Ukraine [merged]

OUT OF HOURS BULLY'S TRUCKSTOP BAR (INTERACTIVE)
101

OwenMoney:

Monkey241:
No…Thatcher didn’t do the same with the Falklands. Ideology didn’t replace historical analysis

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She used the Falklands war to ’ shag flags ’ and to raise the nasty xenaphobic’s against the Argentinians to boost her declining ratings .

You really need to invest in a good history of the conflict.

And - maybe you can answer this - why do those pretending to inhabit the moral highground have such poor levels of literacy?

It’s X E N O

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102

OwenMoney:

Monkey241:
No…Thatcher didn’t do the same with the Falklands. Ideology didn’t replace historical analysis

She used the Falklands war to ’ shag flags ’ and to raise the nasty xenaphobic’s against the Argentinians to boost her declining ratings .

To be fair born and bred Yorkshire was as bad as Argy to her.
Not in the same league as Biden, Bozo and Truss now trying to do what Hitler and Napoleon failed to do v Russia.

103

Franglais:
18hr 30
Putin has “recognised the independence” of two breakaway Ukranian states, controlled by Russian sympathisers…
Wonder if those “newly independent states” will be asking for any aid and assistance soon?

…If they see civilians from the West of Ukraine, coming in to commit local crimes like the “Explosions” and “violations of the ceasefire” like that non-event “Observation Team” seem to be posting about above - then Yes. I can see Putin very quickly asked for such assistance - merely to keep law and order if nothing else…

BUT…

Assad invited Russian troops into Syria, - which then didn’t stop the lies and spin of other present western backed outfits that were going around being the agitators there, ignoring ISIS atrocities, and concentrating on False-Flag Throwdown events, like the so-called Chlorine attacks (Chlorine chosen, because you can’t easily prove you don’t have it!) and showing the blackened bodies from a SARIN attack taken years before in some back-of-beyond place where no one will recognize that the entire propaganda excercise has any leaks in it at all…

Propaganda - is more about creating “Believeable Bull” than it is about “excluding stuff that makes you look like a villain”, don’t forget.

It still amazes me that plenty of people around the world still think it is “propaganda” if you only show true and accurate stuff, i.e. without the caveat along the lines of “Isis killed thousands of women and children here, but we failed to capture it on film, so it didn’t happen. Meanwhile, Assad dropped a bunker buster on a school, and killed the same number in actuality - atoricites committed on both sides there”… Hey Presto - every death that would have been attributed to ISIS is now attributed to Assad!

No one wants to suggest that maybe Assad was a victim of a managed bulls hit campaign that would have made someone like Josef Goebbels proud!

104

Monkey241:

OwenMoney:

Monkey241:
No…Thatcher didn’t do the same with the Falklands. Ideology didn’t replace historical analysis

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

She used the Falklands war to ’ shag flags ’ and to raise the nasty xenaphobic’s against the Argentinians to boost her declining ratings .

You really need to invest in a good history of the conflict.

And - maybe you can answer this - why do those pretending to inhabit the moral highground have such poor levels of literacy?

It’s X E N O
Easy - Can you spell in French smarty ■■■■■■■ ■■ You want to complain about my error in spelling but not the reasoning ?
My logic is Alexander will go to war in the Ukraine to hide from the failings of Brexit and Partygate— like Thatcher did – but with less Prosecco or candles.

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105

OwenMoney:

Monkey241:

OwenMoney:

Monkey241:
No…Thatcher didn’t do the same with the Falklands. Ideology didn’t replace historical analysis

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

She used the Falklands war to ’ shag flags ’ and to raise the nasty xenaphobic’s against the Argentinians to boost her declining ratings .

You really need to invest in a good history of the conflict.

And - maybe you can answer this - why do those pretending to inhabit the moral highground have such poor levels of literacy?

It’s X E N O
Easy - Can you spell in French smarty ■■■■■■■ ■■ You want to complain about my error in spelling but not the reasoning ?

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

I can spell in a multitude of languages, old lad.

I’ve explained how the reasoning is flawed. You need to read the history and ignore your ideological bias

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106

OwenMoney:

Monkey241:
No…Thatcher didn’t do the same with the Falklands. Ideology didn’t replace historical analysis

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

She used the Falklands war to ’ shag flags ’ and to raise the nasty xenaphobic’s against the Argentinians to boost her declining ratings .

If that was true, then it would be folly all around the world to carry out a provocotive act that your opponent may well go out of their way to “over-react” to, maybe go to direct hot war over…?

D’ya think the American Democrat Party - are on the back foot so much right now, that they’d be happy to go to a hot war actually IN the place that is supposed to be (by their own accusations) the front line - Kiev?

I don’t think they are in any danger in Kiev. I think the talking heads there know it too…

If Kiev is now attacked, it’ll likely be by an occupying Belarussian force, not a Russian in sight.

