Unions ? A trilogy

Firstly, I should point out that although my father, a printer by trade, was a strong trade unionist I was neither very pro nor very anti trade unions.

Story 1:
When driving for Cadwalladers, if I came into the UK with a load for eastern England, I would often be told to go to Ross Foods in East Anglia and take a load up to the northwest which would put me into a better position to reload for the continent again.

On one occasion whilst backed up to the loading bay, an employee asked to see my union card. I showed him my ‘Les Routiers’ membership card but as he hadn’t seen one before he took it away and when he came back he said they didn’t accept this card. He said that he wanted to see that I was a member of the TGWU. I said that I’m sorry that I’m in the union that I wanted to be in and not the union you want me to be in.

People have said in the past that Les Routier was more of a club than a union…I don’t know, what do you think? Anyway, I was told that they wouldn’t load me and to pull away from the loading bay. I then phoned the office to tell them what had happened. One of the transport managers, Les (a.k.a possibilities) suggested that I get to the nearest TGWU office and join. I asked him who would be paying the dues. He said that I would be and it would be in my interests to join anyway. I told him that I failed to see that. He said that it is for my benefit. I disagreed and said that it was not my lorry but Cadwallader’s and to my way of thinking it would benefit Cadwalladers not me and that I objected to management trying to coerce me into joining a trade union.

It ended up with me being loaded somewhere else. Each time I would tip in the s.e. of England and told to go to Ross Foods…“oh! we can’t send you there, I wish you would join the union”. I always said that I’m not refusing to join but I am refusing to pay the dues!

Story 2:
When I was driving for Ridgeway Int. I took a load to Vickers at Barrow-in-Furness. I can’t remember what the actual load was but remember that it was in a 40 ft container and it was one piece of kit. The guys at Vickers said that it would be a problem to unload it. I said that it had gone in through the doors at the back and that was the only way it could come out. I suggested that they drag it out so far using forklift trucks and then to lift it up using their overhead crane.

It seemed that everything had to be booked so they booked the crane and they booked the forklift trucks. The load was chocked inside the container and I said that I’d get my hammer and knock the chocks out. “You can’t do that, driver. That’s a job for the carpenters. If you attempted to do it, we could have the workforce downing tools”. So they had to book the carpenters who happened to be on another job and yes, you’ve guessed it, by the time the carpenters arrived the forklifts and overhead crane had disappeared…booked on other jobs!! I said that the way you lot perform here, it’s a wonder anything gets done. “We’ve got to protect our jobs” was the reply. What was a half hour job…one hour max. to unload the container took nearly all day!

Story 3:
When I lived in Sweden I got a job with a bloke who had this one truck. It was the typical Swedish big rig…rigid with a 40 ft drawbar trailer. What was unusual was it was a DAF 2800. something one rarely saw in the land of Scanias and Volvos. The job entailed driving from Stockholm up into the arctic circle and back twice a week. A round trip of about 2,400 kms twice a week (i.e. a total of 3,000 miles)and it was winter time so most of the journey I was driving on snow and ice.

The truck was already loaded and I set off on the sunday afternoon. He told me to drop off about 25 lightweight boxes for a firm on route and although the firm would be closed as it was sunday, to climb over the low wall and put them under the canopy of the loading bay. Don’t worry about getting a signature. Bloomin’ game that was, getting them off from the top of the main load, over the wall and to the canopy and it was snowing! Anyway, I did that and continued on my journey getting a few hours kip in the early hours of monday morning. My second drop were some drums to an iron ore mine up in the arctic circle. The road up to the mine was a fairly steep hill and I couldn’t get up it on the ice. Eventually a bloody great machine with a bucket on the front, wheels all chained up came down and towed me up the hill as though it was a dinky toy he was pulling up. By the time I got to my final drop at Malmberget they had closed for the day so I had to wait until tueday morning to unload (full load of coca-cola). I reloaded with empty pallets at the same place and headed back south.

I got back to Stockholm about midday wednesday, knackered. The owner was moaning about me being late as I was supposed to be setting off wednesday afternoon having tipped and reloaded for my second trip north so that I would be back in Stockholm by friday evening and he could then tip and reload for me to be ready to set off again on the sunday afternoon of the new week. I told him to stick his job!!

I didn’t get paid and my missus said that I should contact the union. I should add here that nearly all workers in Sweden are in some sort of trade union and I was no exception. They asked for my tachograph cards. I was at first reluctant to show them as I had not had enough hours rest showing on them but they weren’t concerned about that, they just wanted to calculate how many hour’s driving I had done so they could work out the number of hours I should be paid at the set union rate.

