Janos:
I am not sure when I have read anything as cretinous as this.
Most of the free…liberal democratic world has boycotted Russia…
Not exactly Nordstream 1 is still open.
Biden has refused to stop imports of Russian oil.
Raab is calling for ‘non Putin related’ Russian ‘investments’ to be taken off the list.
Last but not least Americans and Brits aren’t prepared to face mutually assured destruction to defend ourselves let alone Poland and Ukraine.
Basically Ukraine had been sold a lemon in NATO like all the rest.
If NATO had teeth we’d now be at war with Russia for hitting a prospective NATO member over its prospective membership, not that it would last long.
The truth is those of us who’d rather die on our feet facing a nuke flash than surrender on our knees are a dying breed.You’re around 40 years too late.
adam277:
Bigger war than he wanted? He knows Ukraine better than anyone on this forum.
Maybe, I am wrong but you dont become KGB and Leader of Russia without some brains.
It’s annoying how people often try to discredit peoples intellect.
No-one is saying he is stupid.
But when he started to roll into Ukraine I think all the commentators were surprised at the fight the Ukrainians have put up. Putin walked into Crimea without the level of resistance shown here. On paper he should have finished it all by now, but he hasn`t.
Like many long serving totalitarian leaders he has excised dissenting voices, he has no one honest enough to tell him “No”.
Russia is in no way the USSR. In those post Stalin days the Politburo would have ousted a failing leader, how much chance of that now?
adam277:
For example, when Russia was trying to take the Ukrainian power plant. No one was saying that Ukrainian were basically using it as a fortress.
What?
The Ukranians wouldnt be defending the power plant if it wasnt being attacked!
If they are sheltering behind strong walls, WTF wouldn`t they?
adam277:
It is important to remember we are only seeing one side of the conflict. What the state tells us. RT is banned. And a lot of pro russians news outlets are being supressed.
Also for whatever reason barely anyone is fact checking what the Ukrainian government says. Which is weird because information is a weapon and both sides are lying.
There are western journalists on the ground in Ukraine. They are free to move and report as they want. How many BBC or Sky or whatever are there with the Russian forces?
Even the Russians at home aren`t being told the truth of the invasion.
adam277:
Another interesting thing that is often not discussed is Ukraine is full of people who are pro russian.
They are marking targets for the Russians
Im sure there are some pro-Russian Ukranians. It is self evidently untrue that Ukraine isnt “full of them”.
If it was so, then Putin would have been in Kyiv by last Saturday
You are saying what you own eyes must be telling you is rubbish.
Ukraine isnt as free as us, but their elections are freer than in Russia. Their elections didnt bring in a pro-Russian Gov did it?
Juddian:
Interesting too that Ukrainians who disagreed with you would presumably leave you a beaten pulp, isn’t what totalitarians the world over do with dissidents who question the state narrative, examples of such behaviour often coming from the state enforcers in what were until two years ago presumed free democracies.
One thing I’ve learnt is the world is not black and white just shades of grey. Yet, some people still insist on seeing the world through absolutes.
Just to clarify one more time because some people have learning difficulties. I do not support Putin or Hitler or Mao or Genghis Khan.
I know some people are conditioned to believe only things the BBC and government tell them, but that doesnt mean I do.
A great book on war. Art of War by Sun Tzu. Well worth a read, some abridged reasons are quite readable.
Putin is the enemy of the west that is without a doubt. Even if he is an enemy we helped make.
Here is a fun task for some of you guys that I learnt at University. Find someone who on princicpal you completely disagree with. It could be someone like Putin or it could be even Hitler or Stalin. Then write an essay arguing for their cause; in particular why they are right.
Its a good exercise in contrarian objective thinking. It’s also a great way to understand someone you disagree with better.
What is my solution to the Ukraine war?
Well, we cant fight the Russians, we will all die. By all accounts they now have nukes that have 50x the yield of the TsarBomba. To put that in perspective one Russian nuke has the capability of destroying an area the size of France.
Sanctions - Ye we need to sanction Russia but not indiscriminate sanctions like we are doing now. Banning Russians diplomants from the UN and sending Ambassadors home is not the answer.
Those who think Putin will fall if we sanction Russia enough seriously underestimate his hold on the country. And like someone else said, Be careful what you wish for something worse can take its place. I.e. Libya and Gadaffi.
The answer is diplomacy. Give Russia assurances Ukraine can never join NATO. Promise to lift sanctions if Russia leaves Ukraine. While maybe letting Russia keep hold of Donetsk and Luhansk. Which has not been in Ukrainian hands for years anyway.
