Unite do it again!

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
81

Carryfast:

stevieboy308:

commonrail:
what…exactly does standing up for yourself mean?

boss,i want more money.
you can`t have any
ok,i quit
see ya then.

and anyway…going by the number of people who openly mock another man for the rates he earns…it does`t sound like there is too much of a problem anyway.

sounds to me like you`re all raking it in :sunglasses:

on the same vein, i’ve asked in the past what is exactly meant by sticking together, i didn’t get an answer!

If you’d have been there when the unions brought down Heath you’d know what sticking together means.[/quote

Yes, and didn’t the conservatives get their own back and make sure it didn’t happen again or did you forget that bit!!!

82

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-24758166

And something similar on the front page of one of the national daily newspapers. Whether it was under orders from Unite on high or not I do not know but someone wants a stretch in klink for this.

83

manic-merc:
Okay, lets make it simpler, what good has a union, any union , done in the last 25 years? There you go nice and easy and in living memory.

(I think we can all agree that they cocked up the 70’s and the early 80’s) :cry:

I’m pretty confident that the answer will be f*** all! But I have an open mind.

Ready, steady, GO!

worked on the railways for 28 years in 1994 the RMT held a series of strikes of 24hr strikes that brought Railtrack to the negotiating table which resulted in a settlement that saw my wages rise 11% my hours fall from 39 to 37 hours a week my roster change so that i had every other weekend off oh and my shifts could no longer exeed 12 hours .

i think my union did rather a good job of representing me dont you ?

84

manic-merc:
I’d just like a healthy debate on the for’s and against’s of being a union member.

I want to be part of a proud and strong movement doing some good and helping a working man, history is irrelevant now. Lets go back only 10 years, what good have they done?

They must have done something good surely? Even football teams lose die hard supporters when they do badly, so what is the benefit of a union, what can they point to as proof of being a member produces positive results?

It really is quite simple surely?

Trade union(CWU) im in as negotiated fantastically on my behalf regards wages etc I currently work a 36 hour week for £26 500 basic a year it is very simple.

85

bristolron:

Carryfast:

stevieboy308:

commonrail:
what…exactly does standing up for yourself mean?

boss,i want more money.
you can`t have any
ok,i quit
see ya then.

and anyway…going by the number of people who openly mock another man for the rates he earns…it does`t sound like there is too much of a problem anyway.

sounds to me like you`re all raking it in :sunglasses:

on the same vein, i’ve asked in the past what is exactly meant by sticking together, i didn’t get an answer!

If you’d have been there when the unions brought down Heath you’d know what sticking together means.

Yes, and didn’t the conservatives get their own back and make sure it didn’t happen again or did you forget that bit!!!

I didn’t forget that bit at all.The only reason that Thatcher didn’t go the same way as Heath was because by then Thatcher had already decimated union membership by way of a planned rundown in British industry causing mass unemployment,while the union movement had already lost it’s unity and the Tory propaganda machine had already divided the working class.To the point where the call for the general strike in support of the miners,which is what it would have taken,wouldn’t have been answered by what remained of the rank and file of the TUC as a whole.

We’ve now got the economic figures and falling living standards and weak unions to prove how good the tory dream really was.

86

manic-merc:
So Unite ride to the rescue at Grangemouth because that nasty unfeeling multinational company wants to close a place that is losing £10 million a month, Unite have offered concessions with pay cuts and reduced pension contributions and are stunned that the company will probably still close the site, but ‘Unite now accepts concessions’!

Lets get this straight, ‘intransigence’ by the Union led them to this situation, the ‘wages and pensions are the envy of the area’ and lo and behold the Unite convenor is the ‘controversial’ member who was embroiled in the vote and labour candidate fiasco.

Unite are a total shambles, ‘run’ by clueless egotistic wannabes who have no concept of reality and what a working man needs or has to put up with. No doubt the union made their usual spurious claims and false promises and it will be everyone else’s fault.

Keep up the good work Len, as f*** ups go you are legendary!

Well this comment demonstrates the ignorance of those who are too lazy to think for themselves…of which there are far too many. :cry:

87

A couple of good positive reactions there where a union did some good, unfortunately not Unite or its previous guise the TGWU.

I believe workers and unions can and should work together for the greater good.

include companies too and we are getting somewhere, that’s the catch isn’t it? WORK TOGETHER.

