TRUCK

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS OLD TIME LORRIES, COMPANIES AND DRIVERS (INTERACT
61

cav551:
I think he just did not like the Motor Panels cab since his road test of the Foden S40 29/10/71 is almost equally scathing:

“Fodens have now standardised on the Coventry Motor Panels steel cab and it is to my mind a distinct improvement over the glass fibre one that we all got to know so well. But it looks better from the outside than the inside. The driver sits high by current British standards, and has an excellent view of the road. However, driver and mate are separated by the very deep engine cover, which comes up almost to screen height. This arrangement is very restricting and creates problems which Fodens do not seem to be able to solve. The exhaust manifold is on the driver’s side of centre, making him very hot and, because the cover is removeable for engine servicing, the cab is very noisy.”

He then mentions the startling effect of the Kysor radiator shutter operating at 60 mph: It was comparable to opening and closing your front door on a windy day."

There is more cab related criticism concerning the angle, position and operating load of the pedals and not surprisingly also the steering " bordering on the dangerous".

However Trvor Longcroft’s test of the Seddon 34.4 hardly mentions the cab.

Gibb Grace also tested a John Raymond borrowed Atki 8lxb Borderer 23/6/72. He did not particularly like the cab of that either:

" The MkII cab of the Atkinson is dated in appearance and still very stark by current European standards" He then complements the vision and the seat adjustment. but goes on to say:

“With so much room available it is a pity the wheel and pedals are not better placed in relation to each other… the clutch pedal is displaced much too far to the left and so is awkward to operate… the accelerator is a throwback to yesteryear being a high-set treadle needing much too high an effort to operate it…proper control of the throttle was even more difficult, making driving at anything other than full throttle very wearing indeed.”

The steering again comes in for criticism being:" too heavy in the twisty hill sections and in tighter traffic conditions."

However he concludes: The Borderer, though now dated in appearance and in spite of not having ideally laid out controls, is still somehow very much a driver’s vehicle."

There were two road tests of ■■■■■■■ 220 powered A series ERFs around the time, one in drawbar form and the other an artic. My copies of these now 40+ year old magazines are in very poor condition and not all complete. They will however be on the CM archive if someone can work out how to copy the article onto this forum. Trevor Longcroft tested the Artic on 24/3/72 and was quite complementary of the LV cab. This vehicle had ZF steering which cam in for particular praise:

“…does not have any of that vagueness - evident in some systems- that requires constant wheel correction to maintai a straight course…”

Personally I would love to see a compilation of Road Tests from Truck and Commercial Motor from this period published.

How’s about this idea for next Christmas Rikki? :smiley: :smiley: LDD and the Test Matches in Truck were the first two things I read and re-read in every issue.

62

I found a copy in Smiths this morning, so as it’s a miserable wet afternoon, I’m just curling up in an armchair to read this bumper crop of LDDs! Robert :smiley:

63

I’ve just got mine I may be gone a while

64

got mine,in front of the fire with a packet of tunnocks caramel wafers and a pint of tea…er indoors decorating. carlsberg don’t do Thursday afternoon but if they did. …

65

Rikki-UK:
http://truckanddriver.co.uk/truck-is-back-the-best-of-truck-long-distance-diaries/

ordered mine yesterday, cant wait for it to come :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

66

Bought my copy yesterday afternoon . Currently sat on bay 53 at travis Perkins Brackmills .
Bringing back some good memories from my childhood, it’s a cracking read well worth the money .

67

Got mine yesterday, planning a ‘quiet’ weekend!

68

Saviem:
Well lets go back into history…who were the journalists who reviewed the latest offerings to the market place? They were , (in the main), real Road Transport Engineers, and I recall, (with both affection, and in some cases disgust at “blinkered” thinking), men that I worked alongside, John Dickson Simpson, Jon Barras, the “Mad Monk”, dear, Graham Montgommerie, (both decisive and analytical in his work), Tony, AJP Wilding, “Cruncher” Mike Cunningham, Gib Grace,and the Giant, who harnessed great talent and potential under his command, the late Iain Sheriff of Commercial Motor, and his protégé, the former “snapper” Brian Weatherley, (the creator of the long lost, (in its former superb format), Big Lorry Blog…and arguably one of the last, and at the same time one of the first “new breed” of lorry Journalists.

