Why would they go back? - it’s not a war, just a “special military operation”. Yeah, right.
On the other hand, I know of a group of five Ukrainian lads in their twenties who left here on Monday to go back and potentially fight, all leaving jobs, some leaving wives and families here.
Mazzer2:
Well it would appear that we were all wrong and he has invaded, years of appeaseing a ruthless dictator by the western world and we are now surprised by his actions, the UN useless 2 out of the 5 top seats are held by dictatorships with no interst in anyone elses view other than their own interests. Biden on Radio 4 offering prayers to the Ukraine people yet to see a prayer that protects you from incoming firepower. This has been building for years Putin having given himself the power to rule until he decides to stand down only had to bide his time and see the West’s reaction to his every transgression of international law and to see that he could do what he wanted as there is no stomach in the West to stand up to dictators.
A sad day for western democracies who yet again shy away from tough decisions and expect someone else to solve the worlds problems while they just put their heads in the sand and hope the problem goes away
Strange how this supposed ‘ruthless dictator’ offered terms which just said stop NATO threatening Russias borders including a guarantee regarding Ukraine.
We’ve applied DMZ’s to keep the peace when and where it suits us so why not the former WP buffers why the double standards.
It was NATO which moved in where Russia moved out.
Bearing in mind war with Russia by definition will go nuclear one way or another and China is an even bigger and worse threat.
Going the extra mile to avert Armageddon is what JFK did over Cuba that wasn’t appeasement or burying his head in the sand.
In this case not all of us are as enthusiastic to end it all over some internal Slavic arguments and squabbles and the stupid idea of marching on Russia’s borders as part of that as defence strategy.
By your logic we’d have kicked off WW3 just after WW2 had ended to save Istria and Poland in 1945.Ironically that’s what the Germans thought we would do and were up for it.Luckily unlike our forces who rightly said let it all go.
fodenway:
Why would they go back? - it’s not a war, just a “special military operation”. Yeah, right.
On the other hand, I know of a group of five Ukrainian lads in their twenties who left here on Monday to go back and potentially fight, all leaving jobs, some leaving wives and families here.
They think that’s a better option than Ukraine guaranteeing to stay out of NATO.
At best they turn Ukraine into a grave yard for Russians.Then they think that Russia will just say sorry and forget about it.
Good luck with that.
Coincidence that Trump ain’t the president and Putin starts a war…
Sent from my SM-T976B using Tapatalk
Monkey241:
If BAOR was slated for 48 hrs survival, please explain REFORGER.I’ll have to question your currency on defence matters since BAOR hasn’t existed for about 30 years (it changed to BFG.
So what changed other than let’s March a smaller less well armed force, on Russia’s borders.That’ll fix everything.
As opposed to when I was told, under condition of the secrets act, during able archer, around 40 years ago, that 48 hours was about it before it goes nuclear and the country as we knew it ceases to exist.
Then the film Threads was as near as it gets in that regard which has now strangely been taken down from YouTube.
nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/ … ans-126717
The truth is no one wanted to die and risk losing all of western Europe for Istria let alone Poland or Ukraine then so why now.
Especially after Russia had given us an Olive branch by withdrawing it’s forces.
Only for NATO to then take the ■■■■ and kick Russia in the teeth.
Hopefully I’m wrong but Russia’s issue with NATO won’t stop at Ukraine.
With a friend like Trump, who in the west would need an enemy?
news.sky.com/story/ukraine-russ … s-12549418
What a piece of work!
Franglais:
With a friend like Trump, who in the west would need an enemy?
news.sky.com/story/ukraine-russ … s-12549418
What a piece of work!
In the same way that many here rightly said that Rommel and Kesselring were geniuses.
So where is Commy appeaser Biden’s reply, to the clear threat of use of nukes by Russia or more like Putin’s Chinese puppet master.
By tearing up SALT and declaring that first use of nukes by NATO is now on the table v these Commy scum.Just like Trump did v NK.
You sound French by nature.Talk a good fight but you’d run a mile from the real thing and respecting your enemy is the first requirement for the real thing.
Franglais:
With a friend like Trump, who in the west would need an enemy?
This Trump this friend of the West.
The same Trump who was admonished by Biden for saying it.
