours you were working and you have a contract that say the agreed hours you work, lets say 48 hours in this case, you have the right to only work them hours if you are pressured in working more you can take your employer to a tribunal for breach of contract, no company can force you to work more that your contracted hours.
Coming back to your case in the week you had to come in and sit down on POA how many hours had you already worked, and how many hours did your contract say you had to do for you basic pay before overtime ( overtime can be paid at the same rate as you normal rate) came in to play. I ask because if for instant your contract said 48 hours for the week and say you came in on the first day as asked, you had done 40 work you could have said your contracted for 48 hours completed the 8 hours on POA and arranged the other hours to be done next week, if there then said no you will do them this week, then that would be a case for a tribunal as it a breach of contract.
There is law to protect you from working more than your contracted hours.
The breaks in the RTD are far more better than the Working time 20 minutes is all you get on that one. and before the RTD was introduced the week was a lot longer and the was no 60 hour rule max or 48 hour over 17 weeks.
with regards you saying you should get more leave if you worked more hours again it come to your contract of employment if your employer said in the contract that you holiday entitlement is 20 day leave and 8 statutory and bank holidays then that what you get, some contracts give you more holiday for time served but there don’t have to, all there have to give you is 5.6 day per week if you work a 5 day week,the overtime hours you do are just a choice thing like i said you don’t have to do them.( and i know some will say you wont have a job for long)
gov.uk/overtime-your-rights/overview
Have a look at the above link.
Good points delboytwo would be a far better industry for drivers to work in if we stood together individually and collectively and worked within the rules and stuck to the contracted hours ment to work weekly instead of allowing numerous employers continously override rules regulations only one knows what the working week would be if UK where exempt from wtd/eudirectives.
tuckman:
Good points delboytwo would be a far better industry for drivers to work in if we stood together individually and collectively and worked within the rules and stuck to the contracted hours ment to work weekly instead of allowing numerous employers continously override rules regulations only one knows what the working week would be if UK where exempt from wtd/eudirectives.
Thanks for that truckman, and i do agree, but as the say where two a penny, and there will be and is someone out there that will and does do it for pennies and work the hours, but we all need to live and feed are self’s and are families
What is all the fuss about get over it and move on with your life. Trucky that sounds like a plan get rid of the whole rtd thing its nothing more than a paper chase anyway we all the regs needed in the tacho regs ross you say your legs hurt after a 15hr day were you walking or driving for that shift come on change the record
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Truck drivers aren’t two a penny.
Its 2 units to 1 whole.
Truck drivers unknowingly decrease there true worth and potential by the false assumption that more is more.
The,wise man say.
More is less.
So
Less is more.
I remember reading some graffiti in the back of a trailer,
It said
You are reading this because you didn’t do very well at school
,ring any bells,