MADBAZ:
Let’s not derail the thread with a slanging match, save it for the playground or pm.
How is it derailing the thread? We’re talking about companies who take your money and run aren’t we? Are you really happy for someone with John Dawsons/LGVTrainers background to be involved in a campaign like the one that’s being suggested?
44 Tonne Ton:
How is it derailing the thread? We’re talking about companies who take your money and run aren’t we? Are you really happy for someone with John Dawsons/LGVTrainers background to be involved in a campaign like the one that’s being suggested?
Well, yes, that is possibly fair comment. Perhaps we should await John’s reply before coming to any firm conclusions either way.
Another observation…
http://www.hgvexpress.co.uk/why-hgv/
http://www.ucanlgv.co.uk/?page_id=16
http://www.focushgv.co.uk/train_why.htm
Coincidence that they use almost the same text, even the same mistakes. As I said, purely observation and nothing else.
78% of the 100 largest and best companies to work for have a shortage.- ucanlgv.co.uk/?page_id=27
78% of the 100 largest and best companies to work for have a shortage.- hgvexpress.co.uk/qs-as/
78% of the 100 largest and best companies to work for have a shortage.- focushgv.co.uk/train_faq.htm
Looks like the FocusLGV website has been taken down (parked according to GoDaddy). I wonder what it’s reincarnation will be?
Johns past has been well documented on here- and John himself has given his views on it. I personally now would make a judgement on his admissions of mistakes in the past and the fact that to date Flair Training has not recieved any criticism that I know of. _ if you want to take John to task there are many existing threads to do so on here.
I do disagree that TruckNet is the way to take any reform forward- The only way this will get resolved is for the independant training schools to come together as an association and set standards, then press for those standards to be enshrined in law.
We are only a website for discussion, the desire for change has to come from within the training industry and be led by them. I am willing to help the industry do this but TruckNet will not be doing it as a body - the training industry must want to have change and be willing to take part in formatting that change - if they dont we on here can shout as long and hard as we wish about how bad brokers are- and it will make no difference.
It is about time the industry leaders stood up and say they are going to self regulate - until they do nothing we say or do is going to make a blind bit of difference
John Dawson certainly has his faults and his “own historic run ins” BUT so far Flair Training and John Dawson haven’t failed to deliver to their candidates, as far as I’m aware. It appears that Qualitas turned into a completely different animal after 2007 in the guise of Sterling/Autosearch, after JD wound up/sold Qualitas to them, there is no evidence to the contrary. If a leopard can truly change it’s spots then JD may well be the proof of that. The guy has taken some stick on this forum, some of it his own doing, but I truly believe he is out to do right by his candidates.
Can’t believe I’m actually defending him, NURSE pass me my pills!
One thing worth bearing in mind, ( and we do still have various e-mails from 2007 onwards archived bearing Johns name) that since Flair has been going there has been no complaints that I have heard about, Perhaps a Poacher turned Gamekeeper is not a bad thing- I am not saying that John is totally innocent in the past- something i suspect he will grudgingly agree to, - I do think that given Flair has a decent reputation so far and he himself feels that some regulation is in order , not to utalise his experience and knowledge would be daft. - but that would be Johns choice if he wanted to be involved
I say it again for those who missed it… This industry needs to be regulated from within- it needs to independant trainers to meet and talk to each other and agree a code of practice for them all that sets the industry standard - without the trainers on board nothing will ever be achieved
Book a hotel meeting room, invite all the decent training schools you all know and sit down and thrash out a set of ethics you all will conform to. make that the industry standard and you have a start of having a industry governing body that in time will be recognised and seen as credible
No-one else is going to clean up your industry for you
Rikki-UK:
It is about time the industry leaders stood up and say they are going to self regulate - until they do nothing we say or do is going to make a blind bit of difference
That’s a bit like saying that it’s about time that Diddycoy leaders stood up and told their members to stop stealing our diesel.
There is nothing libellous whatsoever about flagging up connections between previous companies, present companies and new companies.