Lorry Manufacturers lived in real “fear” of the words of these engineering experts, and in those days the balance of power was held by the Journalists. What they wrote was the “word”, that was the truth about a product! Their word sold the product… people purchased the magazines for "their " reports, and their word was the guide…and the advertising revenue, (and lifeblood) followed behind…“ours is the best lorry…read all about it…and buy it here”

Hear hear!! And hence why the magazine has evolved into Comical Motor…

Looking back into the archives reveals objective, informed review of the machinery, with proper, professional terminology. Reading what I’ve just written make me feel about 85… :blush:

69

CM was always a hive of activity, those boys and girls really have their work cut out getting a weekly magazine to press. I used to feel sorry for them when we all attended launches etc as they would rush back to their rooms and write up their articles while us monthly chaps retired to the bar and consumed our body weight in free booze.

70

Truck and Truck and Driver have always persisted with portraying the acceptable face of road transport In an attempt to show the general public that lorry drivers are responsible law-abiding citizens. But I feel they would have sold a lot more magazines if they had been more realistic and included all the ducking and diving, the fiddling and thieving, the ■■■ and violence, and the drink and drugs in their stories.

Pat Kennet was a brilliant man but I always thought he let the facts get in the way of a good story.

71

ChrisArbon:
Truck and Truck and Driver have always persisted with portraying the acceptable face of road transport In an attempt to show the general public that lorry drivers are responsible law-abiding citizens. But I feel they would have sold a lot more magazines if they had been more realistic and included all the ducking and diving, the fiddling and thieving, the ■■■ and violence, and the drink and drugs in their stories.

Pat Kennet was a brilliant man but I always thought he let the facts get in the way of a good story.

Absolutely. But the policy of ‘no blame no shame and let’s give the juggernaut-bashing brigade no evidence to attack our industry’ was probably appropriate for the period, just to redress the balance. I remember that back in 1995 when I wrote an LDD for TRUCK (published over a year later) about a trip to Turkey; I described being stuck up ‘little Shipka’ mountain in Bulgaria with an elderly Scania 112 (and tilt) with a faulty alternator. I dared not switch the engine off and I spent a cold night breathing in acrid diesel fumes that leaked into the cab because I left the engine running on slightly-fast tick-over. TRUCK edited out that information out of political correctness. In a sense this wasn’t an entirely bad thing because it trained me to leave out any unnecessary criticism of particular lorries from my many subsequent articles. Redressing the balance is one thing, though: ceasing to tell the truth is quite another. Robert

72

robert1952:

ChrisArbon:
Truck and Truck and Driver have always persisted with portraying the acceptable face of road transport In an attempt to show the general public that lorry drivers are responsible law-abiding citizens. But I feel they would have sold a lot more magazines if they had been more realistic and included all the ducking and diving, the fiddling and thieving, the ■■■ and violence, and the drink and drugs in their stories.

Pat Kennet was a brilliant man but I always thought he let the facts get in the way of a good story.

Absolutely. But the policy of ‘no blame no shame and let’s give the juggernaut-bashing brigade no evidence to attack our industry’ was probably appropriate for the period, just to redress the balance. I remember that back in 1995 when I wrote an LDD for TRUCK (published over a year later) about a trip to Turkey; I described being stuck up ‘little Shipka’ mountain in Bulgaria with an elderly Scania 112 (and tilt) with a faulty alternator. I dared not switch the engine off and I spent a cold night breathing in acrid diesel fumes that leaked into the cab because I left the engine running on slightly-fast tick-over. TRUCK edited out that information out of political correctness. In a sense this wasn’t an entirely bad thing because it trained me to leave out any unnecessary criticism of particular lorries from my many subsequent articles. Redressing the balance is one thing, though: ceasing to tell the truth is quite another. Robert

To be fair the heater blowing exhaust fumes in from the idling engine in the days before night heaters were a common fit was nothing unusual anyway.