Carryfast:
Mazzer2:
Well it would appear that we were all wrong and he has invaded, years of appeaseing a ruthless dictator by the western world and we are now surprised by his actions, the UN useless 2 out of the 5 top seats are held by dictatorships with no interst in anyone elses view other than their own interests. Biden on Radio 4 offering prayers to the Ukraine people yet to see a prayer that protects you from incoming firepower. This has been building for years Putin having given himself the power to rule until he decides to stand down only had to bide his time and see the West’s reaction to his every transgression of international law and to see that he could do what he wanted as there is no stomach in the West to stand up to dictators.
A sad day for western democracies who yet again shy away from tough decisions and expect someone else to solve the worlds problems while they just put their heads in the sand and hope the problem goes awayStrange how this supposed ‘ruthless dictator’ offered terms which just said stop NATO threatening Russias borders including a guarantee regarding Ukraine.
We’ve applied DMZ’s to keep the peace when and where it suits us so why not the former WP buffers why the double standards.
It was NATO which moved in where Russia moved out.
Bearing in mind war with Russia by definition will go nuclear one way or another and China is an even bigger and worse threat.
Going the extra mile to avert Armageddon is what JFK did over Cuba that wasn’t appeasement or burying his head in the sand.
In this case not all of us are as enthusiastic to end it all over some internal Slavic arguments and squabbles and the stupid idea of marching on Russia’s borders as part of that as defence strategy.
By your logic we’d have kicked off WW3 just after WW2 had ended to save Istria and Poland in 1945.Ironically that’s what the Germans thought we would do and were up for it.Luckily unlike our forces who rightly said let it all go.
Did NATO move in?
Or did Sovereign States opt for a security blanket?
You speak of NATO as some kind of vindictive automaton when the fact is states with an understandable fear of Russian expansionism actively chose to join what is by its very charter, a defencive alliance.
Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk
Monkey241:
Carryfast:
Mazzer2:
Well it would appear that we were all wrong and he has invaded, years of appeaseing a ruthless dictator by the western world and we are now surprised by his actions, the UN useless 2 out of the 5 top seats are held by dictatorships with no interst in anyone elses view other than their own interests. Biden on Radio 4 offering prayers to the Ukraine people yet to see a prayer that protects you from incoming firepower. This has been building for years Putin having given himself the power to rule until he decides to stand down only had to bide his time and see the West’s reaction to his every transgression of international law and to see that he could do what he wanted as there is no stomach in the West to stand up to dictators.
A sad day for western democracies who yet again shy away from tough decisions and expect someone else to solve the worlds problems while they just put their heads in the sand and hope the problem goes awayStrange how this supposed ‘ruthless dictator’ offered terms which just said stop NATO threatening Russias borders including a guarantee regarding Ukraine.
We’ve applied DMZ’s to keep the peace when and where it suits us so why not the former WP buffers why the double standards.
It was NATO which moved in where Russia moved out.
Bearing in mind war with Russia by definition will go nuclear one way or another and China is an even bigger and worse threat.
Going the extra mile to avert Armageddon is what JFK did over Cuba that wasn’t appeasement or burying his head in the sand.
In this case not all of us are as enthusiastic to end it all over some internal Slavic arguments and squabbles and the stupid idea of marching on Russia’s borders as part of that as defence strategy.
By your logic we’d have kicked off WW3 just after WW2 had ended to save Istria and Poland in 1945.Ironically that’s what the Germans thought we would do and were up for it.Luckily unlike our forces who rightly said let it all go.Did NATO move in?
Or did Sovereign States opt for a security blanket?
You speak of NATO as some kind of vindictive automaton when the fact is states with an understandable fear of Russian expansionism actively chose to join what is by its very charter, a defencive alliance.
They had the same ultimate ‘blanket’ as we did in the form of the nuclear deterrent.
So what was the point and what was to be gained by moving conventional forces up to Russia’s borders.
Other than a provocative move sending the message to Russia that we’ve dropped the MAD strategy in favour of a conventional war in Russia’s back yard.
Ironically with less of a force and hardware than we had under MAD, to back up the suicidal move.
Why do you try to suggest that sovereignty is mutually exclusive with turning those buffers into DMZ’s all still under the NATO nuke deterrent.
The truth is the US got cold feet with MAD they were never going to trade the homeland for what they perceive as a European War.
Big mistake because if Putin’s generals are bright enough they now know that NATO would prefer surrender to an all out nuclear exchange.
In which case Russia’s next move is obvious they won’t stop at Ukraine and everything they do from there will be under the threat of a strategic nuke first strike against us and/or the US.
