JeffA:
Treachery? Thats like saying it was treachery to arrest Peter Sutcliffe. Boris was a lying incompetent unfit for the job and got exactly what he deserved. The fact liz truss is even worse doesnt make him Gladstone.
I didn’t say it did…did I?
The irrefutable fact of the matter is,.whether you me or Joe Bloggs approve or disapprove, or love him or despise him, .the Tories only got in because of Johnson and his personality and arguable charisma.
People are that shallow these days, as I said beforewith the latter.
I think him being up against a very unpopular labour leader in corbyn and the single issue of brexit rather than any massive charisma on boris’s part. The country was pig sick of him in a couple of years.
That is all very confusing though isn`t it?
Johnson was partly pro EU although he got paid for writing anti-Eu nonsense in the rags. He only jumped firmly “leave” just before the campaign.
Corbyn was largely anti-EU although Labour, more than the Tories, were remain.
He did have a hostile UK press of course, just as Johnson had them largely on his side.
Yep, Corbyn was unpopular you`re right.
Johnson has always IMHO been great at winning elections. Really very good at that.
Rubbish in the jobs he was elected to, but always having a load of good excuses why it wasn`t his fault afterwards.
As PM he just kept on campaigning and givng pep talks. He never did any serious planning. A long list of ambitions and targets, but no plan on how to achieve them, just tell the minions to “do it”.
JeffA:
Treachery? Thats like saying it was treachery to arrest Peter Sutcliffe. Boris was a lying incompetent unfit for the job and got exactly what he deserved. The fact liz truss is even worse doesnt make him Gladstone.
I didn’t say it did…did I?
The irrefutable fact of the matter is,.whether you me or Joe Bloggs approve or disapprove, or love him or despise him, .the Tories only got in because of Johnson and his personality and arguable charisma.
People are that shallow these days, as I said beforewith the latter.
I think him being up against a very unpopular labour leader in corbyn and the single issue of brexit rather than any massive charisma on boris’s part. The country was pig sick of him in a couple of years.
Yep Corbyn was a good asset for the Tories ironically , but Boris’s ‘style’ did turn a few Labour voter heads, maybe those heads were also pro Brexit , who knows?.., but it was obvious that Boris was popular with a lot of people pre election, hence the unprecedented and landslide majority.
Whether your last sentence is accurate is both arguable and open to opinion, but I think the ‘Partygate’ sheep who listened to the media b/s were a lot more vocal than those who simply didn’t give a toss, as there were far more important issues to face,… but it gave the Boris haters a vehicle and a sucessful platform to get rid if him,.as the frenzy built up.
The latest example of this type of thing ,. …(ok granted on a far MUCH more trivial issue ) illustrates my point, …
There presently seems to be some media based, (both social and mainstream) vendetta against Schofield and Holly W, because they allegedly jumped the queue at the Queen’s lying in state.
Most of us,.(and I’d go as far as to say the vast majority) really could not give two penny toss, but it has got to the stage where it is on every news feed,.and there are even petitions out for them to lose their jobs resulting from this vendetta from the same type of ‘partygate’ media led sheep
Unbelievably they still.could yet lose their over paid jobs because of all this b/s, .whereas the silent majority are just that…silent.
Funny old country/world where vocal minorities rule the roost in the long run eh?
I and the family will vote none of the above at the next election…all the parties have shafted the working man since the 1960s it is always jam tomorrow or some other slogan ,labour started the downfall of our country with Blier when they take over from this lot they will finish off the country …but not with my vote barstewards
robroy:
Yep Corbyn was a good asset for the Tories ironically , but Boris’s ‘style’ did turn a few Labour voter heads, maybe those heads were also pro Brexit , who knows?.., but it was obvious that Boris was popular with a lot of people pre election, hence the unprecedented and landslide majority.
Whether your last sentence is accurate is both arguable and open to opinion, but I think the ‘Partygate’ sheep who listened to the media b/s were a lot more vocal than those who simply didn’t give a toss, as there were far more important issues to face,… but it gave the Boris haters a vehicle and a sucessful platform to get rid if him,.as the frenzy built up.
The latest example of this type of thing ,. …(ok granted on a far MUCH more trivial issue ) illustrates my point, …
There presently seems to be some media based, (both social and mainstream) vendetta against Schofield and Holly W, because they allegedly jumped the queue at the Queen’s lying in state.