They contacted the owner and as he refused to pay me the amount they calculated he owed me, they blacklisted him at the various firms he got his loads from. I eventually got a postal order from him for the full amount but that didn’t satisfy the union. They insisted that payment had to be made via them so that they knew everything was in order before they lifted the ban on him.

So there you have it. Two somewhat negative stories about unions and one positive story. I hope the stories are of some interest to you guys and feel free to comment especially if you happen to take a different viewpoint to my way of thinking.

The UK unions are not intersted in road haulage unless you work for an own account large fleet or a fuel company, Brother Tony Woodley couldnt tell you what weights we run at nevermind anything about tachos.

I’m sure I’ve related these 2 similar short tales before on here, but…

Jack Duckworth once told me that he was doing stillages of spare parts for somebody into Ford’s in Halewood and went in to tip one evening - the forkie said he’d have to wait until after break so Jack asked politely whether he could do him before as he wanted to get home and finish some decorating at home. The forkie disappeared and along comes a foreman, telling Jack that as he was intending to do a painter & decorator out of work, that they wouldn’t be tipping him and please leave drive’ :open_mouth:

About 10 years ago I was moving a project of about 20 loads of furnace equipment from the UK to a GM plant in upstate New York, which arrived around 18th December, in time for it to be installed over the Xmas shutdown, everything arrived on time, perfect condition etc :wink: We came to start offloading and had to put most of it in through a seldom used large roller shutter door, on which the kick-plate had got bent and jammed the door… it was snowing a blizzard and one of the GM blokes said he’d send for the Millwright’s Department to fix it, but 20 minutes later I got hacked off and ‘fixed’ it myself and opened the door to crack on :grimacing: you would have thought i’d poleaxed some bugger, the might of UAW Local 686 came to pass but we were then too busy getting on with the job to care much :unamused:

My argument with them is that they are so quick to shout about protectionism, but they didn’t want to protect lorry drivers jobs, in the 70’s or nowadays.

From the Union reps and cardholding members on the docks asking drivers for cards, they were involved in promoting trade but then prevented hauliers from trading. There were many other trades involved with the unions but I was prevented from collecting a lift tank from Hull docks by another driver who worked for Ancliff. What right another driver from another company had to think he could stop me plying my trade as a driver. I politely told him to [zb] off and drove around him but I was quite willing to drive over him and continued to do so throughout my career.

United Carriers was no better with the shop steward trying to use the drivers in his petty squabbles with managers because he was a lazy [zb]

NUR - No Use Rushing

NCB - No [zb] Bothered

When I was offered the job of TM at a Birmingham firm the drivers were out on strike for an increase in the night out allowance. This had been organized by the infamous Alan Law and the drivers had already lost in wages more than the increase would add up to in a year.

A while later I did a deal with a supplier to get some free nail guns so the packers wouldn’t have to nail up the cases by hand. When they were installed, the Union Rep informed me that they weren’t going to use them unless they were paid extra. Of course I told them politely that they could just carry on hammering, and it was nearly six months before they finally gave in.

This factory paid its workers quite low wages yet we had no shortage of applicants. I asked the lads one day how many had worked at Longbridge and why they had left. Eight out of the twelve had worked there and they all agreed that it was the constant aggravation and conflict between Unions and Management that made them want a change.

It is my opinion that Union Reps are usually the guy who is too dozy to see what a rotten job it is. If they are political then they cared nothing about their members and only about their own ambition and petty power.

IMHO Trades Unions should be consigned to the dustbin of history.

its funny this thread came when it did, i cancelled my direct debit yesterday to a union because after being pro union all my working career i had a spot of trouble with a legality with my ex company and you really no the people who actaully ran the office new less than me and every qustion i asked couldnt get answered, unions are only good for offering a solictor when you go to tribunal other than that its free money for them and they have no power at all, the last 30 years prove that.

its a shame because in theory it was a good idea and worked well many years ago but its dog eat dog and management know this. and with so many unemployment every decision you make has to be carefully thought out, talk about our land becoming repressed and controlled its happening together were strong but divided we are!!

Cannot fault my union - URTU - always been helpful to me on personal issues.

I do not expect any union to be good at national issues as their teeth were pulled many years ago

At one time unions had power and influence. So what did they achieve for the working man - nothing that’s what.

Workers prosper when they have skills that are in short supply, and there are employers who can make profits from their work. Without profitable businesses there will be no jobs and without workers there will be no profitable businesses; so it would benefit us all to get rid of this stupid wasteful them-and-us system and to work together to make all our lives better.

