see
dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/M … 202011.pdf
what is the right pay for an external TM?
TC specifies (being available for) 8hours per week for <2 vehicle licence, bearing in mind nat min wage.
Euro:
see
dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/M … 202011.pdfwhat is the right pay for an external TM?
TC specifies (being available for) 8hours per week for <2 vehicle licence, bearing in mind nat min wage.
The 4/50 rule is very interesting and could prohibit some TM acting for others
It’s does say that TM can be on 4 operators licence and a max of 50 trucks. I’d be very suprised if that effected most. Maybe it will effect the large companies but the small one truck firms like myself I can’t see how it would effect.
My TM only looks after two trucks.
With this step of tighting the rules I think it’s a very good idea for most who do rely on aTM to get their own Cpc. Can anyone recommend any good places to train for cpc?
mixer driver:
It’s does say that TM can be on 4 operators licence and a max of 50 trucks. I’d be very suprised if that effected most. Maybe it will effect the large companies but the small one truck firms like myself I can’t see how it would effect.My TM only looks after two trucks.
With this step of tighting the rules I think it’s a very good idea for most who do rely on aTM to get their own Cpc. Can anyone recommend any good places to train for cpc?
I think the way it is written means that anyone can only work for 4 operators, the number of trucks are irrelevant unless one operator has more than 50.
It does mention that 50 is a maximum and it could be reduced by the TC if they deem it necessary.
These contractors will be
limited to working for a maximum
of four operators with a combined
maximum total fleet of 50 vehicles.
I also think it is designed to get rid of these hot shot consultancy firms who get owner drivers or smaller companies on the road, a rather good idea in my opinion and I have banged on about them for many years.
You said your TM looks after two trucks and in a recent post I think you said he operates one himself. The way I understand this, is that he wouldn’t be able to offer his services to more than 4 licence holders, even if you only ran 2 trucks each.
I read it same way as you wheel nut. A TM can only offer his services to no more than 4 operators.
So what about the guy who runs a couple of trucks, and has about 15 O/D’s parked in his yard with their own o/licences, but he is TM on all o/licences and employs mechanics to do all the maintainance, I can see the point being limited to 50 trucks, but why limit it to just 4 operators. Is this rule going to apply to the whole of the EU operators, or is it just our over zealous UK enforcers looking for some extra backdoor action to keep themselves looking busy 
Big Joe:
So what about the guy who runs a couple of trucks, and has about 15 O/D’s parked in his yard with their own o/licences, but he is TM on all o/licences and employs mechanics to do all the maintainance, I can see the point being limited to 50 trucks, but why limit it to just 4 operators. Is this rule going to apply to the whole of the EU operators, or is it just our over zealous UK enforcers looking for some extra backdoor action to keep themselves looking busy
Typical Uk, Dutch operations don’t require certain size operation centres, no restrictions on amount of vehicles per TM, no 6 weekly rip off safety inspections, no traffic commissionaires for certain areas. But a he’ll lot of common sense is required.
These contractors will be
limited to working for a maximum
of four operators with a combined
maximum total fleet of 50 vehicles.
There seems to be two maximums mentioned, so both must be obeyed.
From my reading of it, I could work for one firm that has 47 trucks and three firms that have one truck each and I haven’t exceeded either of the maximums.
I have no more than a maximum of 4 clients, AND no more than a maximum 50 trucks.
The word “combined” isn’t the same as saying either/or.
dieseldave:
These contractors will be
limited to working for a maximum
of four operators with a combined
maximum total fleet of 50 vehicles.There seems to be two maximums mentioned, so both must be obeyed.
From my reading of it, I could work for one firm that has 47 trucks and three firms that have one truck each and I haven’t exceeded either of the maximums.
I have no more than a maximum of 4 clients, AND no more than a maximum 50 trucks.
Even than the TC can make a different decision, it’s not complete written in stone, history can make the TC decide to make a different decision for let say a maximum of 24 vehicles.
Travel distance/time is also taken in consideration, you are expected as a TM to be able to spend enough time to run a complying operation, so being an owner driver with one vehicle and running as a TM another business with 49 vehicles can be seen as not acceptable.
dieseldave:
These contractors will be
limited to working for a maximum
of four operators with a combined
maximum total fleet of 50 vehicles.There seems to be two maximums mentioned, so both must be obeyed.
From my reading of it, I could work for one firm that has 47 trucks and three firms that have one truck each and I haven’t exceeded either of the maximums.
I have no more than a maximum of 4 clients, AND no more than a maximum 50 trucks.
A 50 truck limit is understandable, and probably on the high side as they would keep one bloke very busy just on one site, something like a 10 site restriction would be more realistic with a lower combined fleet for every additional site pro rata.
It seems to be an ill thought out simplistic restriction, and just shows how much real life contact these ‘‘top’’ civil servant Traffic Commisioners really have with their chosen gravy train career in road transport 
caledoniandream:
Even than the TC can make a different decision, it’s not complete written in stone, history can make the TC decide to make a different decision for let say a maximum of 24 vehicles.
Travel distance/time is also taken in consideration, you are expected as a TM to be able to spend enough time to run a complying operation, so being an owner driver with one vehicle and running as a TM another business with 49 vehicles can be seen as not acceptable.
Hi Frans,
Yes mate, I completely agree with what you’ve said above, but I’d temporarily left out those considerations whilst I explored what I thought is theoretically possible.
Just from reading the words, they’re telling us what the absolute maximums are, but in reality and once everything is considered, circumstances may well dictate lower figures.
