robroy:
One good thing has come out of this lot…The news media is no longer full of ‘vaccinations., ‘mask wearing’ ‘social distancing’ ‘periods of isolation’’ …and all the rest of the Covid related dog [zb].
Are you sure about that 
Fears in Washington that Covid isolation has unbalanced Vladimir Putin
Is Putin suffering ‘delirium and confusion’ due to Long COVID?
Putin health fears: President ‘sent mad’ by Covid - warning to world
tachograph:
robroy:
One good thing has come out of this lot…The news media is no longer full of ‘vaccinations., ‘mask wearing’ ‘social distancing’ ‘periods of isolation’’ …and all the rest of the Covid related dog [zb].Are you sure about that
Fears in Washington that Covid isolation has unbalanced Vladimir Putin
Is Putin suffering ‘delirium and confusion’ due to Long COVID?
Putin health fears: President ‘sent mad’ by Covid - warning to world
NATOs new defence strategy if aiming guns at em across the Polish border doesn’t work then believing its own propaganda that they are all nutters will.
Let’s say as it stands the odds of Russian nuclear attack are 3/1 the odds of Boris and Biden forcing regime change there are around 500/1.Let alone the new regime then joining NATO.
tachograph:
robroy:
One good thing has come out of this lot…The news media is no longer full of ‘vaccinations., ‘mask wearing’ ‘social distancing’ ‘periods of isolation’’ …and all the rest of the Covid related dog [zb].Are you sure about that
Fears in Washington that Covid isolation has unbalanced Vladimir Putin
Is Putin suffering ‘delirium and confusion’ due to Long COVID?
Putin health fears: President ‘sent mad’ by Covid - warning to world
Oh God :
They’ve even managed to shoehorn it in to all this. 
…let it go ffs move on ,.I say.
They’ll be blaming Brexit for it all next.
robroy:
tachograph:
robroy:
One good thing has come out of this lot…The news media is no longer full of ‘vaccinations., ‘mask wearing’ ‘social distancing’ ‘periods of isolation’’ …and all the rest of the Covid related dog [zb].Are you sure about that
Fears in Washington that Covid isolation has unbalanced Vladimir Putin
Is Putin suffering ‘delirium and confusion’ due to Long COVID?
Putin health fears: President ‘sent mad’ by Covid - warning to world
[emoji38]
Oh God :
They’ve even managed to shoehorn it in to all this.
They’ll be blaming Brexit for it all next. [emoji38]
Didn’t you know Brexit was all about the Russians persuading UK to leave to weaken the EU?
Let’s face it - there were only 2 states in the EU of any military capacity. UK leaving hasn’t really altered anything.
But at least certain states who used the past as a convenient excuse have finally found their pockets.
Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk
My completely amateurish opinion is that Putin is probably regretting his decision now after the intelligence he’s received from his yes men is turning out to be wholly inaccurate. This obviously leaves him in a difficult position; his very machismo and perhaps his very political future will not him simply allow him to pack his toys away and return them to their barracks.
My reckoning is that he would gladly accept UN intervention in the hope that they can broker a deal that will allow him both to withdraw and also save face whilst still appearing to be the strong leader.
Monkey241:
But at least certain states who used the past as a convenient excuse have finally found their pockets.
Wir Komt Wir Komt.
Move the German Leopards up to the Russian border don’t forget to paint the key insignia to go with the Black crosses.
That’s guaranteed to show Russia that NATO means business and diffuse the situation and bring Russia to the table seeking terms.The past doesn’t matter.
the maoster:
My completely amateurish opinion is that Putin is probably regretting his decision now after the intelligence he’s received from his yes men is turning out to be wholly inaccurate.My reckoning is that he would gladly accept UN intervention in the hope that they can broker a deal that will allow him both to withdraw and also save face whilst still appearing to be the strong leader.
A nuclear superpower that has issues with NATO threatening it’s borders on a front stretching from the Baltic to the Black Sea.That’s clearly stated that a strategic nuclear first strike is on the table to make NATO move back.
Then we’ve got deluded experts who think that means he’s threatening to maybe drop a tactical nuke on Ukraine.Why would he do that not a strategic one on western Europe or us or possibly even US.Its obvious that’s more likely to be us then say to the US your move.
By definition the nuclear deterrent means strategic not tactical.
The modern generations haven’t got a clue.They are sleep walking us into a nuclear war here but worse one that’s on Russia’s terms.America won’t risk it’s homeland to an all out nuclear exchange if Russia decides to knock us out of the frame and that’s why Europe is now in this mess.