Santa:
At one time unions had power and influence. So what did they achieve for the working man - nothing that’s what.

Workers prosper when they have skills that are in short supply, and there are employers who can make profits from their work. Without profitable businesses there will be no jobs and without workers there will be no profitable businesses; so it would benefit us all to get rid of this stupid wasteful them-and-us system and to work together to make all our lives better.

How are you going to do that when the employers just transfer the jobs to the lowest wage country they can find.But in the new utopia it’s going to be a college educated knowledge (office worker) based economy with a country full of graduates all going for the same job where supply will outweigh demand for their services and Britain becomes a banana republic without any bananas. :laughing:

Carryfast:

Santa:
At one time unions had power and influence. So what did they achieve for the working man - nothing that’s what.

Workers prosper when they have skills that are in short supply, and there are employers who can make profits from their work. Without profitable businesses there will be no jobs and without workers there will be no profitable businesses; so it would benefit us all to get rid of this stupid wasteful them-and-us system and to work together to make all our lives better.

How are you going to do that when the employers just transfer the jobs to the lowest wage country they can find.But in the new utopia it’s going to be a college educated knowledge (office worker) based economy with a country full of graduates all going for the same job where supply will outweigh demand for their services and Britain becomes a banana republic without any bananas. :laughing:

And where was your union when the employers started to transfer these jobs, they were on a membership paid Jolly to said countries to represent those new workers.

You can’t knock unions for trying to protect their members. They even have more insight than our own government. When we opened our Labour market to Poland and our government estimated around 10,000 Poles would come here to work, most of the Unions sent posses over to recruit !!

In my experience local union officals are only interested in getting what they want and have no interest in members problems.

When I retired in 2005 I started to receive my pension. After seven weeks I was told that it had been wrongly calculated and that it would be reduced by 22%.

I contacted the union that I had been a member of for over 18 years and they went through the first stage of the appeal process. When this failed, their attitude was accept what you have got and be grateful.

I then went through the second stage myself and got my full pension reinstated.

I can share with you my views on Unions from Poland.

  1. Żerań FSO car factory vs Škoda Mlada Boleslav.

Żerań:
After 1989 changes they entered the new age with this:

and this:

Off course it was 1990s and when Poland became open for the Western market, no-one was any longer interested in driving a car from 1960s.

Soon after the economical transition GM became interested to buy that factory as a future place to make Opel / Vauxhall Astra. But the conditions were that they will rid off all people who are not nedeed. Off course Unions went mad “We will not allow Germans to sack Polish workers” blah blah blah and all went down. Then there were other offerents interested in buying the factory, but it was always the same problems: Union did not agreed for redundancies… They had to put down offers from Fiat, Volkswagen, Peugot, Rover even…

Then when the factory was at the edge of banktrupcy, Daewoo came and promised them a pears on the willow (i am not sure if you have this expression in English - it’s mean that they promised them things with every village idiot knows that are impossible) and the goverment happily sold the factory to the Koreans, happy that they rid off the problem. Then it was a few good years, they were making Lanos, Nexia, Espero, Nubira, Leganza, Matiz and all that stuff. But soon Daewoo, who was doing similar things in Korea, went into troubles.

The factory was looking for a new buyer but off course Fiat has his factory in Tychy already, GM build one from scratch in Gliwice, Volkswagen in PoznaÅ„ and Peugot after some trials in Nysa just pulled out from Poland and was no longer interested. As a result Goverment found a buyer at least, and it’s a AvtoZAZ company from Ukraine, well known for such a great cars like ZAZ-968 Zaporozhets

and Таврія (Tavria)

Off course none of these cars will fulfill the requirements to be sold in Europe, so the administrators begged Daewoo allow continuation of production. They got Lanos and Matiz

(check the badge, it’s FSO Matiz, not Daewoo or Chevrolet). It’s only allowed to be sold in Poland and it’s the pre-face lifting version… The license will be end soon, and no-one knows the future of the factory.

Compare that to Å koda’s factory in Mlada Boleslav… Firstly, they had their own, quite modern construction Favorit. Then they agreed for all Volkswagen’s conditions and over half of the crew was made redundant at the very beginning. Soon few years after Volkswagen bought it there was the same number of people working in the factory and couple of years later they even opened assembling plant in Poland (Felicias, than some Fabias were made there).