The Russian Troops - are likely for dealing with any death squads that may be migrating across the country to deal with those pesky upstarts who want independence…

Putin knows that NATO won’t negotiate, so can leave the troops on his side of the border indefinitely, a constant menace to Ukraine that’ll be as endemic as Covid…

They don’t need to be any more than a “border control” really, if you think about it…

How much longer can Biden’s team keep so many big shots in the Kiev hotels recently vacated by those told to “Leave Kiev Now - Attack Imminent” though?

Lies and Spin, Spin and Lies, Spin and Spin, Lies and Lies…

0% Truth and 100% bull - but the narrative still goes out on just about every so-called “Western” news channel on the planet.
Even GB news have failed to get any journalists on the ground, at least where the actual action is…

107

Monkey241:

OwenMoney:
She used the Falklands war to ’ shag flags ’ and to raise the nasty xenaphobic’s against the Argentinians to boost her declining ratings .

You really need to invest in a good history of the conflict.

And - maybe you can answer this - why do those pretending to inhabit the moral highground have such poor levels of literacy?

It’s X E N O

History indeed.

youtu.be/qpBrkGFd24g

That was obviously after the Tory government had signed off the scrapping of our catapult equipped carriers thereby providing the Argentine Junta with an incentive and which almost worked for them thanks to our crippled as a result air cover.

Which has absolutely nothing to do with the potentially catastrophic decision, to implement a defence policy against Russia, based on containment instead of MAD.
While making its axis partner China as strong if not stronger.

108

OwenMoney:
My logic is Alexander will go to war in the Ukraine to hide from the failings of Brexit and Partygate— like Thatcher did – but with less Prosecco or candles.

Since when were Poland and the Baltics and Biden pro Brexit.
You do know that Farage is actually calling for NATO to back off from Russia’s borders.
While Starmer is onside with Boris and Biden in wanting Ukraine in the EU and NATO.
As for Thatcher you mean the same Thatcher who backed Heath in the EEC referendum.
As opposed to Benn and Shore on the Labour side.

109

Does this mean Renault, VW, Kia & Toyota off the top of my head who have car manufacturing plants in Russia will be sanctioned by uncle Sam & the EU?

110

lancpudn:
Does this mean Renault, VW, Kia & Toyota off the top of my head who have car manufacturing plants in Russia will be sanctioned by uncle Sam & the EU?

Bearing in mind that Fiat was in there at the peak of the Cold War with no issues from the US and my own employers at the time exported more to the WP states than the EEC.
We were also sharing holiday beaches in Yugoslavia with Russian tourists as WP allied Migs practiced along the Adriatic coast and Russia invaded Afghanistan.Theres a lot more to this Machiavellian crap sometimes even Manalishi makes more sense.

111

lancpudn:
Does this mean Renault, VW, Kia & Toyota off the top of my head who have car manufacturing plants in Russia will be sanctioned by uncle Sam & the EU?

Good question.

But I expect a fudge will be found to avoid it. Don’t forget in WW2 GM managed, I understand, to work on with their German plants. I believe even financially via Switzerland.

But if it does it might, just might, persuade these companies to seek more stable ground to build future factories.

112

Will Johnson need to find new tennis partners?

113

OwenMoney:

Monkey241:
No…Thatcher didn’t do the same with the Falklands. Ideology didn’t replace historical analysis

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

She used the Falklands war to ’ shag flags ’ and to raise the nasty xenaphobic’s against the Argentinians to boost her declining ratings .

A just conflict which resulted in the removal of a vicious dictator and allowed some form of democracy in Argentina, but easy to moralise when you live in a country that thinks nothing of murdering environmental protesters.
To the Ukraine, the EU still hasn’t come up with a plan of action with regards sanctions yet again conflict on the EU’s doorstep and outside nations are at the forefront of trying to resolve it the Russians must be quaking in their boots when the richest country in Europe has contributed 500 helmets to the defence of Ukraine and blocked the sale of weaponery from other EU nations to the Ukraine. Trying to get 26 countries all with different interests to agree is never going to be easy but Putin will see this as a sign of weakness and exploit it as much as he can.

114

Mazzer2:

OwenMoney:

Monkey241:
No…Thatcher didn’t do the same with the Falklands. Ideology didn’t replace historical analysis

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

She used the Falklands war to ’ shag flags ’ and to raise the nasty xenaphobic’s against the Argentinians to boost her declining ratings .

