Juddian:
Best of luck with the invasion of Russia, hope you have better luck than everyone else who tried it in the past.
You will be joining the politicians and meejia hexperts tooling themselves up and parachuting in yourself?
To be fair Russia and China are always going to be the neighbours from hell.Its not a new thing.They aren’t our friends.
As for the invasion of Russia why that’s what nukes are for on the basis that we know we can’t beat them.But surrender would be worse than not taking them out with us.
The problem in this case has been caused by all those who lost their bottle for that strategy.
But equally sickened by the pathetic propaganda related to the ‘poor Ukranians’.
Let’s just say that going for WW3 isn’t going make things any better for them or us and NATO knows it so why did the government tell them to fight.
War with Russia means good night Vienna that’s all she wrote, for all of us.So they should all stop whining and get on with it if that’s what they want and that includes NATO.
NATO caused all this egged on by idiots like Truss and nohopeskey now they can finish it.
Bunch of w …ers all of em.
A very simplified analogy. Not very original either.
Nobody is at war with Russia.
If no war scenario is implied then why did NATO forces move in where Russia’s forces moved out.Exactly what is the potential mission and target of those forces.
We know this is a region of buffers seperating two potential and historic enemies so DMZ is the obvious solution.Bearing in mind Russia had requested and been given guarantees in that regard.
Too late now prepare for some instant sunshine if/when it kicks off.
As it stands Russia has an incentive to escalate destruction and atrocities against Ukraine as bait to draw NATO into a confrontation sooner or later.If that doesn’t work a move on Moldova and Romania is probably next on the target list.
It’s a perfect example of be careful what you wish for.
Juddian:
Best of luck with the invasion of Russia, hope you have better luck than everyone else who tried it in the past.
You will be joining the politicians and meejia hexperts tooling themselves up and parachuting in yourself?
As I have distant family in the area, if the call to arms came, I would be compelled to go. Like the Ukranian people are telling you…via the meeja…it is them now, who will be next? You just lie down, and let Russian-Sino expansion roll over you.
So why are you calling for a pointless conventional fight.
As opposed to the nuclear deterrent to be invoked just as Russia has done.
The fact is JFK never mobilised conventional forces to take on Kruschev.
Everyone across Europe and in the US didn’t know if we were going to see the next day if Kruschev didn’t back down.Just another day and the price of freedom.
You’re logic makes no sense.
This isn’t 1914 and even then we obviously fought on the wrong side.
Janos:
As for the US bombing Japanese civilians. Exactly how many young American men would you like to of seen killed before the fanatical Japanese capitulated?
It’s amusing how you justify nuking major population centres while condeming Putin for air strikes.
Christ there are some on here who should be sending their CV to Russia Today or the kremlin’s propaganda unit never has the phrase “Useful idiots” been so apt. Putin has caused trouble from the moment he took power with his quite open statement of intentions to restore Russia to it’s glory and power of the Soviet Union era which included reclaiming the borders of the Soviet Union. What part of Chechyna did NATO want? Regardless of who Ukraine belonged to even 20 years ago it is quite clear that they don’t want to belong to Russia now in the same way the majority of former Warsaw Pact countries turned their back on Russia as soon as they had the opportunity. Putin models himself on Stalin just look up how many people Stalin killed, makes Hitler look an amateur in the dictators top ten chart of death rates.
Mazzer2:
Christ there are some on here who should be sending their CV to Russia Today or the kremlin’s propaganda unit never has the phrase “Useful idiots” been so apt.
Some of us just think objectively.
How can you hope to beat an enemy if your unwilling to see the the issue from the enemies perspective?
I dont think anyone here is saying Putin was right to invade Ukraine.
At worst people pointing out the failures in diplomacy on the side of the west that lead to this war.
Mazzer2:
Christ there are some on here who should be sending their CV to Russia Today or the kremlin’s propaganda unit never has the phrase “Useful idiots” been so apt.
Some of us just think objectively.
How can you hope to beat an enemy if your unwilling to see the the issue from the enemies perspective?
I dont think anyone here is saying Putin was right to invade Ukraine.
At worst people pointing out the failures in diplomacy on the side of the west that lead to this war.
Which is what I pointed out earlier only to have that well reknowned expert on all things he knows nothing about Carryfast say I was talking ■■■■■■■■. You don’t need to see things from your enemys objective to beat him, understand his intentions and his end aim and how you intend to stop him achieving that will enable you to beat him.
Explain Putin’s grievances? Apart from his hurt ego he doesn’t want NATO next door to him but has no problem with the Russian army being next door to NATO which it will be when he finally defeats the Ukraine.