Unite officials have now been accused of bullying directors at the Grangemouth refinery, that is not working together is it? No one likes a bully. I have witnessed their bullying tactics myself, it goes on a lot more than you’d think. I was once given a Unite document about ways of finding out names and details of who works for your company and then using a system supplied by them to rate them as targets, sympathisers and anti union. all very underhand and nasty imo.

When I have spoken with my rep and area chair and expressed my concerns and embarrassment about things being done by the union in my name, all I have gotten back is bs rhetoric, lame excuses and conspiracy theories about the tory press!

Our parents had screaming Lord Sutch to offer light relief occasionally from the grind of politics, we get Len and Unite the union! Maybe that’s it, Len is actually a socialist hating eccentric, who’s whole plan is to destroy Unite from within…

Now there’s a conspiracy theory!

88

This is just shocking, shocking! Thank god I don’t pay subs, at least they didn’t use my money for this! :blush: :frowning: :smiling_imp:

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-2 … age003.png

a picture says a thousand words…

I saw something on TV a few months ago that bears a striking resemblance to this, it was about the ■■■■ party in the 30’s! No need to worry though if Unite got guns, all they’d do is shoot their own feet off!

How on earth could this be justified, it’s business that these scum have made personal! :imp:

89

The link’s not working fella

90

try this
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-24758166

91

manic-merc:
A couple of good positive reactions there where a union did some good, unfortunately not Unite or its previous guise the TGWU.

I believe workers and unions can and should work together for the greater good.

include companies too and we are getting somewhere, that’s the catch isn’t it? WORK TOGETHER.

Unite officials have now been accused of bullying directors at the Grangemouth refinery, that is not working together is it? No one likes a bully. I have witnessed their bullying tactics myself, it goes on a lot more than you’d think. I was once given a Unite document about ways of finding out names and details of who works for your company and then using a system supplied by them to rate them as targets, sympathisers and anti union. all very underhand and nasty imo.

When I have spoken with my rep and area chair and expressed my concerns and embarrassment about things being done by the union in my name, all I have gotten back is bs rhetoric, lame excuses and conspiracy theories about the tory press!

Our parents had screaming Lord Sutch to offer light relief occasionally from the grind of politics, we get Len and Unite the union! Maybe that’s it, Len is actually a socialist hating eccentric, who’s whole plan is to destroy Unite from within…

Now there’s a conspiracy theory!

manic-merc:
try this
bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-24758166

Very late in the day with this one are the BBC the initial story was covered by the Daily Mail we all know what their stand point is on the issue of trade unions photograph can be anything form bullying to a protest from flag wavers with a blown up shark depends on which side you take.

Manic-merc your arguments against the union are riddled with the right wing historical perspective and also very contradictive with very little substance in your stand point.

You say in your message 1.42pm 1st November that you said you spoke with your union rep and where embarrassed that things where done by the union in your name and then at 14.11 1st November surprisingly tell us thank god you don’t pay subs
Are you or are you not a member of a trade union?

manic-merc:
This is just shocking, shocking! Thank god I don’t pay subs, at least they didn’t use my money for this! :blush: :frowning: :smiling_imp:

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-2 … age003.png

a picture says a thousand words…

I saw something on TV a few months ago that bears a striking resemblance to this, it was about the ■■■■ party in the 30’s! No need to worry though if Unite got guns, all they’d do is shoot their own feet off!

How on earth could this be justified, it’s business that these scum have made personal! :imp:

It comes across to me and probably to many others that you seem to have some personal issue with the unite union your not one of these who as had an issue in the workplace which as not come out in your favour so you will blame the union.

Some of your messages now are becoming of very embarrassing to you.

What is this little issue which is really eating away at you you can share on here we are all friends.

Anywhere don’t need to add anymore to this topic thread I have had my piece I will leave you to it clearly the trade union movement is something that is very personal to your heart and you will probably have much more to say historically politically with regards the union movement either on here or starting up a new thread.

92

Of course i’m not a member of Unite, are you mad?

But I do go to the branch meetings and speak to the rep, no one has ever checked my membership. They don’t seem to care. The stuff I listen too is amazing, in a public forum and with no checks on who might be there. They name individuals who they want to target, just because they prevent them from getting a foothold in a company or area. To my mind this is very radical and disturbing.