A just conflict which resulted in the removal of a vicious dictator and allowed some form of democracy in Argentina, but easy to moralise when you live in a country that thinks nothing of murdering environmental protesters.
To the Ukraine, the EU still hasn’t come up with a plan of action with regards sanctions yet again conflict on the EU’s doorstep and outside nations are at the forefront of trying to resolve it the Russians must be quaking in their boots when the richest country in Europe has contributed 500 helmets to the defence of Ukraine and blocked the sale of weaponery from other EU nations to the Ukraine. Trying to get 26 countries all with different interests to agree is never going to be easy but Putin will see this as a sign of weakness and exploit it as much as he can.

The weakness was abandoning the MAD strategy in favour of a strategy which effectively means marching the BAOR up to Russia’s borders.
The BAOR that was given around 48 hours life expectancy if Russia moved.That was with a lot more kit than they’ve got now and even a better rifle.
Just enough to get the civil defence bunkers up and running.
I was there when Able Archer went wrong in a big way and said rather them than me locked in there facing a long slow end if it kicks off.
Quaking indeed.
Which leaves the question why were the US and us so keen to close down those Minuteman silos and sign up to SALT and jump into bed with Gorbachev and Xiaoping.

115

Carryfast:

Mazzer2:

OwenMoney:

Monkey241:
No…Thatcher didn’t do the same with the Falklands. Ideology didn’t replace historical analysis

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk

She used the Falklands war to ’ shag flags ’ and to raise the nasty xenaphobic’s against the Argentinians to boost her declining ratings .

A just conflict which resulted in the removal of a vicious dictator and allowed some form of democracy in Argentina, but easy to moralise when you live in a country that thinks nothing of murdering environmental protesters.
To the Ukraine, the EU still hasn’t come up with a plan of action with regards sanctions yet again conflict on the EU’s doorstep and outside nations are at the forefront of trying to resolve it the Russians must be quaking in their boots when the richest country in Europe has contributed 500 helmets to the defence of Ukraine and blocked the sale of weaponery from other EU nations to the Ukraine. Trying to get 26 countries all with different interests to agree is never going to be easy but Putin will see this as a sign of weakness and exploit it as much as he can.

The weakness was abandoning the MAD strategy in favour of a strategy which effectively means marching the BAOR up to Russia’s borders.
The BAOR that was given around 48 hours life expectancy if Russia moved.That was with a lot more kit than they’ve got now and even a better rifle.
Just enough to get the civil defence bunkers up and running.
I was there when Able Archer went wrong in a big way and said rather them than me locked in there facing a long slow end if it kicks off.
Quaking indeed.
Which leaves the question why were the US and us so keen to close down those Minuteman silos and sign up to SALT and jump into bed with Gorbachev and Xiaoping.

If BAOR was slated for 48 hrs survival, please explain REFORGER.

I’ll have to question your currency on defence matters since BAOR hasn’t existed for about 30 years (it changed to BFG.

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116

The logical objective from here, is for Putin to capture the East regions upto the River, and then offer a peace for the West of Ukraine based upon them accepting what he’s already captured as forfeit.

It won’t matter if they accept that deal or not…

(1) If they reject it, Putin will simply put up a hard border down the river, and rigidly enforce it with a “Smiert Spionen” policy, like from his KGB days.

(2) If they accept the deal to save Kiev (which was never in danger) then Putin gets to keep all territory won, without any further sanctions, and indeed can argue that sanctions already in place - be overturned.

(3) If NATO continues to make noises about “capturing it back” - then a new cold war ensues, which will quickly become apparent that bloated, outmoded, and ineffective NATO cannot possibly win.

(4) Putin gets to try out some of his new hardware, if there are any attacks, perhaps even an invasion of Belarus being spoken of, but unlikely to succeed, as the troops in Belarus are already on stand-by for such an attack.

(5) Putin’s troops in East Ukraine - can round up the neo ■■■■ agitators there - at his leisure. These are the ones destroying local infrastucture, that the West likes to lie about being “False Flag Throwdowns” BY Putin…

(6) Western action in freezing so-called Russian assets, effectively prevents Russia from running up more debt abroad. A thus defaulted “debt” - gets written off, which is a PLUS in the Russian finances, hardly a “Punishment”!

(7) Western action in confiscating actual russian money (ie - simply nicking it!) - is given the cover story “London was subject to a massive cyber attack, where ■■ £millions were stolen from the banking system” when in fact money was merely moved out of Russian oligarch accounts, and into wherever the government here wants to put it, unlikely to become the “Brexit Dividend” or “Extra money for the NHS” mind you… More likely to be funneled to NATO, making them money launderers on top of their many other sins over the past 30 years when they shouldn’t have existed at all…

(8) Money in Ukraine, has likely been nicked by America, and blamed on yet another of these "“Massive Cyber Attacks” akin to the plot from that James Bond film “GoldenEye”…

(9) Biden’s America - has likely double-crossed Ukraine, taken their money for NATO intervention that is now not going to happen, but the “Sanctions” get to cover up an asset-stripping of the previous Kiev-run state, leaving them flat broke, and eventually with less than half the territory they started with.