I am just sat by the phone waiting for it to ring. This time next year I may be a millionaire 
4 operators, 8 hours a piece. I could be sat in the pub by lunchtime checking drivers records 
Wheel Nut:
I am just sat by the phone waiting for it to ring. This time next year I may be a millionaire4 operators, 8 hours a piece. I could be sat in the pub by lunchtime checking drivers records
And fridays off into the bargain, mmmmm 
…YES, sign me up please 
Big Joe:
A 50 truck limit is understandable, and probably on the high side as they would keep one bloke very busy just on one site, something like a 10 site restriction would be more realistic with a lower combined fleet for every additional site pro rata.
It seems to be an ill thought out simplistic restriction, and just shows how much real life contact these ‘‘top’’ civil servant Traffic Commisioners really have with their chosen gravy train career in road transport
Hi Big Joe,
It might well be a simplistic or even ill thought restriction, but it doesn’t come from the UK Traffic Commissioners.
The source of the 4/50 rule is EC Regulation 1071/2009.
A careful read of the Articles contained in the Regulation reveals that Member States have some discretion in certain matters.
Article 1(5)
Member States may exempt from the application of all or some of the provisions of this Regulation only those road transport operators engaged exclusively in national transport operations having only a minor impact on the transport market because of:(a) the nature of the goods carried; or
(b) the short distances involved.
Here is the 4/50 rule:
Article 4(2)(c)
in his or her capacity as transport manager, the person referred to in point (a) may manage the transport activities of up to four different undertakings carried out with a combined maximum total fleet of 50 vehicles. Member States may decide to lower the number of undertakings and/or the size of the total fleet of vehicles which that person may manage;
IMHO, the effect of this is to put two maximum limits on TMs.
If our TCs wanted to set more generous limits than the maximums permitted, they’d be putting the UK in possible breach of Article4(2)(c).
However, the same Article allows our TCs to set lower limits for either the “4” or the “50” or both.
Here’s why we (and the UK government, including the TCs) have to do what the Regulation says:
Article 30
Entry into force
This Regulation shall enter into force on the 20th day following its publication in the Official Journal of the European Union.
It shall apply with effect from 4 December 2011.
This Regulation shall be binding in its entirety and directly applicable in all Member States.
Done at Strasbourg, 21 October 2009.
So, the 4/50 rule is an EU job creation scheme, and no doubt the UK will implement it to the letter
Big Joe:
So, the 4/50 rule is an EU job creation scheme, and no doubt the UK will implement it to the letter
Not in my eyes it isn’t, it may finally get rid of the transport consulting agencies that abound and promise the earth. The TC certainly doesn’t like them, but Brussels are trying to control them.
If you want to be an fleet owner or owner operator, take the exam, or employ a full time manager and let him manage.
Fact: Council Directive EU96/26 will allow a CPC provider to take control of four separate operators with a combined maximum of 50 vehicles. If you were able to achieve this, your annual income could be in excess of £60,000, not bad for a full time, part time Transport Manager.
I plucked that snippet from a consultancy website
Wheel Nut:
Fact, your annual income could be in excess of £60,000, not bad for a full time, part time Transport Manager.
I plucked that snippet from a consultancy website
Quote from the film ‘Rules of Engagement’, “what was the average life expectancy of a 2nd Leutenant in Vietnam? 17 minutes”!!
Well I recon a transport manager working for a 'consultancy might exceed this, & not be risking life & limb, but I doubt you’ll keep your ‘good repute’ for too long!! Good luck to those working in this industry.
I’m TM for a friends two recovery trucks working out of his body shops in Manchester & Liverpool, I have full controll & book VBC’s myself and regularly check tacho’s & inpection records, so if I get into trouble, there’s nobody to blame other than myself.
From what I’ve read, many these consultancy jobs are simply sign here and get a cheque each month, how can a TM in Exeter properly manage a haulage company in Aberdeen? simple, regular visits!! Not for me thanks.
Ross.
bigr250:
From what I’ve read, many these consultancy jobs are simply sign here and get a cheque each month, how can a TM in Exeter properly manage a haulage company in Aberdeen? simple, regular visits!! Not for me thanks.
Hi Ross,
Even before this new 4/50 thing came in, there was a system that the TCs used to prevent exactly what you’ve mentioned.
At the time of applying to add/change a TM, the TC would take account of:
- What other work the prospective TM does in a week, and
- The distance from the TM’s address to the transport firm that he’s about to be TM for.
I am currently the TM on two operators licences.Another would be operator has just applied for a licence.
I have had to state how many hours per week I do for each of the other two that I act for,also on what days of the week I carry out the work.What are my duties etc,also what days I will be carrying out my duties with the new operator.I live 23 miles from the furthest operator,also if an operator has more than two vehicles on his licence you must do a minimum of 15 hours per week.So there is no way you could manage 50 vehicles unless they were belonging to one operator and you were full time.
I am not a phantom TM I do check the tacho’s and maintenance records and keep an eye on the people I act for.
Big Joe:
So, the 4/50 rule is an EU job creation scheme, and no doubt the UK will implement it to the letter
Hi Big Joe,
Under Article 30 above, the UK has no choice but to comply with it because it’s already been implemented by the EU.
An EU Regulation isn’t the same as an EU Directive, because a Directive is aimed at governments and sets out a framework and a timescale, then the governments of the EU Member States each pass their own national law to comply with the instructions a Directive contains. There’s usually more lattitude in a Directive than there is in a Regulation.