Do you reckon he’s come to the conclusion that he’s bitten off more than he can chew, and that he realises that he has seriously underestimated the actions and bravery of the Ukraine forces, and their last minute conscripts from the equally brave Ukraine civilian public.
I think (also from an amateurish pov) that he just expected to march in with little opposition, then use his ‘liberation from Naziism’ propaganda b/s to come across as the hero…(badly thought out btw as at least 2 of the Ukraine govt are reported to be of Jewish origin.)
All this b/s he’s spouting about NATO using threatening language,.and his veiled threat of using nuclear weapons could be a mixture of a smokescreen and damage limitation to save face and take the focus off his misjudgment.
When the unexpected amount of Russian troops arrive home in body bags to their families, .surely the Russisn populace will turn against him.
I think he’s received some extremely bad intel from his people prior to launching this escapade.
We in the west of course know all about faulty intel don’t we?
the maoster:
I think he’s received some extremely bad intel from his people prior to launching this escapade.We in the west of course know all about faulty intel don’t we?
Maybe his advisors are a load of nodding dog yes men,.who are afraid for their own safety if they disagree with him,.a bit like Hitler and his cronies in the closing months of WW2.
If all around him are telling him he is right,… then he thinks he’s right.
robroy:
Do you reckon he’s come to the conclusion that he’s bitten off more than he can chew, and that he realises that he has seriously underestimated the actions and bravery of the Ukraine forces, and their last minute conscripts from the equally brave Ukraine civilian public.I think (also from an amateurish pov) that he just expected to march in with little opposition, then use his ‘liberation from Naziism’ propaganda b/s to come across as the hero…(badly thought out btw as at least 2 of the Ukraine govt are reported to be of Jewish origin.)
All this b/s he’s spouting about NATO using threatening language,.and his veiled threat of using nuclear weapons could be a mixture of a smokescreen and damage limitation to save face and take the focus off his misjudgment.
When the unexpected amount of Russian troops arrive home in body bags to their families, .surely the Russisn populace will turn against him.
You’re betting ( our farm ) on some suicidally wide of the mark assumptions about what and who you’re dealing with
If Russia nukes anyone they won’t be stupid enough to drop one on Ukraine.
The reference to putting their nuke ‘deterrent’ at our equivalent of DEFCON 2 means their long range strategic nukes not dropping a tactical nuke in their own back yard.
He’s now qualified that with the reference to Liz big mouth Truss.So now we know the target.Thats not a veiled threat that’s all too clear.
As for this stunt it was obviously a deliberately restrained operation meant to give NATO a way out.Which it’s been stupid enough to ignore.
You’d best hope that I’m wrong but if I’m not luckily I live close enough to a ground zero for it to be quick and the US controls our launch codes not zb Truss because the US isn’t going to trade NYC and LA in retaliation for London.
While Putin stopped being in charge of events from the point of the order to move.He just signs the orders that his generals and Politburo give him to sign.
For someone who lived through the Cold War you should know better.
Effectively Putin is the equivalent of JFK but with less power than Curtis Le May had and Russia sees it as their Cuban missile crisis with Ukraine and Poland etc being the equivalent of Cuba.
Unfortunately Biden, Bozo let alone Truss combined haven’t got the intelligence of Kruschev.
Ironically Threads almost got it right but even Barrry Hine wouldn’t have been able to envisage this stupid scenario of us wanting to move NATO into Poland let alone into Ukraine.
To get an insight into the paranoia and absurdity that dictators live in and create watch the film ‘The Death of Stalin’ you think you are watching a well written black comedy except all events portrayed in the film are true Putin styles himself on Stalin so in all probabilty has a similar amount of frightened yes men around him.
Carryfast:
While Putin stopped being in charge of events from the point of the order to move.He just signs the orders that his generals and Politburo give him to sign.
What generals/ The ones that looked mortified during the pre-invasion ‘‘council’’ with him? His chief spy was nervous like a 13 year old on a first date. It’s clear they’re all playing a script.
youtube.com/watch?v=o9A-u8EoWcI
I think it’s him running things but he is surrounded by yes-men (because the others tend to lose their jobs/heads) but I also think him getting removed from power (very difficult and unlikely in any event) isn’t going to change things a lot.
It’s a long thread let’s just say the Russians perceive themselves as very vulnerable from the west (geographically and you can easily see why, but also - historically) and their doctrine for the last, I don’t know, 100 years, has been that the only way to survive is to expand west as much as possible even if that means buffer states
I’m certain Putin is convinced and has probably convinced a large part of his population that further NATO expansion represents an existential threat to Russia (he said on multiple occasions that Ukraine is a red line - as is the Caucasus btw hence his war on Georgia 2008) so he’s willing to go out guns blazing at the slightest hint of failure. I think he once said, ‘‘why do you need a world without Russia?’’