Time moves on Russia is never going to be a superpower in the true sense of the word again partly down to it’s inability to run it’s economy in a manner that enriches the country, who has been running the country for the last 22 years as it’s economy has gone downhill?
When things are not going well at home pick a fight to distract your population and whip up misplaced nationalism, rule number one from the dictators handbook to being a meglomaniac according to Stalin, Hitler and Galtieri to name a few
Mazzer2:
Christ there are some on here who should be sending their CV to Russia Today or the kremlin’s propaganda unit never has the phrase “Useful idiots” been so apt. Putin has caused trouble from the moment he took power with his quite open statement of intentions to restore Russia to it’s glory and power of the Soviet Union era which included reclaiming the borders of the Soviet Union. What part of Chechyna did NATO want? Regardless of who Ukraine belonged to even 20 years ago it is quite clear that they don’t want to belong to Russia now in the same way the majority of former Warsaw Pact countries turned their back on Russia.
It’s clear that I’m closer to the Kaiser and Adolf on the issue of zb hole Commy Russia than Putin.
But without the phsycopathic tendencies of Adolf.
If we can possibly avoid a war then I’ll go the extra mile.
If not then JFKs method of dealing with Kruschev is the only option open to us since at least 1960.Not try to take a knife to a gun fight on Russia’s terms and turf.
So what is NATO waiting for go for it but at least let us see those stinking Russian scum get nuked before they nuke us.
For Putin from NATO with extreme prejudice.
As I said we joined the wrong side in 1914.
Bring it on the stinking Russian Commy POS.
So much for the CV.
adam277:
Some of us just think objectively.
How can you hope to beat an enemy if your unwilling to see the the issue from the enemies perspective?
I dont think anyone here is saying Putin was right to invade Ukraine.
At worst people pointing out the failures in diplomacy on the side of the west that lead to this war.
Is Putin seeing things from the perspective of Ukraine? Y`know wanting to make their own choices for themselves?
The “failure of diplomacy” being the failure of Ukraine to do the bidding of Putin?
A failure to give to a bully?
adam277:
Firstly, Putin is not purposefully targeting civilians. Yea, attacks have happened, but they always happen in War.
Bit like saying “there may be casualties in armed robberies”…
Robbery is illegal, this war is not necessary.
Deaths are due only to Putin and his moves.
adam277:
All Russia wants is not to have NATO on its borders. Which is reasonable.
Putin`s invasion has proved that NATO is more necessary now than ever. Just ask Finland and Sweden.
Who has NATO invaded?
Who has Russia invaded?
Now…Who is the aggressor here?
Franglais:
Who has NATO invaded?
Who has Russia invaded?
Now…Who is the aggressor here?
Since when was invasion the definition of aggression.
That would make us the aggressor in WW2 and GW 2 and Afghanistan.
How did NATO move into Russia’s former buffer states and more importantly why.
The fact is NATO expansion and intended expansion towards Russia where Russia has pulled back from is itself a form of aggression.
But as we’ve seen also pointless because ultimately the nuke deterrent still kicks in either way.
Your laughable justifications are moot now anyway.
It’s clear that the west had no intention of ending the Cold War it just changed strategy.
So now you’ve got the result in Ukraine and potentially elsewhere what are you waiting for.Go for it you’ve got your War and now relying on bs excuses to not go through with the predictable results of that strategy.
What’s the difference between Russia attacking a prospective NATO state because of that stated prospective membership or a member state.
But a conventional response to a nuclear threat is like taking a knife to a gunfight either way.
By definition WW3 means thermo nuclear mutually assured destruction.What are you waiting for.Get on with it.We could easily kick things off with a big airstrike on that bait convoy and any other Russian forces in Ukraine and taking out Russia’s black sea fleet and Crimea, by air attack.
I’m up for it and what happens next are you for all your big talk.
Janos:
As for the US bombing Japanese civilians. Exactly how many young American men would you like to of seen killed before the fanatical Japanese capitulated?
It’s amusing how you justify nuking major population centres while condeming Putin for air strikes.
You can never ‘justify’ it as such., but get real, Japan fought a dirty ruthless war, fight to death, never surrender,.execution of pow.s, the Americans fell foul of this type of policy big style in the assaults on the Japanese held Pacific islands, bloody battles in Iwo Jima , Okinawa and the like.
For the US to follow that and make D day type landings and airborne assaults on the Japanese mainland., it would have been absolute slaughter.
So they weighed up the options rightly or wrongly, mass killings of our own troops, or mass killings of Japanese nationals, unfortunately mostly civilians.
It was left to history to decide if it was justifiable.
As for the US facing war crimes, one side’s war criminal is the other side’s ‘hero’.
Franglais:
Who has NATO invaded?
Who has Russia invaded?
Now…Who is the aggressor here?