Most of us,.(and I’d go as far as to say the vast majority) really could not give two penny toss, but it has got to the stage where it is on every news feed,.and there are even petitions out for them to lose their jobs resulting from this vendetta from the same type of ‘partygate’ media led sheep
Unbelievably they still.could yet lose their over paid jobs because of all this b/s, .whereas the silent majority are just that…silent.
Funny old country/world where vocal minorities rule the roost in the long run eh?
Johnson was undoubtedly a very popular individual a couple of years ago. And for many years he was very successful at winning elections.
But “Partygate” does seem to have changed the publics opinion of him. I would say it opened their eyes to the true nature of the man, rather than the "image" he projected. [yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar ... about-lock](https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/04/21/eight-10-britons-say-boris-johnson-lied-about-lock) [inews.co.uk/news/politics/sue-g ... gn-1650603](https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/sue-gray-partygate-report-boris-johnson-resign-1650603) [bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ygate-poll](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-30/50-believe-wrong-people-being-held-accountable-over-partygate-poll) His fans are still vocal about getting him back, but being vocal, as you say, doesnt make a majority.
If you ask people what they think, so they are no longer silent, they did seem to say he was a liar and should go.
robroy:
Yep Corbyn was a good asset for the Tories ironically , but Boris’s ‘style’ did turn a few Labour voter heads, maybe those heads were also pro Brexit , who knows?.., but it was obvious that Boris was popular with a lot of people pre election, hence the unprecedented and landslide majority.
Whether your last sentence is accurate is both arguable and open to opinion, but I think the ‘Partygate’ sheep who listened to the media b/s were a lot more vocal than those who simply didn’t give a toss, as there were far more important issues to face,… but it gave the Boris haters a vehicle and a sucessful platform to get rid if him,.as the frenzy built up.
The latest example of this type of thing ,. …(ok granted on a far MUCH more trivial issue ) illustrates my point, …
There presently seems to be some media based, (both social and mainstream) vendetta against Schofield and Holly W, because they allegedly jumped the queue at the Queen’s lying in state.
Most of us,.(and I’d go as far as to say the vast majority) really could not give two penny toss, but it has got to the stage where it is on every news feed,.and there are even petitions out for them to lose their jobs resulting from this vendetta from the same type of ‘partygate’ media led sheep
Unbelievably they still.could yet lose their over paid jobs because of all this b/s, .whereas the silent majority are just that…silent.
Funny old country/world where vocal minorities rule the roost in the long run eh?
Johnson was undoubtedly a very popular individual a couple of years ago. And for many years he was very successful at winning elections.
But “Partygate” does seem to have changed the publics opinion of him. I would say it opened their eyes to the true nature of the man, rather than the "image" he projected. [yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/ar ... about-lock](https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2022/04/21/eight-10-britons-say-boris-johnson-lied-about-lock) [inews.co.uk/news/politics/sue-g ... gn-1650603](https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/sue-gray-partygate-report-boris-johnson-resign-1650603) [bloomberg.com/news/articles ... ygate-poll](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-30/50-believe-wrong-people-being-held-accountable-over-partygate-poll) His fans are still vocal about getting him back, but being vocal, as you say, doesnt make a majority.
If you ask people what they think, so they are no longer silent, they did seem to say he was a liar and should go.
You could put up 1000 polls to make your point, polls can be manipulated and massaged, but if you want to continue to believe everything you are told,.especially when having the added bonus of coming up with what you want to agree with,.and who share YOUR opinion, then crack on.
How many people exactly were made up of those ''100% 's?..
possibly even only 100?..maybe even 10
Nobody asked me, nor millions of others no doubt , who share MY opinions,.so how accurate are they in fact?
And what do you base your last sentence on, who are these generic random ‘‘people’’ you mention that you have evidently asked?
A couple of your like minded mates in your local?
To sum up my point …any poll or survey can be massaged or manipulated,.ask 100 people in Newcastle who their favourite football team is, then go to Sunderland and ask the same question.
The only poll or survey that can be considered to have any degree of accuracy is an unbiased one and a nationwide one with a very high number of people partaking …For example a general election, or a referendum of only two choices, then you see what the majority think in real terms, not a couple of dubious opinion polls in a newspaper knocked up to get a headline.