Manic-merc your arguments against the union are riddled with the right wing historical perspective and also very contradictive with very little substance in your stand point.

The union have admitted going to these peoples houses and doing this

Are you or are you not a member of a trade union?

as I said, am I hell, I can tell you are though, you must be very proud. I think there is plenty of substance due to the history of this union and others.

I despise this union, what it stands for and the mindless mugs who are part of it and spend their money supporting this shower.

I would be amazed if a single decent working person could claim that they would be proud to be a Unite member at the moment? It seems okay for them to ‘protest’ at the home of a company director but they are the first ones to cry foul if one of their members is treated with anything other than kid gloves.

You need to wake up on what this shower are up to, in your name, its scary. They hide behind the law and use loose interpretations to defend their actions, but still they produce no results. One, give me one instance where Unite have achieved something positive, how hard could that be?

As for being contradictory, this is a Unite stock trait! I will continue to question Unite at every turn and continue to embarrass them, even though they do it well themselves there is nothing like a helping hand.

I have the material, written and recorded along with the names and positions of a lot of these clowns, but I am just a working man and have no access to protection from their thugs (and they do exist trust me), I would love to put what I have onto a public forum however I would suffer for it. One thing I have learnt, and Grangemouth proves this, Unite are vindictive and personal very personal. Business is just that, business…

So to sum up, viking35dp, I think unions can be great, the fundamental idea of them is great, if they genuinely want to help people, register as a charity and help people, do not get involved in politics, do not get caught doing dodgy deals with political candidates / vote rigging / intimidation etc, be brave and take on every employer with tribunal issues not just the ones they have a chance of winning / be transparent and represent your members as they deserve to be treated - honestly - fairly - openly - democratically - listen to the members not dictate to them.

Get those things right and they have a chance, the world has changed, ffs even the Labour party changed so it became electable. Unite are a dinosaur and we all know what happened to them… I only deal in facts, not conjecture, hearsay or rumour

93

manic-merc:
Of course i’m not a member of Unite, are you mad?
… if they genuinely want to help people, register as a charity and help people, do not get involved in politics, do not get caught doing dodgy deals with political candidates / vote rigging / intimidation etc, be brave and take on every employer with tribunal issues not just the ones they have a chance of winning / be transparent and represent your members as they deserve to be treated - honestly - fairly - openly - democratically - listen to the members not dictate to them.

The sheer ignorance of this statement defies belief.

Also you ask all concerned to Be brave", when you with all this supposed damning info. are petrified to “Practice what you preach”! FFS.

94

I think the sheer ignorance of what they are doing defies belief, as even more skeletons come out of the closet :smiley:

95

Solly:

manic-merc:
Of course i’m not a member of Unite, are you mad?
… if they genuinely want to help people, register as a charity and help people, do not get involved in politics, do not get caught doing dodgy deals with political candidates / vote rigging / intimidation etc, be brave and take on every employer with tribunal issues not just the ones they have a chance of winning / be transparent and represent your members as they deserve to be treated - honestly - fairly - openly - democratically - listen to the members not dictate to them.

The sheer ignorance of this statement defies belief.

Also you ask all concerned to Be brave", when you with all this supposed damning info. are petrified to “Practice what you preach”! FFS.

Firstly it’s obvious that the tribunal answer to settling disputes is now where the CBI want it.IE worthless and one sided from the point of view of the workers.Which ( would have been ) a good thing in that unions ( could have ) got back to doing what they are there for in using their industrial muscle to settle disputes,instead of relying on sorting issues on the employers’ turf in the employers’ favour as things stand now that the employers have got the tribunal approach where they want it.

The fact is being ‘brave’ went out the window with the defeat of the miners on the basis of exactly the type of disloyal disunited approach being called for by those like manic-merc.It’s equally obvious that the unions are still making the mistake of thinking that getting involved with politics and putting people in at government level will help their cause when it’s obvious throghout history that idea won’t work.The fact is the government of whatever type will always be on the side of the CBI and the CBI will always call the shots in government policy not the workers.The job of the unions is in knowing that and not fooling themselves into thinking that they can influence government/CBI policy.

As things stand now the union movement as a whole,with a few exceptions,is probably a spent force and a defeated rabble that’s turning against each other helped by the type of bs of those like manic-merc at rank and file level and an out of touch leadership that still thinks the socialist cause and fighting their corner at government level is the way to solve all the issues.When history shows that it’s only effective strike action based on solid unity at shop floor level that works,regardless of which CBI controlled government is in power.