Another observation made from information in the public domain…
According to Company Check HGV EXPRESS LTD. Free business summary taken from official companies house information. Free alerts. Registered as 07145773
The director of HGVExpress is one Mr Tahir Mahmood
This in no way implies any connection implied, alleged or otherwise, whatsoever with Haaris Mahmood, formally of DirectLGV, KHMO Ltd and Clearway
FocusLGV site is no longer on the web, FocusHGV is, and I would not make any connection implied, alleged or otherwise about any relationship between those two companies.
Harry Monk:
Rikki-UK:
There is nothing libellous whatsoever about flagging up connections between previous companies, present companies and new companies.
I cant see that I have said there are- and I dont see as yet any posts removed- and what I suggested are the more respectable training companies taking the lead on this… because without them this to be frank is going no where
Rikki-UK:
This industry needs to be regulated from within- it needs to independant trainers to meet and talk to each other and agree a code of practice for them all that sets the industry standard - without the trainers on board nothing will ever be achievedBook a hotel meeting room, invite all the decent training schools you all know and sit down and thrash out a set of ethics you all will conform to. make that the industry standard and you have a start of having a industry governing body that in time will be recognised and seen as credible
No-one else is going to clean up your industry for you
The above comments are how it would work if everyone wanted the same thing for the industry, unfortunately this isn’t the case as certain broker/trainers prove on a daily basis.
I am a training provider who is very proud of how we work and believes that good customer service is paramount because a good reputation is very hard to build but very easy to lose.
I do believe that the industry needs a massive shake up to make sure paying customers get exactly what they should - but who determines who are the right people to set standards■■? This is where this forum can play a part, the list of recommended training providers is well out of date and there are providers on there who have had negative comments made against them in posts or are no longer trading- would it not be a better approach to have a section where members can also comment on these companies so “newbies” can find it at a glance(1 for you RIKKI maybe 
)
I’m all for standards to be in place and as high as we can possibly make them, and am happy to stand up for that - it isn’t an easy task but with the with the “RIGHT” people helping it can possibly work.
Sorry if you nodded off in the middle but had to have my say 
John
Dear Mr Madbaz
Consumer Credit Act 1974
Complaint Against: ucanlgv.co.uk
Licence No: Unlicensed
Thank you for your email of 29 May 2012 in which you draw to our attention the activities of the traders named above.
Under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, if a business wishes to be involved in activities relating to consumer credit or hire, including debt collection and debt management, they must have a consumer credit licence. The Office of Fair Trading (OFT) has duty to enforce the Act, along with local authority Trading Standards Services (TSS).
Based on the information provided in your email, it appears that these traders do not hold a consumer credit licence.
We have, however, recorded the details of your complaint and we will consider this alongside any other complaints we have received with a view to any consumer credit licensing or other action we may decide to take. If we do take any action, we may need to contact you again in the future. Unfortunately, we cannot disclose any details about any action we may take, due to legal restrictions on the OFT relating to disclosure of information.
Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.
Yours sincerely
Things may be moving along nicely , obviously I’m not really called Mr Madbaz 
MADBAZ:
Things may be moving along nicely
I think this is the right route to take with these people along with complaints to the ASA. Why everyones shouting ‘the industry needs cleaning up’ i’ve no idea. Most of the tools/laws are already in place to stop people like these advertising what they are not and what they have not got but might be able to get !!
I can’t help feeling that these scamsters wouldn’t get nearly as far if the Sun newspaper declined to carry their adverts. On the contrary, not only does the Sun carry the adverts but they also run bogus stories about the driver shortage on adjacent pages, invariably mentioning the company advertising in that day’s edition.
The above comments are how it would work if everyone wanted the same thing for the industry, unfortunately this isn’t the case as certain broker/trainers prove on a daily basis.
I am a training provider who is very proud of how we work and believes that good customer service is paramount because a good reputation is very hard to build but very easy to lose.
It is only ever going to work if the industry comes together and builds a workable code of practice. those outside of the industry can moan and complain all they want, if the training industry itself doesnt do any thing nothing will ever change
Its YOUR industry, you clean it up its not anyone elses job to do it for you, if you really cant get over the fact you have to talk to each other to at least set basic ground rules- then your all [zb]ed.