Oh yeh…come to think if it, Johnson won both of the examples I gave.
I prefer to believe those.
You’ve only got to look back over the last few years to see that opinion polls are pretty useless, in the run up to Brexit it looked like remain would win hands down, also the 2019 general election the polls were almost putting labour and tory neck and neck.
People will say one thing to pollsters in the street but in the privacy of an election booth will go with their real gut feeling.
GORDON 50:
You’ve only got to look back over the last few years to see that opinion polls are pretty useless, in the run up to Brexit it looked like remain would win hands down, also the 2019 general election the polls were almost putting labour and tory neck and neck.
People will say one thing to pollsters in the street but in the privacy of an election booth will go with their real gut feeling.
in the words of mark twain… There are lies dam lies and there are statitistics
robroy:
And what do you base your last sentence on, who are these generic random ‘‘people’’ you mention that you have evidently asked?
A couple of your like minded mates in your local?
I base my last sentence on a weighted sample of over 2,000 people from differing regions and social groups across the UK.
As above.
robroy:
Most of us,.(and I’d go as far as to say the vast majority)
Is based on what? A couple of like minded mates in your local?
Polls are not perfect, but in the absence of anything better…
And certainly better than what any of us hear in the pub of our choice.
As I said mate just you keep on believing everything you are told, keep on downloading your links to reassure yourself, and keep on venting your anger at things that don’t go your way, and people you do not like who have achieved things you don’t agree with.
The rest of us will base our opinions on what we see with our own eyes,.and make up our minds without readily and automatically accepting everything we are told…But we’ve been here before ain’t we?
I was ready to put a line under our arguments.as we are polar opposites on most things, opposite ends of the spectrum on nature, and will rarely agree…but before you go on to call me a (annoying little ) troll again, it was you who responded to me.
GORDON 50:
You’ve only got to look back over the last few years to see that opinion polls are pretty useless, in the run up to Brexit it looked like remain would win hands down, also the 2019 general election the polls were almost putting labour and tory neck and neck.
People will say one thing to pollsters in the street but in the privacy of an election booth will go with their real gut feeling.
in the words of mark twain… There are lies dam lies and there are statitistics
Mark Twain was an excellent writer.
Statistics are exactly the same as words.
They can be used to tell the truth or to tell lies.
Dismissing words because some use them to lie, is as foolish as dismissing statistics because some misuse them.
Listening closely to, and understanding, words means you are less likely to be fooled.
The same applies to numbers.
GORDON 50:
You’ve only got to look back over the last few years to see that opinion polls are pretty useless, in the run up to Brexit it looked like remain would win hands down, also the 2019 general election the polls were almost putting labour and tory neck and neck.
People will say one thing to pollsters in the street but in the privacy of an election booth will go with their real gut feeling.
in the words of mark twain… There are lies dam lies and there are statitistics
Mark Twain was an excellent writer.
Statistics are exactly the same as words.
They can be used to tell the truth or to tell lies.
Dismissing words because some use them to lie, is as foolish as dismissing statistics because some misuse them.
Listening closely to, and understanding, words means you are less likely to be fooled.
The same applies to numbers.
My comment wasnt aimed you it was ment in agreement with the person i quoted but ill bite.
Lets say i want to find out the most popular supermarket in england… do i go out and stand outside sainsburys to get a fair representation?? or do i somehow organise a national voting system that everyone has the option to express thier choice. You cant have it bothways
Extending the example a little further those that voted for sainsburys will have different reasons why some might be because its the closest some might be because they can only get thier favourit brand of food there etc.
what would of happened if we had a general election to out boris i cant say for sure but there are a lot of people that decry him because they heard on twitter he did this that or the other but in my experience if pushed dont have anything substantial to back up thier opinions yet carry on spouting the same stuff regardless.
Big question for you all - is what would YOU like to happen next?
We’re told Starmer is now 30% ahead, (I assume only Tory Haters are being asked by these “Pollsters”)…?
What will Labour do to take this country in a different direction?
…Or is it just going to be “Sorry, it’s more years of austerity as we stick to Tory spending plans, and there’s no money…”…
We borrow from China every month, and we could really do with some cheap Energy flowing once more, either by opening up the entire North Sea Oil fields/Authorizing Fracking - which means abandoning the paris accord outright - OR make peace with Putin’s Russia…
No one asked the British People, even Ukrainians already living here - if we should raise taxes, cut wages, raise bills, inflict austerity, and wind down the NHS - just to wage a proxy war overseas that we cannot win in our lifetimes?