As for the company of loads of scantily clad women while throwing the empty beer cans out the window on the way up the M1,let alone all the way across Europe and beyond,if only that was true other than in the average driver’s dreams. :smiling_imp: :laughing: :laughing:

73

RobertI have to say that in Pats days as Editor that would not have happened. Maybe, whosoever pulled the strings was fearfull of Scania`s reaction affecting the advertising spend. I can only highlight it by repeating the furror back in the early days, when Pat wished to test a Bedford TM tractor, and the Dunstable Management said yes,…then …NO…so off went Pat and obtained one from a Dealer…who was then put under pressure…so withdrew…so off he went again and got hold of another…did the road test…and it was good, far better than GM could have hoped for…

Pat then did an Editorial about the , yes, no, yes, no, etc…and GM, and their Dealers still advertised…(but I think that the whole saga gave Andrew Frankl a “twitching bum”)…

That Robert sums up the difference between differing ages of the publication, and the type of characters involved…and perhaps where “Trade” publications now differ , and in that difference do no service to their purchasers!

Carryfast, you are bang on with what you say in your post!

■■■, Drugs, Violence…for goodness sake man…I drove a Foden!!!

Cheerio for now.

74

Saviem:
RobertI have to say that in Pats days as Editor that would not have happened. Maybe, whosoever pulled the strings was fearfull of Scania`s reaction affecting the advertising spend. I can only highlight it by repeating the furror back in the early days, when Pat wished to test a Bedford TM tractor, and the Dunstable Management said yes,…then …NO…so off went Pat and obtained one from a Dealer…who was then put under pressure…so withdrew…so off he went again and got hold of another…did the road test…and it was good, far better than GM could have hoped for…

Pat then did an Editorial about the , yes, no, yes, no, etc…and GM, and their Dealers still advertised…(but I think that the whole saga gave Andrew Frankl a “twitching bum”)…

That Robert sums up the difference between differing ages of the publication, and the type of characters involved…and perhaps where “Trade” publications now differ , and in that difference do no service to their purchasers!

Carryfast, you are bang on with what you say in your post!

■■■, Drugs, Violence…for goodness sake man…I drove a Foden!!!

Cheerio for now.

You are right, Saviem. I have just re-visited Pat Kennett’s book ‘World Trucks No. 14: Leyland’. Bearing in mind that he was a Leyland man, he takes no prisoners in stating the virtues and failings of the products he is reporting about. It’s all straight from the shoulder - and all the more refreshing for it! Robert

75

Saviem:
RobertI have to say that in Pats days as Editor that would not have happened. Maybe, whosoever pulled the strings was fearfull of Scania`s reaction affecting the advertising spend. I can only highlight it by repeating the furror back in the early days, when Pat wished to test a Bedford TM tractor, and the Dunstable Management said yes,…then …NO…so off went Pat and obtained one from a Dealer…who was then put under pressure…so withdrew…so off he went again and got hold of another…did the road test…and it was good, far better than GM could have hoped for…

Pat then did an Editorial about the , yes, no, yes, no, etc…and GM, and their Dealers still advertised…(but I think that the whole saga gave Andrew Frankl a “twitching bum”)…

That Robert sums up the difference between differing ages of the publication, and the type of characters involved…and perhaps where “Trade” publications now differ , and in that difference do no service to their purchasers!

Carryfast, you are bang on with what you say in your post!

■■■, Drugs, Violence…for goodness sake man…I drove a Foden!!!

Cheerio for now.

I don’t remember who was at the helm then, maybe Jack Semple? It would’ve been the Sub Editor that cut the story anyway and that could’ve been for space reasons, the Sub that was there when I was, Stuart, was mustard at that, if he chopped anything it never detracted from the story and he would sometimes bulk a story out if he needed a few more lines to fill a page and he did a fine job with that too. Jack was no stranger to controversial articles either, as the following paragraph proves.

It was over the front cover photo of a 190-32 IVECO with the headline NOISY! As this was the overiding memory of the test of that particular lorry, the chaps in Watford and Turin were not best pleased and wanted retractions and apologies, which they didn’t get, in turn TRUCK lost the advertising and was black balled from testing any IVECO products… until they had to come fedora in hand when they were launching the Eurotech range, I don’t know how true it is, but legend has it that the advertising department ramped up the rates to make up for the lost revenue.