It will let Putin to be able to claim a victory at home while restoring peace to Ukraine. Will he take that deal? Hard to say. He could will cut off oil to the EU and start really hurting us in the pocket.
Franglais:
And Putin was a senior KGB officer under the Soviets, yes, but he certainly has had nothing to do with any Communist ideology for years. Dictator, pure and simple.
He is not a leader of the Russian people, although he is telling them he is. He and his cronies have robbed them blind,
Let’s get this right.You think that a KGB officer isn’t by definition a loyal Communist Party Member for life.Also that Communism isn’t by definition a dictatorship.
Also bearing in mind that China is still Russia’s main ally which Russia still helps to arm.
As for Putin being an isolated despot then how has he got Russian ‘parliamentary’ backing for every decree and the Russian military obviously isn’t a mutinous entity out to bring him down and refusing to decimate Ukraine and running over the border to join NATO forces against him.
While NATO obviously thinks that all those in control of Russia’s nuclear arsenal launch implementation are loyal enough to press the button on his order.
Cut the delusional rhetoric this isn’t Iraq.If you want to go up against Russia you have to be prepared to fight and probably die in the first few minutes for it.Or if not have wished that you had
Question for Mods - Is RT banned legally so that this board would be in trouble for posting any clips, no matter how short on any subject from a banned TV station like Sputnik and RT now are?
Even RT America, which had none other than William “Captain Kirk” Shatner on their books - have had their plug pulled, all their news staff laid off, and Shatner is apparently completing his current contract, before moving on (making some syndicated programmes, nothing to do with Ukraine, apparently)
Russians at home - would presumably get their info on the war from ALL their TV channels, not just the ones that do not broadcast outside of Russia…
So… One has to view this total sanctioning of Russian media - as rather suspect.
I’d say it looks like Totalitarian Censorship, where we cannot even find out what Russians at home think - because they will only be approached by the international anti-Russian press now, which speaks rather higher of Putin’s “Press Freedoms” he thereby permits in his own country… Such “Journalists” would only approach those minority who don’t actually support Putin, voted against him in their elections there, and are free to moan at “not their leader” exactly the same as we do with ours over in the West…
Who’s the hyppocrite here?
I’ll post some videos - if any Mod says it’s OK to do so…
Franglais:
But when he started to roll into Ukraine I think all the commentators were surprised at the fight the Ukrainians have put up. Putin walked into Crimea without the level of resistance shown here. On paper he should have finished it all by now, but he hasn`t.
I think people expected him to take Kyiv straight away for sure. But he hasnt.
Which is odd. Although he seems to be targeting access to the black sea and just keeping Kyiv busy as he slowly incircles it. While taking power plants at the same time. There is a tactic here, maybe someone who is better suited in miltary tactics can explain it.
The Ukranians wouldnt be defending the power plant if it wasnt being attacked!
If they are sheltering behind strong walls, WTF wouldn`t they?
Russians are giving Ukrainians a chance to surrender. Yet, the Ukrainian president is telling people never surrender. It’s like standing behind a nuclear bomb and saying “if you shoot me you kill us all”.
Even the Russians at home aren`t being told the truth of the invasion.
Totally agree.
I
m sure there are some pro-Russian Ukranians. It is self evidently untrue that Ukraine isnt “full of them”.
If it was so, then Putin would have been in Kyiv by last Saturday
You are saying what you own eyes must be telling you is rubbish.
I believe the pro russian population amounts to 3-6 million. There was a poll done somewhere, I’ll try to find it. There is plenty of evidence of pro Russian Ukrainans sabotaging Ukraine though. It’s been going on for the past 8 years. When I said ‘full of them’ I did not mean the majority are pro Russian.
Perhaps more publicity should be given to these “Ultra-Nationalists” (Let’s not call them Neo Nazis for today…) who will fight to their last, acting like Partisans in the areas the Russians have presumably already over-run…?
These people are likely to have antiquated weapons among them, and I wouldn’t put it past them to keep on attacking places outside of the media watch to keep on making anything Russian look bad…
Before this invasion even started, there were tales of atrocities coming out of the East of the country, with the local Pro Russians living there begging Putin for salvation from…
If this is all entirely made-up on Putin’s part, then there’s no reason why we have yet to see a full-scale battle with the Ukrainian forces, fully tooled up by the West already - get to grips with these “Rookie conscripts” that we are told are easy to capture, regret being a soldier, and of course are also being slaughtered 10 to one by the superior, but elusive UKrainian forces.