Had the 2019 election been held on Boris’ Oven Ready Brexit Deal vs Corbyn “make peace with Russia” that he’s mentioned recently - now - I can see myself voting for corbyn’s path to future peace, rather than court WWIII… mind you, if the EU had pushed to disband NATO, I would have voted Remain as well, come to that…
GORDON 50:
You’ve only got to look back over the last few years to see that opinion polls are pretty useless, in the run up to Brexit it looked like remain would win hands down, also the 2019 general election the polls were almost putting labour and tory neck and neck.
People will say one thing to pollsters in the street but in the privacy of an election booth will go with their real gut feeling.
in the words of mark twain… There are lies dam lies and there are statitistics
Mark Twain was an excellent writer.
Statistics are exactly the same as words.
They can be used to tell the truth or to tell lies.
Dismissing words because some use them to lie, is as foolish as dismissing statistics because some misuse them.
Listening closely to, and understanding, words means you are less likely to be fooled.
The same applies to numbers.
My comment wasnt aimed you it was ment in agreement with the person i quoted but ill bite.
Lets say i want to find out the most popular supermarket in england… do i go out and stand outside sainsburys to get a fair representation?? or do i somehow organise a national voting system that everyone has the option to express thier choice. You cant have it bothways
Extending the example a little further those that voted for sainsburys will have different reasons why some might be because its the closest some might be because they can only get thier favourit brand of food there etc.
what would of happened if we had a general election to out boris i cant say for sure but there are a lot of people that decry him because they heard on twitter he did this that or the other but in my experience if pushed dont have anything substantial to back up thier opinions yet carry on spouting the same stuff regardless.
I`m not after getting anyone “to bite”.
The YouGov poll has links to their sampling criteria and methodologies.
They don`t stand on a single street corner asking deliberately loaded questions.
They asked a couple of thousand people fro different areas and of different social groups.
Whatever was written about Johnson in Twitter or Facebook, I couldn`t care less.
What was written in the Gray Report and the Met Police report and the fine seem more worthy of note to me.
His contrary (and changing as more evidence came to light) “statements” is obvious too.
The ongoing inquiry into his conduct by the Privileges Committee has yet to report of course.
switchlogic:
Good to see me and Carryfast have lost the Most Annoying Users prize
Cheers Luke a fine and satisfying accolade and sorry for taking the limelight from you and your mate …(I’m assuming. you mean me and Frangers btw )
Thing is I’ve never been bothered or fussed about winning any popularity contests, in fact the mischievous side of me prefers the opposite if I’m honest.
Winseer:
Big question for you all - is what would YOU like to happen next?
We’re told Starmer is now 30% ahead, (I assume only Tory Haters are being asked by these “Pollsters”)…?
What will Labour do to take this country in a different direction?
…Or is it just going to be “Sorry, it’s more years of austerity as we stick to Tory spending plans, and there’s no money…”…
We borrow from China every month, and we could really do with some cheap Energy flowing once more, either by opening up the entire North Sea Oil fields/Authorizing Fracking - which means abandoning the paris accord outright - OR make peace with Putin’s Russia…
No one asked the British People, even Ukrainians already living here - if we should raise taxes, cut wages, raise bills, inflict austerity, and wind down the NHS - just to wage a proxy war overseas that we cannot win in our lifetimes?
Had the 2019 election been held on Boris’ Oven Ready Brexit Deal vs Corbyn “make peace with Russia” that he’s mentioned recently - now - I can see myself voting for corbyn’s path to future peace, rather than court WWIII… mind you, if the EU had pushed to disband NATO, I would have voted Remain as well, come to that…
I think i have said this already on this thread or if not this one a simular one.
Vote Corbyn in… not a chance we dont need that starlin wanna be facist pure and simple. Personaly i would welcome back boris if in the few weeks he has been gone has grown a pair and stands by what he says which is the only factual thing he did wrong.