Elements within your own industry are dragging you all down- and you all all happy to sit there and let people lose money, stop blaming everyone else- and expecting some one else to sort it out, its your industry, your problem get together and work out how you decent trainers can make life difficult for the seedier edges of your industry.
I have said that if you all organise something I am more than willing to attend and chair(at my own expense) as an impartial chairman of a meeting to at least get discussions started, but this has to come from you all as training providers-
and if the effort isnt there to do amything, then I for one will assume that you are all happy with the status quo - but dont come on here and moan/bad mouth brokers any more- if you not willing to put the effort in to make a difference
Rikki-UK:
The above comments are how it would work if everyone wanted the same thing for the industry, unfortunately this isn’t the case as certain broker/trainers prove on a daily basis.
I am a training provider who is very proud of how we work and believes that good customer service is paramount because a good reputation is very hard to build but very easy to lose.It is only ever going to work if the industry comes together and builds a workable code of practice. those outside of the industry can moan and complain all they want, if the training industry itself doesnt do any thing nothing will ever change
Its YOUR industry, you clean it up its not anyone elses job to do it for you, if you really cant get over the fact you have to talk to each other to at least set basic ground rules- then your all [zb]ed.
Elements within your own industry are dragging you all down- and you all all happy to sit there and let people lose money, stop blaming everyone else- and expecting some one else to sort it out, its your industry, your problem get together and work out how you decent trainers can make life difficult for the seedier edges of your industry.
I have said that if you all organise something I am more than willing to attend and chair(at my own expense) as an impartial chairman of a meeting to at least get discussions started, but this has to come from you all as training providers-
and if the effort isnt there to do amything, then I for one will assume that you are all happy with the status quo - but dont come on here and moan/bad mouth brokers any more- if you not willing to put the effort in to make a difference
Thanks for your very comprehensive reply Rikki but i feel you actually didn’t quote the most important part of my post
“I’m all for standards to be in place and as high as we can possibly make them, and am happy to stand up for that - it isn’t an easy task but with the with the “RIGHT” people helping it can possibly work.”
If you feel that i was blaming other people by mentioning the forum - then you couldn’t be further from the point. It was a simple suggestion to allow poor training providers to be highlighted rather than recommended.
My post may have read somewhat negative but i feel very strongly that we all have a chance to make it work and need to do so.
Why do the RHA and FTA endorse these crooks?? - answer is money, hense my comments about not everyone in the industry wanting it to change - we can all help to clean up the industry starting from within.
Just for the record when I said I was “proud of how we work” I meant we as in my company
Nothing to do with blaming any one mate- But while everyone is scared of sitting in the same room as their competitors and talking on an equal basis to agree a code of practice that hopefully time will become the quality standard and therefore eliminate the worst elements of the industry- nothing is going to change, we cant do this for you, this is your industries problem and the resoluition has to come from within… if the willingness isnt there to do it then back away and distance yourselves - however if you know its going wrong, put aside the competitor mind frame and work together to build a sensible frame work-
It would be interesting to know what percentage of a training companies work comes through a broker, lots for some, little for others i would guess.
Which side of the fence would you choose?
Or is that just muddying the waters
Do the trainers that work with the brokers carry on until they don’t get paid and then complain? Or are they prepared to take the occasional “hit” when a broker folds?
Back behind the sofa… 
My views are well known and previously documented. But, as a memory jogger, I’ll repeat abbreviated versions.
Firstly the dishonest broker issue. Regulation is in place to deal with them via ASA and trading standards. This is apart from the criminal law, of course.
Secondly, the standards of training. DSA have 2 registers in place: instructor and centre. They should make the former compulsory from eg Dec 2013 giving time for decent instructors to get onto the register. DSA could then layer the centre accreditation process so that an initial accreditation would be granted provided certain criteria is met and then a higher level granted if and when all criteria is met.
To me, these are the issues that need sorting. I’m cynical about the industry trying to clean itself up though I fully back and support any attempt to do so. I believe the forum performs a valuable service (especially due to the efforts of some regular contributors) in “shopping” dishonest brokers. The DSA system is already in place - just needs to grow a few more teeth.
Just my thoughts. Pete