During my time, under the leadership of Andy Salter, we had Carte Blanche to write whatever we wanted as long as the complaint was valid. On a Trans Euro Test I did I had the Daf as the winner, even though the MAN posted better numbers, I just didn’t like the MAN, so the Daf was the winner, no ifs, ands or buts, I did the test, I thought the Daf was the best lorry and that was that.

Another time I had tested a DAF 95-530 and writing it up I was chatting with Andy, he said don’t forget to mention that poxy brake pedal, it was the old treadle type which he hated, I disagreed and said I like the big pedal and he said to explain why I did in my write up, he never forced his views on the readers and he respected my views, but giving my explanation of why I liked the big pedal left the verdict on whether it was a good or bad thing open to the reader’s interpretation and that is good reporting.

My first week at TRUCK was spent reading every issue of the magazine from the very first to the one on the shelves at the time, this was to get me into TRUCK mode and give me an idea of what was required of me, I had bought and read every copy anyway, but I still had to read them and get paid for it, talk about a dream job!

76

Carryfast:

robert1952:

ChrisArbon:
Truck and Truck and Driver have always persisted with portraying the acceptable face of road transport In an attempt to show the general public that lorry drivers are responsible law-abiding citizens. But I feel they would have sold a lot more magazines if they had been more realistic and included all the ducking and diving, the fiddling and thieving, the ■■■ and violence, and the drink and drugs in their stories.

Pat Kennet was a brilliant man but I always thought he let the facts get in the way of a good story.

Absolutely. But the policy of ‘no blame no shame and let’s give the juggernaut-bashing brigade no evidence to attack our industry’ was probably appropriate for the period, just to redress the balance. I remember that back in 1995 when I wrote an LDD for TRUCK (published over a year later) about a trip to Turkey; I described being stuck up ‘little Shipka’ mountain in Bulgaria with an elderly Scania 112 (and tilt) with a faulty alternator. I dared not switch the engine off and I spent a cold night breathing in acrid diesel fumes that leaked into the cab because I left the engine running on slightly-fast tick-over. TRUCK edited out that information out of political correctness. In a sense this wasn’t an entirely bad thing because it trained me to leave out any unnecessary criticism of particular lorries from my many subsequent articles. Redressing the balance is one thing, though: ceasing to tell the truth is quite another. Robert

To be fair the heater blowing exhaust fumes in from the idling engine in the days before night heaters were a common fit was nothing unusual anyway.

As for the company of loads of scantily clad women while throwing the empty beer cans out the window on the way up the M1,let alone all the way across Europe and beyond,if only that was true other than in the average driver’s dreams. :smiling_imp: :laughing: :laughing:

Is this the same Carryast that wanted to emigrate to Canada and Australia? I thought you had sense of adventure? Are you the only lorry driver who has not been to the red light districts of Amsterdam and Hamburg? Or sampled the delights inside a hi-top Renault Traffic in a rural French lay-by?

77

newmercman:
Another time I had tested a DAF 95-530 and writing it up I was chatting with Andy, he said don’t forget to mention that poxy brake pedal, it was the old treadle type which he hated, I disagreed and said I like the big pedal and he said to explain why I did in my write up, he never forced his views on the readers and he respected my views, but giving my explanation of why I liked the big pedal left the verdict on whether it was a good or bad thing open to the reader’s interpretation and that is good reporting.

I’d agree with treadle floor mounted brake pedal idea.The top hinged type often if not always mean taking your heel off the floor and having to balance the brake control input against the knee like the clutch.Instead of at the ankle with a firm base for the whole foot against the movement of the vehicle.Especially in the case of braking on rough surfaces with the cab bouncing up and down.

78

That’s my opinion too, plus a big pedal gives you a better chance of hitting it instantly if you have to anchor up sharpish.

I also have size 12 feet, so dinky little pedals and work boots do not go together very well, I can toe n toe instead of heel n toe!

79

so who has read it? any reactions? was it worth the price?

Me- while the stories were great what I loved about the production is that they didn’t sell advertising for modern trucks but reproduced adverts from the era- obviously I am biased dueto being paid by the company that made it - but I loved it

80

I’m still waiting for mine, any luck with that Rikki?