…At least that’s what the now polarized western media outlets - have been telling us.
No actual live battles as of yet, no actual live slaugtering documented, including this tale we have been told that some “Crack Russia Squad sent to assassinate Presidente” - were easily slaughtered themselves… Yeh right!! 
There’s a perfectly good reason as to why we shouldn’t trust the press at all…
adam277:
Franglais:
But when he started to roll into Ukraine I think all the commentators were surprised at the fight the Ukrainians have put up. Putin walked into Crimea without the level of resistance shown here. On paper he should have finished it all by now, but he hasn`t.
I think people expected him to take Kyiv straight away for sure. But he hasnt.
Which is odd. Although he seems to be targeting access to the black sea and just keeping Kyiv busy as he slowly incircles it. While taking power plants at the same time. There is a tactic here, maybe someone who is better suited in miltary tactics can explain it.
The Ukranians wouldnt be defending the power plant if it wasnt being attacked!
If they are sheltering behind strong walls, WTF wouldn`t they?
Russians are giving Ukrainians a chance to surrender. Yet, the Ukrainian president is telling people never surrender. It’s like standing behind a nuclear bomb and saying “if you shoot me you kill us all”.
Even the Russians at home aren`t being told the truth of the invasion.
Totally agree.
I
m sure there are some pro-Russian Ukranians. It is self evidently untrue that Ukraine isnt “full of them”.
If it was so, then Putin would have been in Kyiv by last Saturday
You are saying what you own eyes must be telling you is rubbish.
I believe the pro russian population amounts to 3-6 million. There was a poll done somewhere, I’ll try to find it. There is plenty of evidence of pro Russian Ukrainans sabotaging Ukraine though. It’s been going on for the past 8 years. When I said ‘full of them’ I did not mean the majority are pro Russian.
It’s obvious that Russia is using Ukraine as bait to create a narrative of NATO being the aggressor that started WW3.
It’s equally obvious that China is pulling his strings.
If NATO thought it had the backing on the home fronts of US and UK the Northern Hemisphere would already by now be a pile of radioactive rubble.Because the Ukraine non member excuse doesn’t cut it.
It will probably be Moldova and Romania on the list next.
My bet is NATO still won’t bite.
Then China will also make its move because at that point they’ll know for sure that NATO isn’t up for WW3.America will then sell Europe out for terms.
My bet is the so called Brit nuke deterrent has already been handed over to total US control which might as well be Chinese in the form of Biden.
Again hopefully I’m wrong we’ve now reached if not past the point where NATO has to put up or shut up.
Juddian:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1W5o3Xz5OI
A light hearted news broadcast.
I’ll raise you
1 let’s ally with Austria and Turkey to go to war with Russia in THE Ukraine.
Then 2 let’s ally with France and Russia to go to war against Germany and Austria and Turkey because a Serb Nationalist shot the guvnor of Austria.
Then 3 Germany let’s ally with Russia to invade Poland.
Then 4 Germany we’ve changed our minds let’s keep Poland but let’s fight Russia again.
Bearing in mind if we’d have stayed out of 1 and 2 then 3 and 4 wouldn’t have happened.
adam277:
Franglais:
But when he started to roll into Ukraine I think all the commentators were surprised at the fight the Ukrainians have put up. Putin walked into Crimea without the level of resistance shown here. On paper he should have finished it all by now, but he hasn`t.
I think people expected him to take Kyiv straight away for sure. But he hasnt.
Which is odd. Although he seems to be targeting access to the black sea and just keeping Kyiv busy as he slowly incircles it. While taking power plants at the same time. There is a tactic here, maybe someone who is better suited in miltary tactics can explain it.
The Ukranians wouldnt be defending the power plant if it wasnt being attacked!
If they are sheltering behind strong walls, WTF wouldn`t they?
Russians are giving Ukrainians a chance to surrender. Yet, the Ukrainian president is telling people never surrender. It’s like standing behind a nuclear bomb and saying “if you shoot me you kill us all”.
Even the Russians at home aren`t being told the truth of the invasion.
Totally agree.
I
m sure there are some pro-Russian Ukranians. It is self evidently untrue that Ukraine isnt “full of them”.
If it was so, then Putin would have been in Kyiv by last Saturday
You are saying what you own eyes must be telling you is rubbish.
I believe the pro russian population amounts to 3-6 million. There was a poll done somewhere, I’ll try to find it. There is plenty of evidence of pro Russian Ukrainans sabotaging Ukraine though. It’s been going on for the past 8 years. When I said ‘full of them’ I did not mean the majority are pro Russian.