If Biden and Boris had the balls that would now be the obvious response in kind.
No more SALT and strategic nuke first strike is on the table.Including China being seen as the same target as Russia.
While withdrawing conventional forces from Eastern Europe not putting them in.
No panic here, hes just taken back what’s his, there is no way any force will go against him, not even the Americans, they have been in enough wars to know that they ain’t got a clue and been out of their depth most of their time in any war they have been in,
ie Google it, the have never won a real war
Also this nato so called army, what the ■■■■ is that, only something that exists if they have the the backing of the USA,
You have the whole of Europe 3 times the size of Russia and they can’t defend themselves without the Americans ■■■■■■■ joke
Fact the Americans will not get involved, and even if Russia goes further than that what they think is necessary, the Americans still won’t get involved
If the so called superpowers think imposing restrictions is a form of been a superpower and let people die well then we are all ■■■■■■
mirror.co.uk/news/world-news … n-26318283
To which Biden’s and Bozos response is let’s send in a few more conventional forces that’ll scare the Commy scumbags.
As opposed to a statement SALT is now history NATOs strategic nuke deterrent has been put to DEFCON 2 and first strike is now an option we regard China and Russia as a joint enterprise in that regard.
All NATO ground forces are being withdrawn from Eastern Europe and demobilised.
Trump indeed.
Even with the incursions well under way, western media is still trying to have us believe a load of bull when it comes to the fine detail of any or all sorties - from BOTH sides.
In this age of 1080P video - there’s NO excuses for well-taken HD video to be shot, not just by a handful of people, but by pretty much everyone with a tablet or Iphone device.
Yet we’re being shown a rather lot of grainy, wobbly, shots that often don’t have any recognizable landmarks in shot, suggesting that an awful lot of the footage that IS making it onto our news screens is “Old hat, taken somewhere else entirely” rather than actually “Faked” in the sense we think of it…
NATO is trying to justify it’s ongoing existance,
Kiev - is yesterday’s regime, nothing they can do to stay afloat without NATO boots on the ground…
“Harsh Language” and “cease trading” - isn’t going to punish Putin, but WILL punish Western citizens who’s energy prices have already gone sky-high even before any of this happened…
One way or the other, I reckon this is going to end up with a partitioned former Ukraine, the West run by a puppet NATO government, the East solidly part of Russia, and an iron curtain border right down the river in the middle…
There’s an argument for the coast being captured all the way to the border with Romania as well, bearing in mind Romanians seem to be supporting Russia on this one, if the lack of news lately out of Romania itself is anything to go by…
The stock market sold off today, gold and Oil rallied. … THen the markets calmed down, and REVERSED those moves, pretty much entirely…
Oil - Spiked above $100 for the first time in years, and then fell back to close slightly DOWN on the day’s trading.
Gold - rallied over £60 per ounce, before also falling back, surrendering all it’s earlier gains on the day.
The Dow Jones (closes at 21:00hrs UK time) climbed all the way back up to close +92 after being down nearly a thousand in earlier trading, and left the FTSE “low” and Dry, down 285, as the Dow was still down nearly 1000 at the London close 16:30hrs.
The Dollar - rallied, and it too - gave back most of it’s gains.
NATO must NOT be allowed to re-appropriate money from it’s member states from other causes, Eg. NHS, Public Services, or even staving off another round of tax hikes… Why SHOULD we be expected to “keep down pay settlements”, “put up with sky high energy bills”, and now cough up even more money so NATO can play soldiers against a country that should be selling us cheap gas, and for a country that with the IRA fought AGAINST Britain, America and Russia in WWII?
There are arguments to be had with regards to Neo ■■■■ outfits freely moving about in Ukraine. One of these outfits - likely was behind the MH17 atrocity, using a piece of Ex-Soviet kit within Eastern Ukrainian “disputed” regions to do nothing other than “Make Putin Look Bad”. There was NO motive for Putin to go around murdering Western Europeans at all - until the rest of the world’s media - decided that there was and “Ukraine” can do no wrong…
Well, Putin’s now decided “Enough is Enough” clearly.
This war stops - when NATO decides it can - Ukraine - gave up their chance to negotiate directly with Putin the moment they got tied in with NATO involvement in a war that isn’t relevant to the rest of the EU, let alone the rest of NATO member states.