Since when was invasion the definition of aggression.
That would make us the aggressor in WW2 and GW 2 and Afghanistan.
How did NATO move into Russia’s former buffer states and more importantly why.
The fact is NATO expansion and intended expansion towards Russia where Russia has pulled back from is itself a form of aggression.
But as we’ve seen also pointless because ultimately the nuke deterrent still kicks in either way.
Your laughable justifications are moot now anyway.
It’s clear that the west had no intention of ending the Cold War it just changed strategy.
So now you’ve got the result in Ukraine and potentially elsewhere what are you waiting for.Go for it you’ve got your War and now relying on bs excuses to not go through with the predictable results of that strategy.
What’s the difference between Russia attacking a prospective NATO state because of that stated prospective membership or a member state.
But a conventional response to a nuclear threat is like taking a knife to a gunfight either way.
By definition WW3 means thermo nuclear mutually assured destruction.What are you waiting for.Get on with it.We could easily kick things off with a big airstrike on that bait convoy and any other Russian forces in Ukraine and taking out Russia’s black sea fleet and Crimea, by air attack.
I’m up for it and what happens next are you for all your big talk.
Carryfast:
That would make us the aggressor in WW2 and GW 2 and Afghanistan
MAD…
And not “mutually assured destruction”
Carryfast:
How did NATO move into Russia’s former buffer states and more importantly why.
The states formerly occupied by Soviet puppet governments, and held down militarily by Soviet foreign troops when they showed a wish for independence? Those states?
They were once Soviet buffer states, but are largely becoming independent. Why should they be held hostage by Putin as some sort of human shield. They have a right to self determination. They should not be given to Putin, they have a right to exist other than just sacrificial pawns, so Putin can look a strong man.
These are free states choosing to align with the EU and NATO rather than the ex-Soviets. It is their choice!
NATO isn`t sending armed columns in and shelling civilians!
And Putin was a senior KGB officer under the Soviets, yes, but he certainly has had nothing to do with any Communist ideology for years. Dictator, pure and simple.
He is not a leader of the Russian people, although he is telling them he is. He and his cronies have robbed them blind, his military and security spending keeps them poor.
He needed a small war to justify the continued hardships for the normal citizens. He has got a bigger war than he wanted.
Janos:
As for the US bombing Japanese civilians. Exactly how many young American men would you like to of seen killed before the fanatical Japanese capitulated?
It’s amusing how you justify nuking major population centres while condeming Putin for air strikes.
You can never ‘justify’ it as such., but get real, Japan fought a dirty ruthless war, fight to death, never surrender,.execution of pow.s, the Americans fell foul of this type of policy big style in the assaults on the Japanese held Pacific islands, bloody battles in Iwo Jima , Okinawa and the like.
For the US to follow that and make D day type landings and airborne assaults on the Japanese mainland., it would have been absolute slaughter.
So they weighed up the options rightly or wrongly, mass killings of our own troops, or mass killings of Japanese nationals, unfortunately mostly civilians.
It was left to history to decide if it was justifiable.
As for the US facing war crimes, one side’s war criminal is the other side’s ‘hero’.
I knew someone at junior school who’s Dad died in the 1960s as a result of long term health effects caused by Jap mistreatment when he was a POW.They treated civilians even worse.
I always said those two nukes should been 4 preferably more.
Also my Mum lost a young cousin and an Aunt to German bombing I’ve always said the only bit Harris got wrong was that 4,000 lb cookies carried by Lancasters should have been configured as parachute mines.
War is what it is.Its why we need to go the extra mile to avoid it and NATO has zb’d up big time in that with its suicidal borderline aggressive containment defence strategy.
Too late now but notice big talking Franglais’ doesn’t seem be ready for action to match his rhetoric.A bit like NATO having led Ukraine to the slaughter.
Bigger war than he wanted? He knows Ukraine better than anyone on this forum.
Maybe, I am wrong but you dont become KGB and Leader of Russia without some brains.
It’s annoying how people often try to discredit peoples intellect. For example, for all of Boris Johnson’s flaws he is not an idiot. As many claim.
It is important to remember we are only seeing one side of the conflict. What the state tells us. RT is banned. And a lot of pro russians news outlets are being supressed.
Also for whatever reason barely anyone is fact checking what the Ukrainian government says. Which is weird because information is a weapon and both sides are lying.
For example, when Russia was trying to take the Ukrainian power plant. No one was saying that Ukrainian were basically using it as a fortress.
“Russian troops had tried to enter the city in tanks and seize the plant, but residents and workers were seen congregating around the plant and its surrounding roads on Wednesday.”
Now maybe I am a cynic but if I was a Ukrainian this is what I’d do because if they could get Russia to attack the plant then it may get an international response.