If you compare this two stories you have this clear: The unions killed the biggest Polish car manufacturer…

And not only the biggest: there was the same story with Star lorry manufacturer, with Jelcz bus and lorry manufacturer, with Nysa Van factory and Lublin Van Factory (this time not only unions are to blame: factory was bought by LDV to get their hands of the prototypes, then they sold the factory keeping the rights to it, LDV Maxus was supposed to be new Lublin van :slight_smile: )

I dare to tell that this were the Unions to kill that. We have the same with Coal mining industry, with a State Railways… State Railways is a good example: Nothing is possible there, tracks are rubbish, trains are rare, dirty, slow, and always overcrowded and late etc, etc. Last year the European Union forced the goverment to open the rail transport market for the competitors and suddenly there is plenty local train companies providing reliable service even in places, where no train was seen from 1989… When I had my work placement on the Railways, I was in the “Mechanized Unit” of the railroad maintentance. The “mechainisation” was that 40 guys was doing everything with their hands like in 1800’s. I asked the guy why, and this is what he explained to me:

“I can do all that job you are supervising with 5 guys and this machine you can see parked on the track behind my office. And that would take me 4 days, not 3 weeks. But I have 40 workers and I can’t sack them because of the unions. Therefore I have to pay them and I have no money to run that machine, and anyway, I can’t pay them for nothing so I have to give them something to do. And becouse my budget is limited and all goes to the salaries, I can’t even service my machines. Therefore when I finally get rid of all that workers I don’t need, the machines will be a scrap already and I will have to hire them again”. When he was saying that, there were about 5 years old trees groving on the track between the machines…

So that’s my view on unions from Poland. I see the unions here seem to have a little bit more of common sense, but I am still not convicted that there is some use of them…

Sounds familar, we had British Leyland, British Coal, docks and other long forgotten industries.

waddy640:
Sounds familar, we had British Leyland, British Coal, docks and other long forgotten industries.

Exactly my thoughts when I read the brilliant post from Orys :open_mouth:

waddy640:
Sounds familar, we had British Leyland, British Coal, docks and other long forgotten industries.

then we got maggy thatcher.

limeyphil:

waddy640:
Sounds familar, we had British Leyland, British Coal, docks and other long forgotten industries.

then we got maggy thatcher.

I think Red Robbo, BMC, BL or BMH were already a flaming basket case when the blessed Margaret came to the fore in 1979

A government panic measure in 1977 appointed Michael Edwardes, the government then being Labour

After Margaret began to lose some political support, she went to war in the Falklands, and gained her popularity back. Tony Blair copied her ideas in Iraq and it all went ■■■■ up for him…and still is.

If the best thing we had to offer was an Allegro, super vroom or not, we were doomed already :stuck_out_tongue:

As I recall the car side of BL was in a far worse state than the truck and bus bit. Labour simply killed the whole lot off rather than getting rid of the decaying part.

I remember reading a books titled “The Leyland Bus” and “Beyond Reality”. When a group of bus operators met Leyland management during the seventies and complained that they could not get new buses because of all the industrial action, the reply was “Where else will you get them from?”.

We all know that answer to that, It was the arrogant attitude of both management and workers that created the downfall. Assisted by a gutless Labour government.

Brilliant post Orys,

Now that really put’s things into perspective, although most of us over 40 will remember the catastrophic effect unions had on British Industry, they thought they had a never ending stream of government subsidies & tried to hold the companies to ransom. a short sighted philosophy as it turns out, just as it proved in Poland.

The union mentality is that everyone is owed a living by the state, although none of them actually want to earn it :open_mouth:

The unions are very powerful in the USA, they have complete control of the car manufacturing industry, well they did, now almost everything has been moved to non union states or Mexico, Detroit, once one of the richest cities in the world, is now a shanty town, primarily due to the Union of Autoworkers.

I don’t have much experience of them, I started driving after they’d closed down most of British Industry, but I once loaded steel racking from a union plant in Liege, a simple process, strip the tilt down, back in the shed & an overhead crane lifts the stuff in the back, add a union into the mix & it started getting complicated, instead of one bloke slinging the bundles (with my help) & operating the crane, there were two blokes putting the slings on & two more on the trailer taking them off, a crane operator on the floor & another on the back of the trailer, six men doing one man’s work, then take into account the amount of tea breaks they took & a lunch break, instead of it taking an hour to load, it took them their whole shift to load me. When I went to collect my paperwork it was a similar situation, one person made out the CMR & invoices, another photocopied it all, eight people doing two people’s work & taking five times longer to do it, that’s your unions for you :unamused:

Today, Unite have announced a strike at British airways over Christmas.

This is the mentality of people, selfish, uncaring individuals.

Redundancies, pay cuts or no pay rises affect many people but they carry on. Most of us cannot afford to go on strike even if we wanted to.

Why do BA staff think they are a special case? Because they are obviously overpaid.