I often wonder why companies dont make wagons with the underfloor engine? It seems to me it would be a great way to maximise space in the cab. There have been makes and models over the years that have been underfloor, MAN did a few if I aint mistaken. Anybody got any thoughts or info on this?
I often wonder the same thing about fridges
I’ve seen a few with the engine mounted under the chassis but not many.
on the units I would have thought the engines would stick up too above the chassis rails to give a high roof cab (within the eu bridge hight limits) so is not worth investing the R & D money in
I’ll have to have a look round Sean, but I seem to remember I saw some Sentinels when they switched to diesel power that were underfloor, no, most of the old stuff had real low cabs on them. But you might have a point M8, it might be something just like that. I dont know, but I would have thought that they were easier to drop out ect, need a fitter for that info!
duetz (or what ever the spelling is) had a underfloor engine in fact it used to be on rails at the side so you could drag it out bit like a vw engine…well away from the cab in fact it was at the side
I think thats where sentinel put their engine, not underneath the cab. That sounds like a good idea Odds, to be able to pull the motor out from the side.
I often wonder the same thing about fridges
I’ve seen a few with the engine mounted under the chassis but not many.
Probably the biggest company with this set up on trailers is Morrisons.All their fridge trailers have the motor mounted behind the side rails,but I can’t remember which side.
Ken.
Bussing was another company that had an underfloor motor (think that company was taken over by MAN later on).
The problem with building a truck with an underfloor motor is that the engine would have to be of a different design to what is currently used, either a horizontally opposed motor (think VW/Porsche) or a regular in-line adapted to run on its side (meaning all the oil scavenging pipes, sump etc would need modifying). Sounds like a great idea in principal but in these days when a single motor design is used for a load of different applications i.e truck, marine, generators, it probably wouldn’t be economically viable.
As for underslung fridges, we had them on Sainsburys at Hoddy and Buntingford. Much quieter, but the fitters said they were less good as they get constantly covered in road dirt and usually wear out quicker than a normal bulkhead mounted fridge. Shame, as it’s much easier sleeping in front of one of those than sleeping in front of a rattly old Thunderbird (at least until you get used to it 
)
Yeah, I reckon economics paly a big part Craig! It;'s really from the engineering point of veiw im interested in, it just seems like a good idea to me. I am interested to hear Bussing went to MAN, as thats likely where they got the expertise for underfloor from then?
Forgive my total ignorance on this subject but every truck i have ever driven has the engine under the floor.
Can someone explain what you are talking about please?, and if opossible point me in the direction of pictures of what you are talking about?>?.
Whats generally meant by underfloor Jammy is when the engine is slung on its side, similar to how the coach engine is fitted. when you look inside a coach and see how low the driving position is, you get an idea to the hieght savings to be had. I seem to remember the Sentinel company in Shrewsbury did some horizontal mounted underfloor diesels, but im buggered if i can find anything about it on the net. Then again, I aint the greatest for finding stuff, hence the thread!
Nice pic Craig, is the motor located behind that panel?
Yeah, it looks that way Mal. Dunno what size or type of engine it is though.
(That pic isn’t one of mine, Len Rogers has hundreds of great pics with a bit of interesting text about each vehicle on his website. According to the site MAN bought Bussing in '71, so that would explain why they aren’t all that well known in the UK)
You were right about the Sentinel having an underfloor motor . I spent a few interesting hours last week in the company of Neil Matlock who literally wrote the book about Sentinels and has two of them. From what I recall they went through sometime in the mid 50’s. There’s not much on the web about them but perhaps someone (Vasco?) will have a pic of a Sentinel to post up here?
Im glad you can confirm that about the Sentinels Craig, I cant find much, and thought I might be a bit prematurely senile! 
Mounting fridges on the front bulkhead is purely to get air flow thru the cores…
I reckon the only reason you can fit fridges under the trailer now, is that they are efficient enuf to work with the reduced air flow they are bound to recieve down there…
As for ‘lower’ tractor engine’s… A V8 can give you a lower profile IF the manifold is designed with ‘low height’ in mind… A Boxer / Flat lump (like the scooby / 911 / Beetle) would be the ideal solution BUT a trucks engine had a very long stroke / throw (cuz it’s a diesel and has to produce BIG Torque) so it’s very unlikely that you would fit the engine between the chassis rails as it would be very wide, defeating the whole point of the exercise… !!!
Maybe one day when we have full drive-by-wire steering with a ‘steering’ servo on each wheel, you might fit one in…
I think… !!