Also lets not forget China has refused to sanction Russia, and is boycotting anything that shows support for Ukraine. India is not sanctioning Russia, Same with Pakistan, and a lot of Africa and basically all of the middle east.
The sanctions could well damage us more than they damage Russia. Why? Because it turns a reliance of oil from Russia into a reliance on oil to the middle east who now has us by the balls.
adam277:
Bigger war than he wanted? He knows Ukraine better than anyone on this forum.
Maybe, I am wrong but you dont become KGB and Leader of Russia without some brains.
It’s annoying how people often try to discredit peoples intellect. For example, for all of Boris Johnson’s flaws he is not an idiot. As many claim.
It is important to remember we are only seeing one side of the conflict. What the state tells us. RT is banned. And a lot of pro russians news outlets are being supressed.
Also for whatever reason barely anyone is fact checking what the Ukrainian government says. Which is weird because information is a weapon and both sides are lying.
For example, when Russia was trying to take the Ukrainian power plant. No one was saying that Ukrainian were basically using it as a fortress.
“Russian troops had tried to enter the city in tanks and seize the plant, but residents and workers were seen congregating around the plant and its surrounding roads on Wednesday.”
Now maybe I am a cynic but if I was a Ukrainian this is what I’d do because if they could get Russia to attack the plant then it may get an international response.
Also lets not forget China has refused to sanction Russia, and is boycotting anything that shows support for Ukraine. India is not sanctioning Russia, Same with Pakistan, and a lot of Africa and basically all of the middle east.
The sanctions could well damage us more than they damage Russia. Why? Because it turns a reliance of oil from Russia into a reliance on oil to the middle east who now has us by the balls.
I am not sure when I have read anything as cretinous as this.
Most of the free…liberal democratic world has boycotted Russia.
I think perhaps you may of missed those other bastions of freedom, North Korea and Cuba, and perhaps Venezuela off your list of countries we should be inspired by.
Its comforting to think that if you dared utter this nonsense in the presence of any Ukranians, you would be lucky to walk away.
Franglais:
The states formerly occupied by Soviet puppet governments, and held down militarily by Soviet foreign troops when they showed a wish for independence? Those states?
They were once Soviet buffer states, but are largely becoming independent. Why should they be held hostage by Putin as some sort of human shield. They have a right to self determination. They should not be given to Putin, they have a right to exist other than just sacrificial pawns, so Putin can look a strong man.
These are free states choosing to align with the EU and NATO rather than the ex-Soviets. It is their choice!
NATO isn`t sending armed columns in and shelling civilians!
And Putin was a senior KGB officer under the Soviets, yes, but he certainly has had nothing to do with any Communist ideology for years. Dictator, pure and simple.
He is not a leader of the Russian people, although he is telling them he is. He and his cronies have robbed them blind, his military and security spending keeps them poor.
He needed a small war to justify the continued hardships for the normal citizens. He has got a bigger war than he wanted.
No the states which an understandably traumatised paranoid Russia saw as buffers against future potential aggression from the West.
The states which Russia voluntarily gave back on the understanding that NATO wouldn’t then move in.
Great so you agree that not only should NATO honour its moral duty to Ukraine the Russian people and forces are also ready for regime change and liberation by NATO forces who they’ll welcome with open arms.
Bearing in mind that Putin only gives the orders if you’re right hell just be faced with a mass mutiny when he orders WW3 to kick off.
So what are you waiting for get on with it send NATO in and see what happens.
The fact is even NATO doesn’t share your deluded ideas.Its basically a paper tiger that’s totally dependent on the US and UK publics’ willingness to commit MAD suicide over internal Slavic squabbles.These days they’d probably even prefer to surrender themselves to the Russian/Chinese axis of evil.
adam277:
Its comforting to think that if you dared utter this nonsense in the presence of any Ukranians, you would be lucky to walk away.
Because Ukraine jails opposition leaders asnd journalists like Russia?
Who benefits from Russia sanctions?
China, they can still trade with Russia and negotiate better deals. While still freely trading with the west.
Middle East. Who in particular Iran and Saudi Arabia who are hugely benefiting from increased oil revenues.
I am going to stop explaining my position. If you think I am a Putin supporter fine.
If you think its fine that we are going to have an even worse cost of living crisis thanks to these sanctions. That are going to hurt us as well as Russia thats great. Personally, I think the logic of sanctioning Russia because even if it hurts us it will hurt them more is ■■■■■■■ stupid.
Interesting too that Ukrainians who disagreed with you would presumably leave you a beaten pulp, isn’t what totalitarians the world over do with dissidents who question the state narrative, examples of such behaviour often coming from the state enforcers in what were until two years ago presumed free democracies.