If anyone wants to go fight Ukraine’s corner here - be my guest. Like having “Compulsory” vaccinations, I don’t agree that anyone in Western Europe - should be called up to fight a nuclear superpower, rather than enforce proper democracy in their own actual countries they are responisble for running.
It isn’t our fault that the Biden family took a big pile of money from the Ukraine regime to “save it from Putin” only to have bungling Biden drop the ball before even putting Boot One on the ground…
Now, if I were Putin, I’d seek to be raiding whatever places near but not actually IN the population centers - to see what decent new kit deliveries I can “acquire”, maybe alongside a few stacks of “Valuable Cargo” like we used to see delivered to Iraq during THAT “Illegal War”…
Winseer:
Even with the incursions well under way, western media is still trying to have us believe a load of bull when it comes to the fine detail of any or all sorties - from BOTH sides.In this age of 1080P video - there’s NO excuses for well-taken HD video to be shot, not just by a handful of people, but by pretty much everyone with a tablet or Iphone device.
Yet we’re being shown a rather lot of grainy, wobbly, shots that often don’t have any recognizable landmarks in shot, suggesting that an awful lot of the footage that IS making it onto our news screens is “Old hat, taken somewhere else entirely” rather than actually “Faked” in the sense we think of it…
NATO is trying to justify it’s ongoing existance,
Kiev - is yesterday’s regime, nothing they can do to stay afloat without NATO boots on the ground…
“Harsh Language” and “cease trading” - isn’t going to punish Putin, but WILL punish Western citizens who’s energy prices have already gone sky-high even before any of this happened…
0One way or the other, I reckon this is going to end up with a partitioned former Ukraine, the West run by a puppet NATO government, the East solidly part of Russia, and an iron curtain border right down the river in the middle…
There’s an argument for the coast being captured all the way to the border with Romania as well, bearing in mind Romanians seem to be supporting Russia on this one, if the lack of news lately out of Romania itself is anything to go by…
The stock market sold off today, gold and Oil rallied. … THen the markets calmed down, and REVERSED those moves, pretty much entirely…
Oil - Spiked above $100 for the first time in years, and then fell back to close slightly DOWN on the day’s trading.
Gold - rallied over £60 per ounce, before also falling back, surrendering all it’s earlier gains on the day.
The Dow Jones (closes at 21:00hrs UK time) climbed all the way back up to close +92 after being down nearly a thousand in earlier trading, and left the FTSE “low” and Dry, down 285, as the Dow was still down nearly 1000 at the London close 16:30hrs.The Dollar - rallied, and it too - gave back most of it’s gains.
NATO must NOT be allowed to re-appropriate money from it’s member states from other causes, Eg. NHS, Public Services, or even staving off another round of tax hikes… Why SHOULD we be expected to “keep down pay settlements”, “put up with sky high energy bills”, and now cough up even more money so NATO can play soldiers against a country that should be selling us cheap gas, and for a country that with the IRA fought AGAINST Britain, America and Russia in WWII?
There are arguments to be had with regards to Neo ■■■■ outfits freely moving about in Ukraine. One of these outfits - likely was behind the MH17 atrocity, using a piece of Ex-Soviet kit within Eastern Ukrainian “disputed” regions to do nothing other than “Make Putin Look Bad”. There was NO motive for Putin to go around murdering Western Europeans at all - until the rest of the world’s media - decided that there was and “Ukraine” can do no wrong…
Well, Putin’s now decided “Enough is Enough” clearly.
This war stops - when NATO decides it can - Ukraine - gave up their chance to negotiate directly with Putin the moment they got tied in with NATO involvement in a war that isn’t relevant to the rest of the EU, let alone the rest of NATO member states.
If anyone wants to go fight Ukraine’s corner here - be my guest. Like having “Compulsory” vaccinations, I don’t agree that anyone in Western Europe - should be called up to fight a nuclear superpower, rather than enforce proper democracy in their own actual countries they are responisble for running.
It isn’t our fault that the Biden family took a big pile of money from the Ukraine regime to “save it from Putin” only to have bungling Biden drop the ball before even putting Boot One on the ground…
Now, if I were Putin, I’d seek to be raiding whatever places near but not actually IN the population centers - to see what decent new kit deliveries I can “acquire”, maybe alongside a few stacks of “Valuable Cargo” like we used to see delivered to Iraq during THAT “Illegal War”…
You’re way behind events.
Boris is now promising us some bs Churchillian vision of a long protracted bloody crusade like it’s 1914 or 1939.