On nukes I’m afraid if he does push the button it’s going to be directed at an European country, probably the one that shoots its mouth the loudest (we have a clear leader in this race at the moment) to make an example of not joking and US is going to respond by a strongly worded resolution and an emergency UN meeting the next morning to condemn Russia’s actions aka they’ll do f-all
Sanctions may have pushed him into a corner as he was probably expecting some kind of back-up bail out from China but that didn’t happen for whatever reasons or maybe not yet. I’m surprised the EU/UK is jumping up and down like an agitated rabbit even when they don’t have squat to put up against him in terms of actual strength. We may have all the money but he has all the nukes
Worst case scenario would be if the Russians are very close to completing hypersonic missiles capable of carrying nukes which is pretty much game over for NATO. Then it’s a matter of time before they can mass produce enough of those (hard under sanctions but it’s the Russians) to acquire what’s called decapitation capabilities aka they could launch enough to wipe out USA/EU before any retaliation would be possible or at least that’s the theory
Meanwhile keep arguing about gender issues, diversity and H&S. No one has ever said ‘‘man wouldn’t it be great if a nice big ol’ war was to break out?’’ but history is essentially a list of human wars
Here’s the interview (for a Russian gov’t run TV) youtube.com/watch?v=OV-Hf6II_p4
Later he signed a decree allowing RUssia to use nukes pretty much as he sees fit
Carryfast:
For someone who lived in The Cold War you should know better
.
I’ve just been reprimanded by Carryfast. 
Tbf I did not say where I thought Putin intended (or not) to aim his missiles…but there you go.
ETS:
Carryfast:
While Putin stopped being in charge of events from the point of the order to move.He just signs the orders that his generals and Politburo give him to sign.What generals/ The ones that looked mortified during the pre-invasion ‘‘council’’ with him? His chief spy was nervous like a 13 year old on a first date. It’s clear they’re all playing a script.
youtube.com/watch?v=o9A-u8EoWcI
I think it’s him running things but he is surrounded by yes-men (because the others tend to lose their jobs/heads) but I also think him getting removed from power (very difficult and unlikely in any event) isn’t going to change things a lot.
It’s a long thread let’s just say the Russians perceive themselves as very vulnerable from the west (geographically and you can easily see why, but also - historically) and their doctrine for the last, I don’t know, 100 years, has been that the only way to survive is to expand west as much as possible even if that means buffer states
I’m certain Putin is convinced and has probably convinced a large part of his population that further NATO expansion represents an existential threat to Russia (he said on multiple occasions that Ukraine is a red line - as is the Caucasus btw hence his war on Georgia 2008) so he’s willing to go out guns blazing at the slightest hint of failure. I think he once said, ‘‘why do you need a world without Russia?’’
On nukes I’m afraid if he does push the button it’s going to be directed at an European country, probably the one that shoots its mouth the loudest (we have a clear leader in this race at the moment) to make an example of not joking and US is going to respond by a strongly worded resolution and an emergency UN meeting the next morning to condemn Russia’s actions aka they’ll do f-all
Sanctions may have pushed him into a corner as he was probably expecting some kind of back-up bail out from China but that didn’t happen for whatever reasons or maybe not yet. I’m surprised the EU/UK is jumping up and down like an agitated rabbit even when they don’t have squat to put up against him in terms of actual strength. We may have all the money but he has all the nukes
Worst case scenario would be if the Russians are very close to completing hypersonic missiles capable of carrying nukes which is pretty much game over for NATO. Then it’s a matter of time before they can mass produce enough of those (hard under sanctions but it’s the Russians) to acquire what’s called decapitation capabilities aka they could launch enough to wipe out USA/EU before any retaliation would be possible or at least that’s the theory
Meanwhile keep arguing about gender issues, diversity and H&S. No one has ever said ‘‘man wouldn’t it be great if a nice big ol’ war was to break out?’’ but history is essentially a list of human wars
Here’s the interview (for a Russian gov’t run TV) youtube.com/watch?v=OV-Hf6II_p4
Later he signed a decree allowing RUssia to use nukes pretty much as he sees fit
It’s only the BBC propaganda that’s interpreting the intent and views of the ’ generals’.
My interpretation is that it’s Putin who is terrified and the cameras were directed to the generals deliberately to send the required message to their counterparts in NATO.
Assuming that it’s supposedly Putin’s show and the chiefs of staff are letting the side down why would the cameras have then wanted/ been allowed to show it.