Luv
Chrisie… 
Bussing were available in this country in 1969.They were tractors with 240bhp engines and 6spd ZF boxes. The cabs looked to be day or short sleepers and probably LHD but fundamentally were the same as pictured above. I’ll hazard a guess and say the engines were upright The importer/dealer was a TIR operator from Wath on Dearne called Brain Watt who actually operated day cabbed Big J 6 leggers into Europe, possibly Eastern. There was an article in TRUCK some years back about an operator from the Wakefield area who operated MAN units and I’m certain he mentioned that he had used Bussing before those. The only underslung ones I ever saw like the one in the picture were a couple of German registered drawbar outfits running without their drop-bodies, in Droylsden(Mcr) in 73.
MAN took over Bussing in 71 and that name disappeared soon after. All thats left of Bussing now is the dog in the middle of the MAN badge. MAN wanted to stop building underslung motors but got serious grief from German operators and in fact they were available till the late 80’s. I last saw an underslung when I parked alongside a MAN 6x2 wagon and drag outfit at Ossett in late 89.
Sentinel closed in 56. Their factory became the RR engine factory which I believe recently closed .The remaining Sentinel parts were taken to Warrington where a group of Hauliers formed a company called T V W -Transport Vehicles Warrington. They made around 100 wagons most being bought by the Hauliers themselves, till production ended in 61.They didnt fit Sentinel horizontal engines but one of the engines they did use was the Rootes “boxer” type two-stroke which had 6 pistons in 3 cylinders firing against each other.But that still sat above the chassis rails ,in a Commer at least.
There is, or was, a preserved Atkinson 4 wheeler in Stampers colours fitted with a horizontal Gardner engine. A panel at the front of the flat has to be removed to get at the engine,although that may only be for major maintenance.
Interesting info Boden. One of the hauliers in the TVW concern was S Jones (aldridge) The company I took my hgv with! They are not really in exisatnce any more having passed through a few hands, though the name just about exists and Im sure they still run a fleet but not the fleet they had in their glory days!
I never knew about that Atkinson, I wonder was it factory? or a one off?
The Rootes TS3 was, I believe, an opposed piston 2 stroke as opposed to the flat engines called “boxer” that have the cylinders opposed on the crankcase. I might be mistaken about this, there may well be boxers with common cyliders and opposed pistons. But the TS3 was definately of the 1 cylinder containing two opposing piston type, so 3 cylinders-6 pistons.
It was actually the rootes motor I was thinking about when I thought to post this thread, it seemed to me they had a good lightweight and compact design in the TS3, but didnt take it as far as they might have done. I’m wondering if it was the type of thing that came from Germany after WW2 like a lot of technology did, as I believe Junkers used opposed piston 2 stroke diesels in the Ju range.
Mal
There actually was TS4 built and under developement,it turned out about 200bhp but by that time Chrysler had control and killed it off.
You are right ,Junkers did develop these engines which were called Jumo and also a UK outfit called Doxford who built marine engines in this form.
I am certain that a some years ago a WW2 Bomber veteran told me that Junkers fittted diesel engines in some of their planes.
Thanks for that Boden, I am presuming the TS4 would be a 4 cylinder 8 piston design then? it is a shame Chrysler buried that, 200bhp in such a compact unit was pretty good no? Also, I am told they were economical.
I was surprised to learn the Jumo was a 2 stroke diesel too!
Have you heard of the Z engine by the way? It’s a two stroke diesel being developed right now in Finland; Here Im interested in 2 stroke diesels and often wonder if they’ll make a comeback in trucks. I think Detroit still do a lot of their V strokers.
Mal
The TS4 was just that ,4 and 8 and from what I can gather it was technically worth pursuing.Bear in mind though, that Chrysler had linked up with ■■■■■■■ to build the plant at Darlington to build those US style high reving 4 stroke V6 and V8’s which were fitted into Dodge K series so TS4 would not figure in any long term plans. As you may be aware they were not a success and were dropped to be replaced by a Perkins straight 6 or V8.
Bedford offered a Detroit V6 in their early TM’s and later that 300 bhp V8.They also fitted them into some KM units which may have been testing the market.
I did speak to a lad from Northumberland who operated a V6 in a 6 legger pulling a drawbar and he said it had been a lot of trouble,they were certainly known for being heavy on juice. I thought Detroit had changed to 4 stroke for road going use at least.
Krupp offered 2 stroke up to 7 (!!) cylinders and 310 bhp till around 63 when they made V6 4 stroke available licence built from ■■■■■■■ so I wonder could they be the same as the ones that Dodge tried?
I’ll hazard another guess and believe Foden stopped offering their 2 strokes of which I think there were two variants, around 70.I can well remember Picon concrete having some of these .There is an old 8 legger screaming its head off up a hill in a street scene in the film “Kes” and at least one tractor unit is on the preservation scene. Maybe that 12 spd box with the splitter lever on the instrument console was designed for the 2 stroke.
I’ve not heard of the Z engine but coming from that part of the world it will probably be a good’un.