This isn’t the idea of WW3 that I grew up with or as depicted in the realistic film Threads…
It all stinks and it all seems staged.
What next call up papers for the Russian front and a generation of unwanted workers and pension claimants told to march into the Russian guns.
Bigtruck3:
No panic here, hes just taken back what’s his, there is no way any force will go against him, not even the Americans, they have been in enough wars to know that they ain’t got a clue and been out of their depth most of their time in any war they have been in,
ie Google it, the have never won a real war
Japan would disagree.
The allies would have lost WW2 without US involvement if late.Dont count the stinking Russian Commy scum as allies.That was our mistake in WW1 in not joining Germany against them.
Patton was right about them and maybe America and us should have rearmed what remained of the Werhmacht and Luftwaffe and Kreigsmarine over Istria and nuked Moscow and Vladivostok as an opener.
We’ll probably have to finish it now one way or another.Unless we like eating cabbage soup and working until we drop in a Gulag or worse a Chinese reeducation camp.
What is certain is that Bozo and Biden aren’t up to that job both gutless snivelling Commy appeasers.Putin and his handler Jinping want to play at nuclear war then best get in first and see them out first.
reuters.com/business/autos-t … 022-02-23/
dailymail.co.uk/news/article … utton.html
Lie with dogs get fleas.Ukrainian hypocrites like all the rest.So now China unleashes it’s puppet Putin to take what it wants instead of buying it.A country rich in raw materials and grain which is happy dealing with Communists when it suits it who would have thought it.
As predicted the EU has failed to agree on sanctions that will cause major damage to Putin/Russia
Not from me but from one of the EU’s staunchest supporters and no surprise who is heading up the block
Mazzer2:
As predicted the EU has failed to agree on sanctions that will cause major damage to Putin/Russia
Not from me but from one of the EU’s staunchest supporters and no surprise who is heading up the block
To be fair we had to give up part of Italy rather than fight Tito’s invited in Russian Red Army and we all know what happened to Germany in 1945.
So what’s changed no one wanted to risk western Europe for that or Chzech or Poland so why Ukraine of all places or even Poland now.
We are supposedly the nuclear armed big hitters in this shambles of NATOs own making
So now time to walk the walk in that regard.
Bearing in mind Putin’s clear threat of a first strike if NATO doesn’t stop annoying him.Same in the case of China.
Obviously too late now to back off from Russias’ borders the damage has been done and he won’t stop at Ukraine, without us and the US waving a big nuke stick back at him and his Chinese handlers.
That’s obviously got nothing to do with any pathetic Italian or German sanctions.
Bearing in mind that, unlike us, they both know what conventional war sabre rattling v Russia and the inevitable result means.
War with Russia let alone with China too means surrender or MAD there’s no victory to be had for us in WW3 it’s one of those two choices and I’ve always preferred the idea of the latter.
We’re only in this mess because of those who lost their bottle in that regard thereby taking out the credibility of our nuke deterrent.
The truth is Putin thinks we’re too scared to use it and without us tearing up SALT and putting first strike back on the table he’s right.
Biden talks about AMericans having to “make sacrifices” in the form of higher gas(oline) bills in particular.
Meanwhile, back here - (belongs on other threat “Rising Electric and Gas Prices” perhaps…)
Got a letter this morning - The price is going up for Electricity by about 50% and gas by nearly 75% from April 1st.
WTF■■?
Here’s the chart for UK Natural Gas…
It is WAY off the top already and they think we’re going to swallow THIS completely profiteered, made-up price■■? 
“Great Reset” - seems poised to loot and uttery rob ALL western citizens with less than a million in the bank now - “All in the name of speaking harsh sanction language to Putin”…
…Putin - this guy a wise person would consider Buying Gas from right now, rather than consider buying the farm trying to fight against his (in his mind…) “Just War” of Neo ■■■■ clearances…
I can’t help but think that over the following weeks and months, when Ukraine isn’t taken back for Kiev, and our bills continue to skyrocket - that any “political pressure” to cease and desist - will be aimed at Western Establishment rather than Putin’s clearly under-estimated ‘establishment’… 
Putin has balls let’s face it… anyone who tells them yanks that if they try n start and want a go they will get the same…has for them krauts all they are bothered about is not having the gas cut off so as not to ■■■■ them up controlling Europe like they do with the economy.
Sent from my SM-N976B using Tapatalk