Putin hasnt taken Kyiv straight off as expected by many, because he met resistance far stronger than expected. It isnt a clever tactical move, it`s a ■■■■ up.
adam277:
Russians are giving Ukrainians a chance to surrender. Yet, the Ukrainian president is telling people never surrender. It’s like standing behind a nuclear bomb and saying “if you shoot me you kill us all”.
You`re surely joking…The Russians are being generous in allowing the Ukrainians to live, so they can be invaded and occupied?
“Surrender or die”…some ■■■■■■■ choice.
adam277:
I believe the pro russian population amounts to 3-6 million. There was a poll done somewhere, I’ll try to find it. There is plenty of evidence of pro Russian Ukrainans sabotaging Ukraine though. It’s been going on for the past 8 years. When I said ‘full of them’ I did not mean the majority are pro Russian.
So, maybe 10% of the population are pro-Russian? So what?
adam277:
The answer is diplomacy. Give Russia assurances Ukraine can never join NATO. Promise to lift sanctions if Russia leaves Ukraine. While maybe letting Russia keep hold of Donetsk and Luhansk. Which has not been in Ukrainian hands for years anyway.
It will let Putin to be able to claim a victory at home while restoring peace to Ukraine. Will he take that deal? Hard to say. He could will cut off oil to the EU and start really hurting us in the pocket.
We have had well used diplomatic links with Russia for decades. Putin ignored all of those routes and launched an illegal invasion!
What right has the west to say to Ukrainians what they can or cant do in their own country? If a thief takes away a million quid, then should you allow him to keep half if he gives you half back? Reward a big land theft with a smaller land gift and what will happen next? That isnt diplomacy, that is surrendering to blackmail.
Immoral, as were giving away someone elses land and freedom, and doomed in the long term as it encourages more of the same.
(And just been approved by the Russian deputies that any mention of “war” could mean 15 years in clink.)
youtube.com/watch?v=qYVsKoQXATY
youtube.com/watch?v=vj1IIlqGeu8
Well worth watching.
There was a chance for peace and de-escalation. Instead we chose to expand NATO when the warsaw pact ended.
adam277:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYVsKoQXATY
youtube.com/watch?v=vj1IIlqGeu8
Well worth watching.
There was a chance for peace and de-escalation. Instead we chose to expand NATO when the warsaw pact ended.
It was a deliberate change in NATO defence strategy from MAD to containment.It was no secret.
The flaw in the plan was not thinking through what if Russia goes with a preemptive use of strategic nukes strategy.So now NATO is sitting with all that hardware on Russia’s borders which can’t do anything because if it fires a shot in anger we still get nuked at home in reply.
I’m even more convinced that Russia is using Ukraine as bait in that regard.
If we don’t bite then he’ll threaten what he sees as other strategic buffer states using the same strategy.At some point the US will have to admit that it won’t subject the US homeland to risk of taking a devastating nuclear strike in pointless defence of Poland etc and therefore at best they have to declare as DMZ which they should all have done from the start.
As for us the choice is still eventually surrender to the Russia/China axis or take out the Northern Hemisphere.Again the commitment of the US is the problem so long as it thinks it can cut a deal.
While it’s obvious that we never ‘won’ the Cold War against Communism it just evolved economically and militarily in the knowledge that the US wouldn’t take a hit at home let alone MAD, ‘for the European team’'.
Maybe Trump would have been the exception and that’s why they had to remove him in a rigged ‘election’.I doubt if we’d all still be here discussing it if not.
As for me ironically I think it all smells of defeat they are already preparing us for ‘food shortages’ and rationing as China stakes it’s claim to Europe’s food resources.Obviously including Ukrain’s which nohopeskey was already flogging off to them.
There’s no sense to all this IF the target is beyond merely Ukraine. There’s definitely no point in NATO continuing neither, if they are supposed to prevent any or all such invasions happening in the first place.
The west, meanwhile - continues to short the ruble on the currency market, whilst the East, most likely China and India - continue to buy up both the Ruble and Precious metals across the board, which actually suggests the Eastern currencies including the Ruble are fundamentally stronger, based on transition metals rather than precious metals alone.