(10) The West is satisfied, Putin is villified, but was beforehand anyways, and China is bankrolling BOTH sides, so won’t be making any complaints neither.

117

Winseer:
The logical objective from here, is for Putin to capture the East regions upto the River, and then offer a peace for the West of Ukraine based upon them accepting what he’s already captured as forfeit.

It won’t matter if they accept that deal or not…

(1) If they reject it, Putin will simply put up a hard border down the river, and rigidly enforce it with a “Smiert Spionen” policy, like from his KGB days.

(2) If they accept the deal to save Kiev (which was never in danger) then Putin gets to keep all territory won, without any further sanctions, and indeed can argue that sanctions already in place - be overturned.

(3) If NATO continues to make noises about “capturing it back” - then a new cold war ensues, which will quickly become apparent that bloated, outmoded, and ineffective NATO cannot possibly win.

(4) Putin gets to try out some of his new hardware, if there are any attacks, perhaps even an invasion of Belarus being spoken of, but unlikely to succeed, as the troops in Belarus are already on stand-by for such an attack.

(5) Putin’s troops in East Ukraine - can round up the neo ■■■■ agitators there - at his leisure. These are the ones destroying local infrastucture, that the West likes to lie about being “False Flag Throwdowns” BY Putin…

(6) Western action in freezing so-called Russian assets, effectively prevents Russia from running up more debt abroad. A thus defaulted “debt” - gets written off, which is a PLUS in the Russian finances, hardly a “Punishment”!

(7) Western action in confiscating actual russian money (ie - simply nicking it!) - is given the cover story “London was subject to a massive cyber attack, where ■■ £millions were stolen from the banking system” when in fact money was merely moved out of Russian oligarch accounts, and into wherever the government here wants to put it, unlikely to become the “Brexit Dividend” or “Extra money for the NHS” mind you… More likely to be funneled to NATO, making them money launderers on top of their many other sins over the past 30 years when they shouldn’t have existed at all…

(8) Money in Ukraine, has likely been nicked by America, and blamed on yet another of these "“Massive Cyber Attacks” akin to the plot from that James Bond film “GoldenEye”…

(9) Biden’s America - has likely double-crossed Ukraine, taken their money for NATO intervention that is now not going to happen, but the “Sanctions” get to cover up an asset-stripping of the previous Kiev-run state, leaving them flat broke, and eventually with less than half the territory they started with.

(10) The West is satisfied, Putin is villified, but was beforehand anyways, and China is bankrolling BOTH sides, so won’t be making any complaints neither.

It’s clear that Russia’s issue is NATO and stopping NATOs containment strategy which has too many uncomfortable parallels with 1941.
I’d doubt if Putin is even in control of events from the point when his generals decided enough.
Assuming NATO is Russias problem then by definition they won’t stop at Eastern Ukraine they’ll want to engage NATOs forces anywhere and everywhere of Russia’s choosing on Russia’s terms.
On that note might as well go for broke with a Blitzkrieg type operation in which Ukraine becomes an obstacle to be destroyed not occupied on the way to overrunning Western Europe.
Bearing in mind that his Atlantic and Mediterranean naval assets can turn that into a war on three fronts for western Europe.
With the choice of invading, or even just nuking, the UK by surface naval attack.
At which point China and NK shows it’s hand by reinforcing the invasion of Europe and blockading then invading Guam, Phillipines and Australia.
WW3 was always going to be a ■■■■■ and that’s why we even contemplated the MAD strategy let alone adopted it.
Until someone decided let’s abandon it and march on Russia’s border and get into bed with the CCP instead.

118

Well it would appear that we were all wrong and he has invaded, years of appeaseing a ruthless dictator by the western world and we are now surprised by his actions, the UN useless 2 out of the 5 top seats are held by dictatorships with no interst in anyone elses view other than their own interests. Biden on Radio 4 offering prayers to the Ukraine people yet to see a prayer that protects you from incoming firepower. This has been building for years Putin having given himself the power to rule until he decides to stand down only had to bide his time and see the West’s reaction to his every transgression of international law and to see that he could do what he wanted as there is no stomach in the West to stand up to dictators.
A sad day for western democracies who yet again shy away from tough decisions and expect someone else to solve the worlds problems while they just put their heads in the sand and hope the problem goes away

119

Kalibra cruise missiles on Ivano-Franivsk airport imgur.com/a/F6nUBiT

120

We have a number of Ukranians who work where I work, they are all in their twenties or early thirties and when we talk they are very vocal about Putin and this situation, they seem fiercely patriotic but strangely slightly less so when I ask why they are still here and not back home with a rifle in their hands preparing to repel the invaders?

It seems that it’s easy to be indignant as long as it’s foreign soldiers who are going to die to save your country.