The company i work for has me working on contract to a large white and orange parcel company, i drive an 18 tonner. in the mornings it is impossible to get to the headboard or see the pallets at that end of the wagon due to the way the overnight loaders load it. i got my paperwork the other morning, checked my paperwork, nothing was out of the ordinary, had a delivery on for the local constabulary, it was a 750kg pallet, that was all my notes said. when i got there it was a firearms training facility and my delivery was 750kgs of bullets, the big bullets they use in the big guns. i am not a class 1 ADR driver, this had to be illegal to transport ammunition without an ADR, my boss went mad at them for putting it on the wagon and not telling anyone. I wonder what my legal position would have been should anything bad have happend. From what i understand the pallet had been picked up, shipped overnight etc, all by drivers without ADR’s or any hazard warning boards on the wagons.
There are parts of a fantastic thread on this site about bullets, foreign climes and an Iveco that spent more time at sea than on the road 
Unfortunately many of the funniest posts were deleted.
cbrboy1000:
The company i work for has me working on contract to a large white and orange parcel company, i drive an 18 tonner. in the mornings it is impossible to get to the headboard or see the pallets at that end of the wagon due to the way the overnight loaders load it. i got my paperwork the other morning, checked my paperwork, nothing was out of the ordinary, had a delivery on for the local constabulary, it was a 750kg pallet, that was all my notes said. when i got there it was a firearms training facility and my delivery was 750kgs of bullets, the big bullets they use in the big guns. i am not a class 1 ADR driver, this had to be illegal to transport ammunition without an ADR, my boss went mad at them for putting it on the wagon and not telling anyone. I wonder what my legal position would have been should anything bad have happend. From what i understand the pallet had been picked up, shipped overnight etc, all by drivers without ADR’s or any hazard warning boards on the wagons.
Hi cbrboy1000,
I might be able to give you some reassurance about this.
Can you please give the following information:
UN number (four digits)
Class, Division and compatibility letter (Eg 1.4S, 1.2C, 1.4C)
Total NEQ or NEM (Net Explosive Quantity or Net Explosive Mass)
The above MUST be written on your delivery paperwork AND on each box.
The fact that the total pallet weight was 750 Kg is irrelevant, it’s the above info that actually counts.
So what difference would it made if you had an adr?
FFs man !does it make you run faster?
GasGas:
This is probably relevant
Hi GasGas,
The short answer is… the document in your link is not relevant in this case.
As a general comment, I found it confusing and somewhat inaccurate in places.
The reason is that the OP undertook a UK journey, so CDG 2009 (as amended) applies, which modifies (amongst other things) the ADR Transport Category load limits for some UN Class 1 goods.
A good answer to the OP’s legal position can only be given once the info I’ve asked for is available.
dieseldave:
GasGas:
This is probably relevantHi GasGas,
The short answer is… the document in your link is not relevant in this case.
As a general comment, I found it confusing and somewhat inaccurate in places.The reason is that the OP undertook a UK journey, so CDG 2009 (as amended) applies, which modifies (amongst other things) the ADR Transport Category load limits for some UN Class 1 goods.
A good answer to the OP’s legal position can only be given once the info I’ve asked for is available.
I distrust documents that speak of Transportation 
Bking:
So what difference would it made if you had an adr?
It makes a difference because a non-ADR trained driver can only carry dangerous goods in quantities equal to or less than the relevant ADR Transport Category load limits.
The OP asked about his legal position, and it’s a very good question.
Years ago I was working for a barging company where explosives of all sorts were shipped by water from either Felixstowe dock (since filled in), Mistley and Gt Oakley to the London river for onward transhipment. Them days the load would come to us by lorry and just loaded just like all other cargoes with no special consideration for what they were, bombs or rockets or whatever at one end of the hold and the detonators at the other, no-one bothered. No H&S ■■■■■■■■■, UN numbers and all the rest of the rubbish etc etc etc, but I cant recall anyone ever having any mishap of any degree. And there was no battalion of security guards either.
Wheel Nut:
I distrust documents that speak of Transportation
Same here!! 