Bear in mind that the Lanthenides are technically included in both categories here, with China owning an awful lot, whilst Western economies - dare not mine what little they have, due to the toxicitiy and pollution dangers…
Think of having a gold mine with unlimited gold in it, BUT it comes alongside a radioactive, toxic, heavy metal bi-product…
Add good old Western H&S factors, and you’ve essentially banned yourself from the base from not so much your money, still very Fiat in nature - but rather future currency, which unlike Bitcoin - can be to have and hold, rather than instantly destroyable either with a delete key, mouse click, or maybe sledgehammer…
Winseer:
There’s no sense to all this IF the target is beyond merely Ukraine. There’s definitely no point in NATO continuing neither, if they are supposed to prevent any or all such invasions happening in the first place.
We’ll only know for sure if/when Russia moves onto NATO turf.
My guess is that at best the old WP states would prefer an old Yugoslav type arrangement with Russia but declared as DMZs, over an effectively Anglo v Slav conventional war fought on their turf.
At worse it’s all moot if the Northern Hemisphere gets taken out in a nuclear exchange.
If I was Poland etc that’s the deal I’d already be talking about with Russia.
With what’s happened to Ukraine the NATO containment strategy is history either way and rightly so being an unfit for purpose defence strategy.
Carryfast:
Franglais:
The states formerly occupied by Soviet puppet governments, and held down militarily by Soviet foreign troops when they showed a wish for independence? Those states?
They were once Soviet buffer states, but are largely becoming independent. Why should they be held hostage by Putin as some sort of human shield. They have a right to self determination. They should not be given to Putin, they have a right to exist other than just sacrificial pawns, so Putin can look a strong man.
These are free states choosing to align with the EU and NATO rather than the ex-Soviets.
It is their choice!
NATO isn`t sending armed columns in and shelling civilians!
And Putin was a senior KGB officer under the Soviets, yes, but he certainly has had nothing to do with any Communist ideology for years. Dictator, pure and simple.
He is not a leader of the Russian people, although he is telling them he is. He and his cronies have robbed them blind, his military and security spending keeps them poor.
He needed a small war to justify the continued hardships for the normal citizens. He has got a bigger war than he wanted.
No the states which an understandably traumatised paranoid Russia saw as buffers against future potential aggression from the West.
The states which Russia voluntarily gave back on the understanding that NATO wouldn’t then move in.
Great so you agree that not only should NATO honour its moral duty to Ukraine the Russian people and forces are also ready for regime change and liberation by NATO forces who they’ll welcome with open arms.
Bearing in mind that Putin only gives the orders if you’re right hell just be faced with a mass mutiny when he orders WW3 to kick off.
So what are you waiting for get on with it send NATO in and see what happens.
The fact is even NATO doesn’t share your deluded ideas.Its basically a paper tiger that’s totally dependent on the US and UK publics’ willingness to commit MAD suicide over internal Slavic squabbles.These days they’d probably even prefer to surrender themselves to the Russian/Chinese axis of evil.
theguardian.com/world/2022/m … in-ukraine
Contrary to the western and Franglais’ deluded propaganda it’s NATO that has no way out.
Either it goes all in now or Russia wont stop at Ukraine.Containment strategy that ended well.
Whoops Apocalypse.
I can see why Putin was a bit ■■■■■■ with Ukraine wanting to join NATO on their border.,.a bit like Wales joining the Warsaw pact. 
He could have went about preventing it with a bit of diplomacy and bribery instead of going in mob.handed.
An agreement that if they stayed neutral he would invest heavily into the country and make some kind of mutual trade agreement.
Too late now though,.even if there is a peace agreement after all this,.which I doubt, the wounds will be open for a generation from Ukraine’s pov.
Franglais’ deluded ideas remind me of this.
youtu.be/Ye9J4nQrz5s
robroy:
I can see why Putin was a bit ■■■■■■ with Ukraine wanting to join NATO on their border.,.a bit like Wales joining the Warsaw pact.
He could have went about preventing it with a bit of diplomacy and bribery instead of going in mob.handed.
An agreement that if they stayed neutral he would invest heavily into the country and make some kind of mutual trade agreement.
Too late now though,.even if there is a peace agreement after all this,.which I doubt, the wounds will be open for a generation from Ukraine’s pov.
This is all about Truss and Bozo and Biden refusing to back down by refusing to negotiate a NATO climb down and pull out from the old buffer states.
Ukraine just thought that NATO would then jump all in for them.
This is way worse than JFK v Kruschev.
I’d put less than evens odds on it ending up with us getting nuked or at least air naval attack.Doubt if America will be up for retaliation to that and Russia knows it and moot for us at that point anyway.
Or it could all be a staged act in which we’ve already surrendered but they have to make it look like we put up a fight.
Going to be a long wait to load driver . Kharkiv.