As for our military we’ve actually got one chief at least who’s gone on record as stating that we have to stay out of this fight because if NATO and Russian forces meet in anger it’s WW3 and that could only ever end one of two ways.Surrender or Mutually Assured Destruction .
So why the zb is NATO so keen to move it’s forces up to Russia’s border including refusing a guarantee to stay out of Ukraine.
We seem to be agreed that Putin means nuking us specifically if NATO refuses to back down ?.Which seems the most likely scenario betting on the idea that the US would refuse a retaliatory strike on Russia that risks an all out retaliatory strike on the US homeland.
So dear old Blighty got through WW2 only to end up sacrificed over a pointless needless suicidal march on Russia’s borders as part of a suicidal unfit for purpose containment defence strategy.Not to mention the big mouth of a woman called Truss and her joke leader Bozo.
I can imagine my Dad turning in his grave over this debacle.Knowing the story of how close he came to ending up fighting the Russians over Istria in 1945 after winning WW2 if we hadn’t have backed down and let Tito take it.
With not being at work I’ve watched a lot of this Russia / Ukraine stuff , and maybe it’s the fact I’ve never been in services , but some of it just seems like it’s staged ,
Russian troops apparently walking into a police station & asking for fuel , apparently a Russian convoy stopping & asking for directions , another lot just casually driving down the street into Kiev , then getting shot to bits
I mean we’re talking about the Russian army , makes you wonder if what’s going on you can believe , why for my lifetime we’ve been that bothered about them
Watching it on the tv they’d struggle with south mead in Bristol
Something really strange going on here
robroy:
Tbf I did not say where I thought Putin intended (or not) to aim his missiles…
It was in response to something Liz Tuss had said (I think earlier that same day or the day before) so take a guess
Although to be fair she said at the end of her statement they (NATO) want to avoid a direct confrontation so mr. P. is grasping at straws.
ETS:
robroy:
Tbf I did not say where I thought Putin intended (or not) to aim his missiles…It was in response to something Liz Tuss had said (I think earlier that same day or the day before) so take a guess
Although to be fair she said at the end of her statement they (NATO) want to avoid a direct confrontation so mr. P. is grasping at straws.
If NATO wanted to avoid a direct confrontation it obviously wouldn’t be putting it’s forces on Russia’s borders including plans to make Ukraine a NATO member.
It’s clear who’s lying.
The truth is the US doesn’t want to expose the US homeland to a nuclear exchange.
So it changed to a defence strategy of containment instead of mutually assured destruction.
Now we’re seeing Russia’s strategy to finally make NATO back off.Bearing in mind now they know that NATO is compromised on the use of nukes.
It’s obvious where Russia’s target will be in that regard and doubt if there would be any retaliation from our Trident subs in the knowledge that the US would be next.
the maoster:
I think he’s received some extremely bad intel from his people prior to launching this escapade.We in the west of course know all about faulty intel don’t we?
Add in the fact that it is likely no one has the balls to tell him the truth and he is being told what he wants to hear. The military capabilities of Russia are continually overblown, look at the equipment being used BMP APC’s been around since the end of the 60’s a .50 Browining using AP rounds will destroy them, T80’s using reactive armour instead of chobham armour no match for any NATO tank and one of the most imprtant factors the will of the average Russian conscript to fight against the Ukrainians who have nothing to lose.
Mazzer2:
the maoster:
I think he’s received some extremely bad intel from his people prior to launching this escapade.We in the west of course know all about faulty intel don’t we?
Add in the fact that it is likely no one has the balls to tell him the truth and he is being told what he wants to hear. The military capabilities of Russia are continually overblown, look at the equipment being used BMP APC’s been around since the end of the 60’s a .50 Browining using AP rounds will destroy them, T80’s using reactive armour instead of chobham armour no match for any NATO tank and one of the most imprtant factors the will of the average Russian conscript to fight against the Ukrainians who have nothing to lose.
.
A .50 cal and a few Challengers isn’t much use against massed heavy artillery and the inevitable escalation to strategic nukes taking out UK.
Which is why we’ve got military chiefs going on record stating that NATO has to stay out of it or its WW3.
So why the zb didn’t NATO take up Russia’s terms to guarantee no Ukraine NATO membership and withdrawal of NATO forces from the buffer states.
Bearing in mind that Russia hasn’t gone for an all out assault on Ukraine it’s obviously only committed an expendable and token force.
The credible threat of Russia cutting to the chase by nuking the UK is the relevant issue here and makes all of your conventional sabre rattling moot.
The truth is NATO has no business and nothing to gain in this suicidal strategy of containment on Russia’s borders.