Can’t disagree with any of that ^^^^ when I was BAOR we attended many briefings pertaining to Russian capabilities and it was apparent that in a conventional war they were seriously outclassed but had overwhelming numbers on their side.
Edit to add; this ^^^ was in response to Mazzer but somehow the premod kid snuck in and screwed that all up. Heaven forbid that he actually thinks it was him I was agreeing with! 
Carryfast:
Mazzer2:
the maoster:
I think he’s received some extremely bad intel from his people prior to launching this escapade.We in the west of course know all about faulty intel don’t we?
Add in the fact that it is likely no one has the balls to tell him the truth and he is being told what he wants to hear. The military capabilities of Russia are continually overblown, look at the equipment being used BMP APC’s been around since the end of the 60’s a .50 Browining using AP rounds will destroy them, T80’s using reactive armour instead of chobham armour no match for any NATO tank and one of the most imprtant factors the will of the average Russian conscript to fight against the Ukrainians who have nothing to lose.
.
A .50 cal and a few Challengers isn’t much use against massed heavy artillery and the inevitable escalation to strategic nukes taking out UK.
Which is why we’ve got military chiefs going on record stating that NATO has to stay out of it or its WW3.
So why the zb didn’t NATO take up Russia’s terms to guarantee no Ukraine NATO membership and withdrawal of NATO forces from the buffer states.
Bearing in mind that Russia hasn’t gone for an all out assault on Ukraine it’s obviously only committed an expendable and token force.
The credible threat of Russia cutting to the chase by nuking the UK is the relevant issue here and makes all of your conventional sabre rattling moot.
The truth is NATO has no business and nothing to gain in this suicidal strategy of containment on Russia’s borders.
Seriously clueless in all you post. 
Mazzer2:
Seriously clueless in all you post.
I wouldn’t bet on it let alone bet the farm on your deluded idea that Russia is a military basket case.
As for NATOs strategy which part of that have I got wrong.
Even Kruschev wasn’t stupid enough to take a conventional knife to a nuke gunfight and knew when to back down.
Just transpose JFK and the US with Putin and Russia now.Except Putin has made a better attempt at his Bay of Pigs.
Swordsy:
Does anyone else think this war has been totally strange how we have seen barely any footage of actual fighting?
The last major war in our time was Iraq and we saw loads of footage of missiles and strikes etc…
We are in an age now where everyone has a phone and can film and upload footage yet all we’ve seen is the odd cctv footage of a missile strike…
Seems very strange to me in our age of everyone filming stuff…
Only a Major General what would he know.
Carryfast:
Which is why we’ve got military chiefs going on record stating that NATO has to stay out of it or its WW3.
So why the zb didn’t NATO take up Russia’s terms to guarantee no Ukraine NATO membership and withdrawal of NATO forces from the buffer states.The credible threat of Russia cutting to the chase by nuking the UK is the relevant issue here and makes all of your conventional sabre rattling moot.
bristolpost.co.uk/news/uk-wo … ry-6727606
It’s obvious that it’s Liz Truss and Bozo who are only listening to and being told what they want to hear.
Bin Man:
Swordsy:
Does anyone else think this war has been totally strange how we have seen barely any footage of actual fighting?
The last major war in our time was Iraq and we saw loads of footage of missiles and strikes etc…
We are in an age now where everyone has a phone and can film and upload footage yet all we’ve seen is the odd cctv footage of a missile strike…
Seems very strange to me in our age of everyone filming stuff…
In previous actions some footage of explosions etc has come from attacking forces. They know where the missiles are targeted, it isn`t defenders filming hundreds of buildings waiting for a strike.
The Russians arent putting up the promised (to their public) film of grateful civilians welcoming a liberating army. They dont want to show the resistance their forces are meeting, nor themselves targeting civil targets…war crimes.
Franglais:
targeting civil targets…war crimes.
Unless you’re a pacifist then you understand that ultimately all war means total war since at least WW2.
By your logic the nuclear deterrent would have been made illegal and everyone who serves on a ‘boomer’ sub a criminal.
Self rightious propaganda won’t stop this.
NATO backing down now on its dangerous failed strategy of containment is all that will stop the inevitable escalation that follows.
Only a naive fool wouldn’t take Russia’s clear nuke threats seriously.
How frustrating to see the Russians queueing up to get into Kyiv. Why have the convoys not been attacked. I know the small Ukranian army and defence forces have to pick their battles, but an ambush or air strike would, at this time, be very effective.
They are sitting ducks. Also, if we take mad mullahs out, and Russia can hide behind their ‘little green men’, lets assassinate Putin. Has history taught us nothing. The time for action is now. Otherwise, we know the sad narrative. Thousands and thousands of deaths until we prevail.
Janos:
Thousands and thousands of deaths until we prevail.
Not this time.Where did the idea that WW3 would or could have a winner come from.
I don’t get it.I grew up under the assumption of better dead than red we all go out in an MAD exchange but we’ll go the extra mile to avoid it.That’s the principle of a deterrent.Its a deterrent to conventional war and in Russia’s or China’s case not surrendering to a bunch of vengeful savages.
War with Russia by definition means WW3 and if NATO doesn’t back down this will inevitably escalate to WW3.If I was going to bet the farm on anything here I’d bet it on that. Although it’s possible that modern generations are naive enough to prefer the option of surrender than MAD.
youtube.com/watch?v=NM6I-pmV0RA
Comrad Dinky Winky Putin must swing
Carryfast:
Franglais:
targeting civil targets…war crimes.Unless you’re a pacifist then you understand that ultimately all war means total war since at least WW2.