Short term energy use our own resources be it north sea or fracking. However have it under our control ie what we produce we can use not go to this global supply chain. Also make fracking madatory not down to local authorities but again under state control (ignoring the issue with state run businesses)
Long term energy… Build nuclear power simple as that
Jobs and skilled workers… more money into proper education with a focus on proper jobs not this bloody stupid service economy more engineering and manufacturing in england rather than giving tax breaks to sending the stuff abroad.
robroy:
:roll:
As I said mate just you keep on believing everything you are told, keep on downloading your links to reassure yourself, and keep on venting your anger at things that don’t go your way, and people you do not like who have achieved things you don’t agree with.
The rest of us will base our opinions on what we see with our own eyes,.and make up our minds without readily and automatically accepting everything we are told…But we’ve been here before ain’t we?
I was ready to put a line under our arguments.as we are polar opposites on most things, opposite ends of the spectrum on nature, and will rarely agree…but before you go on to call me a (annoying little ) troll again, it was you who responded to me.
I`m perfectly happy to discuss things with people with views that are opposite to mine. That is what forums are about!
If you can stick to telling us why you hold your beliefs, and try to resist telling me about my “needs for reassurance” I hope we will get along just fine.
Franglais:
I`m not after getting anyone “to bite”.
The YouGov poll has links to their sampling criteria and methodologies.
They don`t stand on a single street corner asking deliberately loaded questions.
They asked a couple of thousand people fro different areas and of different social groups.
Whatever was written about Johnson in Twitter or Facebook, I couldn`t care less.
What was written in the Gray Report and the Met Police report and the fine seem more worthy of note to me.
His contrary (and changing as more evidence came to light) “statements” is obvious too.
The ongoing inquiry into his conduct by the Privileges Committee has yet to report of course.
I know I’m gonna regret asking, but…
Why are you even still bothered?
People like yourself who jumped on the bandwagon of the golden opportunity of the ridiculous ‘partygate’ issue have got your way…Boris is history.
He has lost his job, your agenda has been achieved,.even if it is only based on the eternal sour grapes of the ‘B’ word, because that is what it all boils down to in your case, it’s crystal.
Move on ffs, and reap the harvest that you have gone on to sow,.
Which is going from a popular (irrespective of whether or not you agree) leader, who was virtually the main reason his party got in, to a new government led by Liz,…a poundshop Maggie Thatch that has virtually brought us to our knees in a matter of weeks.
Even I at this moment plan to vote Labour next time in the inevitable brought forward general election.
robroy:
I know I’m gonna regret asking, but…
Why are you even still bothered?
People like yourself who jumped on the bandwagon of the golden opportunity of the ridiculous ‘partygate’ issue have got your way…Boris is history.
He has lost his job, your agenda has been achieved,.even if it is only based on the eternal sour grapes of the ‘B’ word, because that is what it all boils down to in your case, it’s crystal.
Move on ffs, and reap the harvest that you have gone on to sow,.
Which is going from a popular (irrespective of whether or not you agree) leader, who was virtually the main reason his party got in, to a new government led by Liz,…a poundshop Maggie Thatch that has virtually brought us to our knees in a matter of weeks.
Even I at this moment plan to vote Labour next time in the inevitable brought forward general election.
As I said, I really don`t want to discuss your opinion of my emotional state.
robroy:
I know I’m gonna regret asking, but…
Why are you even still bothered?
People like yourself who jumped on the bandwagon of the golden opportunity of the ridiculous ‘partygate’ issue have got your way…Boris is history.
He has lost his job, your agenda has been achieved,.even if it is only based on the eternal sour grapes of the ‘B’ word, because that is what it all boils down to in your case, it’s crystal.
Move on ffs, and reap the harvest that you have gone on to sow,.
Which is going from a popular (irrespective of whether or not you agree) leader, who was virtually the main reason his party got in, to a new government led by Liz,…a poundshop Maggie Thatch that has virtually brought us to our knees in a matter of weeks.
Even I at this moment plan to vote Labour next time in the inevitable brought forward general election.
As I said, I really don`t want to discuss your opinion of my emotional state.
That’s fine mate, you already prove and illustrate it a bit too well by yourself on this forum already
, but Boris’s ‘style’ did turn a few Labour voter heads, maybe those heads were also pro Brexit , who knows?.., but it was obvious that Boris was popular with a lot of people pre election, hence the unprecedented and landslide majority.
and sorry for taking the limelight from you and your mate 