96

Carryfast:
"…and an out of touch leadership that still thinks the **socialist cause and fighting their corner at government level is the way to solve all the issues.**When history shows that it’s only effective strike action based on solid unity at shop floor level that works,regardless of which CBI controlled government is in power."

Well although much of what you say is correct, the “Socialist cause” is alive and kicking, but not for the majority of the population. It has thrived for the last 30yrs for the "Rich and influential individuals and “Corporations” and employers, and continues to thrive through their respective “Union” the CBI and other employer Unions administered at “Government level”…witness what happened after the “Financial crash”.
Plenty acts of “Socialism” introduced… for them, eh? thro’ the financial “Bail-out” of those “To big to fail”, at our expense, not theirs.
All achieved thro’ the employers, bankers, financiers collective “Union” the CBI, etc!
If their “Unions”…CBI… can instruct “Governments” on what they want, to protect them financially why can’t the “Workers” and their representatives, after all “Governments” are supposed to represent the wishes of the majority population as a whole, not the privileged few.

Few of the “Worker-Union” bashers are aware of this, or would even accept it.

ps…It has been reported. The Grangemouth company Ineos, has avoided paying a penny in tax for four years.
“Socialism” in disguise?

97

Solly:

Carryfast:
"…and an out of touch leadership that still thinks the **socialist cause and fighting their corner at government level is the way to solve all the issues.**When history shows that it’s only effective strike action based on solid unity at shop floor level that works,regardless of which CBI controlled government is in power."

Well although much of what you say is correct, the “Socialist cause” is alive and kicking, but not for the majority of the population. It has thrived for the last 30yrs for the "Rich and influential individuals and “Corporations” and employers, and continues to thrive through their respective “Union” the CBI and other employer Unions administered at “Government level”…witness what happened after the “Financial crash”.
Plenty acts of “Socialism” introduced… for them, eh? thro’ the financial “Bail-out” of those “To big to fail”, at our expense, not theirs.
All achieved thro’ the employers, bankers, financiers collective “Union” the CBI, etc!
If their “Unions”…CBI… can instruct “Governments” on what they want, to protect them financially why can’t the “Workers” and their representatives, after all “Governments” are supposed to represent the wishes of the majority population as a whole, not the privileged few.

Few of the “Worker-Union” bashers are aware of this, or would even accept it.

ps…It has been reported. The Grangemouth company Ineos, has avoided paying a penny in tax for four years.
“Socialism” in disguise?

That’s exactly the point in that socialism and communism is actually something that is usually more in favour of the CBI controlled status quo than it will ever be in improving the living standards of the working class.IE the workers and their union leaders have allowed themselves to be fooled by the socialist bs of the NHS,which is just a rationed third rate medical service,in order to keep wage costs down which would otherwise be needed to pay the true cost of medical care.The same applies in the form of the so called ‘social security’ system which,contrary to doing what it’s supposed to do,in being an income protection scheme,in the case of unemployment,sickness,or retirement,is actually just a rationed tax raising scam for the government on one side and a wage control rip off,in the case of keeping wage costs below those required for decent cover,on the employers side.

You can then add to that the bs idea of welcoming immigration in the so called ‘war against racism’ which is another cornerstone of the socialist cause.When it’s actually the CBI who have the most to gain by it and who are the biggest supporters of immigration to distort the labour market by oversupply.Or they export jobs to Communist countries like China to take advantage of the low wage economies which such bs politics creates.Then the CBI has the nerve to twist all that around to make it look like it’s the victim of a socialist driven plot by the unions.When the fact is the unions have just been too stupid to undertsand the whole scam and have lost more by following that bs idea than they could ever have gained by it.

IE it’s the CBI who are the biggest supporters of socialism and who want a government run on socialist/communist lines with a weak exploited subservient workforce to match.

Unlike the strong unionised workforce and capitalist government of 1960’s America in which both sides were doing their job within a capitalist system although even in that case those unions never used the strength they had by bringing the government to it’s knees whenever that government did anything that wasn’t in the interests of the American working class.The result being,just like here,a stronger richer Chinese Communist Party and a country full of immigrant labour and a poorer,weaker,American working class.