By your logic the nuclear deterrent would have been made illegal and everyone who serves on a ‘boomer’ sub a criminal.
Self rightious propaganda won’t stop this.
NATO backing down now on its dangerous failed strategy of containment is all that will stop the inevitable escalation that follows.
Only a naive fool wouldn’t take Russia’s clear nuke threats seriously.
There are obviously a hell of lot of ‘Naive Fools’ in the higher echelons of NATO then eh?..despite being experienced and knowledgeable high ranking military men for the greater part of their lives.
Give em a bell.Carryfast,.and you put em right.
Tell em you have no military experience but you’ve done a hell of a lot of night trunking and worked for the council.
I’m sure all the Field Marshalls , Admirals, Air Vice Marshalls and all ranks below will hang on your every word.
robroy:
Carryfast:
Franglais:
targeting civil targets…war crimes.Unless you’re a pacifist then you understand that ultimately all war means total war since at least WW2.
By your logic the nuclear deterrent would have been made illegal and everyone who serves on a ‘boomer’ sub a criminal.
Self rightious propaganda won’t stop this.
NATO backing down now on its dangerous failed strategy of containment is all that will stop the inevitable escalation that follows.
Only a naive fool wouldn’t take Russia’s clear nuke threats seriously.There are obviously a hell of lot of ‘Naive Fools’ in the higher echelons of NATO then eh?..despite being experienced and knowledgeable high ranking military men for the greater part of their lives.
Give em a bell.Carryfast,.and you put em right.
Tell em you have no military experience but you’ve done a hell of a lot of night trunking and worked for the council.
I’m sure all the Field Marshalls , Admirals, Air Vice Marshalls and all ranks below will hang on your every word.
To be fair ironically working for the council brought me into contact with nuclear civil defence provisions.Which gave me a good grounding on Strategic nuclear attack both the lead up to it and the aftermath
The simulated practice runs were good enough for Russia to take as the real thing and you’ll never know how close that came to a pre emptive launch on their part.
The film Threads was released soon after.
Luckily the generals then never at any time were stupid enough to have dreamed of sending the BAOR into Poland let alone Ukraine.Just like JFK never mobilised any conventional forces in Europe over Cuba.
But he did threaten Kruschev with a preemptive strategic nuke attack.Luckily for the world Kruschev knew it was no idle threat.
It takes a lot for me to be staggered by complete and total arrogance but I confess that I am now. I’m not certain if it’s the total and complete belief and surety displayed or if I’m witnessing genuine insanity from a first hand perspective that perplexes me the most.
Absolutely ■■■■ all experience of transport this century? Not a problem, I’ll tell you how it should be. No military experience other than playing cowboys and Indians as a kid? Doesn’t matter, my own self belief will do nicely thank you.
Staggering.
the maoster:
It takes a lot for me to be staggered by complete and total arrogance but I confess that I am now. I’m not certain if it’s the total and complete belief and surety displayed or if I’m witnessing genuine insanity from a first hand perspective that perplexes me the most.Absolutely [zb] all experience of transport this century? Not a problem, I’ll tell you how it should be. No military experience other than playing cowboys and Indians as a kid? Doesn’t matter, my own self belief will do nicely thank you.
Staggering.
NATO marching up to Russia’s borders and expecting them to say fine that’s ok is what I call staggering arrogance and deluded naivety for good measure.
So what’s your ‘experience’ of the mechanics of strategic nuclear warfare.Probably less than mine.
Good luck with the ongoing NATO posturing on Russia’s borders as opposed to the climb down that’s needed.
Military experience is the problem in this case as opposed to those expected to clean up and fix the results.
This isn’t the Falklands let alone the Iraq and Afghan debacles.
theguardian.com/commentisfre … ia-ukraine
Staggering stupidity and arrogance ( by NATO ) indeed.
Carryfast:
So what’s your ‘experience’ of the mechanics of strategic nuclear warfare.Probably less than mine.
Oh please please do enlighten us with your experience.
No, three tours as brown toggle of the Leatherhead branch of the Scouts does not count.
the maoster:
Carryfast:
So what’s your ‘experience’ of the mechanics of strategic nuclear warfare.Probably less than mine.Oh please please do enlighten us with your experience.
No, three tours as brown toggle of the Leatherhead branch of the Scouts does not count.
I’ve probably seen the inside of more local government nuclear bunkers than you’d know even existed.
It would be ironic if SALT and the strategy of containment not MAD now turns out to be what actually gets us nuked and those bunkers long ago decommissioned.
Facebook is currently showing a video of Diane Abbot criticising Putin for rolling his tanks into Croatia!
Dear God, that very nearly was our Home Secretary.
Well this is my stance on it,.I didn’t realise the criteria was so low…so.
I’m shipping out as a freedom fighter to join the Ukraine forces.
Military based qualifications??
I once delivered to RAF Lossiemouth, stayed overnight, .and had a couple of pints in the Sergeant’s mess.
I’ve also delivered to The Horse Guards HQ in Hyde park,.and had my dinner there.
So those two examples with the fact that I have seen every episode of Seal Team on the telly…TWICE,.will qualify me quite enough for military service. 
Cheers Carryfast,.I appreciate your guidance.
I’ll let you know how I get on.