Your all good…
hse.gov.uk/cdg/pdf/c1-loadthresh.pdf
My hobby is shooting and have been licensed for years. 7.62x51 is the biggest the police use- that weighs in at around 4kg/100 rounds. So the pallet had at most 3750 rounds on it… Each round will have max 40 grains of powder (2.6g) so that’s a total mass of 9.75kg of powder.
If it was powder with UN rating of 1.4C you could move 333kg before your in trouble, but as finished cartridges they will be 1.4S. There is no restriction on 1.4S as I understand.
It’s all in the above. But I could be totally wrong as that’s me applying my hobby knowledge with a vague knowledge of ADR!
So in short I understand there to be ‘unlimited’ weight for 1.4S and 333kg of 1.4C. So I think he’s clear.
Race Trucker:
So in short I understand there to be ‘unlimited’ weight for 1.4S and 333kg of 1.4C. So I think he’s clear.
Not wanting to derail this important thread but I remember when I worked at United Carriers in 197* my oppo was driving down to the Midlands when the tail door came open and a box of 250 shotgun cartridges fell out. . Some over exuberant plod got hold of the case and had my mate in court for it. I remember it was a worrying moment for him as he thought he may lose his job.
it was thrown out eventually and the copper made himself look a bit of a fool trying to explain the dangers of explosives landing on the road. An expert witness from Hull Cartridge company tied him in knots. I think it was in Headlight Magazine at the time.
Lol I know… Everyone without too much experience thinks that cartridges are really dangerous but its just not true. Unless confined in a chamber even if it went off it would do little more than click and split the plastic. That’s why there 1.4S- no risk of bulk explosion.
Also for interest- rifle ammo (class 1) needs a license to buy and own, but shotgun cartridges need a license to buy but not own. So if I ‘gave’ you some you could legally keep them. Odd huh?
Wheel Nut:
There are parts of a fantastic thread on this site about bullets, foreign climes and an Iveco that spent more time at sea than on the roadUnfortunately many of the funniest posts were deleted.
As i read the thread title that was my first thought. Its not on “this” version of TN though is it?
A broken down truck enroute to Cyprus, a stranded trailer full of live bullets and a timely house fire IIRC.
Interesting days. 
PS. Thought it was a DAF?
dieseldave:
Bking:
So what difference would it made if you had an adr?It makes a difference because a non-ADR trained driver can only carry dangerous goods in quantities equal to or less than the relevant ADR Transport Category load limits.
The OP asked about his legal position, and it’s a very good question.
And it keeps you in a job (LOL) dont it !
Race Trucker:
Your all good…
hse.gov.uk/cdg/pdf/c1-loadthresh.pdf
My hobby is shooting and have been licensed for years. 7.62x51 is the biggest the police use- that weighs in at around 4kg/100 rounds. So the pallet had at most 3750 rounds on it… Each round will have max 40 grains of powder (2.6g) so that’s a total mass of 9.75kg of powder.If it was powder with UN rating of 1.4C you could move 333kg before your in trouble, but as finished cartridges they will be 1.4S. There is no restriction on 1.4S as I understand.
It’s all in the above. But I could be totally wrong as that’s me applying my hobby knowledge with a vague knowledge of ADR!
Correct. All NEQs for SAA (most of which is 1.4S) is calculated as negligible, no upper threshold for quantities. Although currently, as we speak, 7.62 mm is being reclassified under a HCC of 1.2.
Driveroneuk:
Wheel Nut:
There are parts of a fantastic thread on this site about bullets, foreign climes and an Iveco that spent more time at sea than on the roadUnfortunately many of the funniest posts were deleted.
As i read the thread title that was my first thought. Its not on “this” version of TN though is it?
A broken down truck enroute to Cyprus, a stranded trailer full of live bullets and a timely house fire IIRC.
Interesting days.PS. Thought it was a DAF?
It was a DAF that went to Cyprus but before the DAF it was an Iveco that did about 5 trips between Dover and Calais because it had an electrical fault
years ago the BRS used to take bombs from Barry docks to U.S. airbases , they came in on lighters cos the ship anchored outside the dock , the bombs were put on cradles on the flat trailer , all you needed was hazard lights & off you went usually in a convoy of six , h you had an ■■■■■■ with you , usually someone off the dole offered a days work , be different now methinks
Driving goods around without an ADR? Lucky you didn’t get the bullet!