What’s the chances of maintaining a regular sleep/wake pattern while tramping? Is it kind of expected that you’re flexible between day and night shift start times?
I’m a day driver and have never done any nights out.
Depends on who you work for. On the bulkers I started anywhere between 4am and 8am depending on what I was at for the day. Mills not open til about 6 and arable farmers dont like getting out of bed 
On the brick crane it was around 7am every morning, building sites dont tend to open til about half 7-8 and I used to like running a little later in the evening and getting parked somewhere close for a lie in.
Any where between 00:01 and 23:59 in any given day
RC88:
What’s the chances of maintaining a regular sleep/wake pattern while tramping? Is it kind of expected that you’re flexible between day and night shift start times?
I’m a day driver and have never done any nights out.
It’s like everything else in this job mate,.they all try and see how hard they can push you,.and how far they can go in taking the ■■■■…fact.
BUT…they only do it as far as YOU let them get away with it. 
I usually start at 6am, or if it suits me around 5, never before as:I know my limitations and I ain’t at my best doing stupid early starts,.I rarely take less than 10 off, again unless it suits me…9 off is a minimum not a limit.
If they come at you with ‘You can legally start at whatever o clock’ ,.(and an initial polite constructive objection from you does not work)…tell them they can legally do 24 hour days but you bet they sure as hell won’t be.
Also the old… ‘Well ■■■■ starts at 3 am’’ chestnut, tell em to give the job to ■■■■ then,.and you’ll do a 6 am start.
Or if you want ridiculous early starts,.and/or the job you do specifically demands stupid starts, then crack on, but the job does NOT HAVE to be some kind of stress laden endurance excercise.
Just set your own parameters, from day 1, but still get through your workload,.and they can not say anything.
I used to start at 04.00 as at that time it is possible to do a couple of hours driving. Used to be parked by about 15.30-16.30, plenty of parking spaces at that time. Friday normally was back in the yard for aboit 14.00 finished. 
robroy:
If they come at you with ‘You can legally start at whatever o clock’ ,.(and an initial polite constructive objection from you does not work)…tell them they can legally do 24 hour days but you bet they sure as hell won’t be.
Also the old… ‘Well ■■■■ starts at 3 am’’ chestnut, tell em to give the job to ■■■■ then,.and you’ll do a 6 am start.
Or if you want ridiculous early starts,.and/or the job you do specifically demands stupid starts, then crack on, but the job does NOT HAVE to be some kind of stress laden endurance excercise.Just set your own parameters, from day 1, but still get through your workload,.and they can not say anything.
This. I used to have it at Reed Boardall, took control of it. I knew if I was at a certain place at a certain time where they were likely to want to send me. Supposed to be on a 10am-10pm shift and when phoning in around the point I needed to be heading home to get there by 10pm and they’d magic something out of somewhere I used to tell them I’d not have enough time. Their response was “well you can drive 10hrs in a day” to which my reply was “just because I can doesn’t mean I want to” and that was that.
We have absolute ball bags at my place who come into the yard on a Sun pm, have a few hours kip, then set off at one minute past midnight… btw one has since left complaining because he is now ‘expected’ to do it. 
wtf did he expect?..he set his own pace ffs.
They could start at early pm Sun, on premium rate, drive down a few hours, and then get paid exs whilst kipping in their cabs.
I went in the yard one Sun pm on my way to a meal with the wife to collect something from my cab,.and there they were fuelling up and collecting trailers OFF CARD btw,.!! so they could get away quicker…I just totally blanked the ■■■■ morons…good jobfor them I ain’t a VOSA grass eh?
Why tf would you give up your Sunday afternoon leisure time, without pay, just to increase the hardship?? 
Their logic/reason?
They like to beat the traffic.
Can I just add they are also on an hourly rate,.where traffic should not bother their arses.
As I’ve said before on here…classic case of ‘pork and education’'.
robroy:
RC88:
What’s the chances of maintaining a regular sleep/wake pattern while tramping? Is it kind of expected that you’re flexible between day and night shift start times?
I’m a day driver and have never done any nights out.It’s like everything else in this job mate,.they all try and see how hard they can push you,.and how far they can go in taking the ■■■■…fact.
BUT…they only do it as far as YOU let them get away with it.
I usually start at 6am, or if it suits me around 5, never before as:I know my limitations and I ain’t at my best doing stupid early starts,.I rarely take less than 10 off, again unless it suits me…9 off is a minimum not a limit.
If they come at you with ‘You can legally start at whatever o clock’ ,.(and an initial polite constructive objection from you does not work)…tell them they can legally do 24 hour days but you bet they sure as hell won’t be.
Also the old… ‘Well ■■■■ starts at 3 am’’ chestnut, tell em to give the job to ■■■■ then,.and you’ll do a 6 am start.
Or if you want ridiculous early starts,.and/or the job you do specifically demands stupid starts, then crack on, but the job does NOT HAVE to be some kind of stress laden endurance excercise.Just set your own parameters, from day 1, but still get through your workload,.and they can not say anything.
That makes a lot of sense thank you. TBH it’s the exception the office have of you to do the long hours combined with the fairly long commute I have that has made me consider tramping. I prefer long hours if im commuting out anyway but it’s hard to strike a balance, 10-12 hours no prob, 12-15 hours no thank you. At the place im at being available for 12 or so hours can effectively mean a 14hr day by time you get back which is fine if sleeping and eating in the cab, not so much with a long commute home and they like to tell drivers you must be avail for 12 hours but they’ll happily send you home early if it suits them (Agency hourly paid work). They’ve also got 2 different rates of pay for the exact same job so some are significantly better compensated for their hours than others.
I know I wouldn’t stick at a job where they bounce your starts around as if you don’t have a body clock. I can’t fall asleep at the drop of a hat. The good thing about the day work is I can stay fairly consistent and if needs be turn down a start time if offered but the commute just seems a waste. I’ve known of people to sleep in camper vans outside work and it just makes you think why not go out tramping and at least get night out money.
Can office staff technically do a 24hr shift? If so I wish I knew that when I was getting the “you can legally take 9 hrs off between shifts” from previous work places!
Don’t let somebody who has 16 hours off between shifts dictate to you that you should take 9 hours off between yours
Trust me mate…
If whoever is barking orders at you falls asleep at his desk, they’ll still get home to the wife and kids
RC88:
Can office staff technically do a 24hr shift? If so I wish I knew that when I was getting the “you can legally take 9 hrs off between shifts” from previous work places!
Well.yeah of course they could if they wanted, there are no legal restrictions afaik…apart maybe from wtd which is all a facade/■■■■■■■■ anyway.
Too many drivers just ■■■■ up all that type of crap, basically letting their firm ram it up their arses when they feel like it, with zero resistance.
(Standing up for your own safety and welfare does not make you arsey or some kind of militant…as long as you have a fair case and present it politely…if that does not work,.then become an arse. )
Then they complain to everybody else except those that they should be complaining to…as drivers do.
As for 9 hour reduced rests,.I’ve never let anybody tell me if and when I should take them, I’ve never understood the ridiculous concept of the longer you work, the less rest you can have…AND 3x in a row ffs. ,.where is the correlation between that and road safety??
I myself found myself on days due to circumstances only last week on another driver’s motor, my stipulation before they said anything was…
Minimum 11 hours off.
No 15 hour days.
Taking a 9 off between day shifts equates to as little as up to (or down to) 5 hours kip (or REAL rest,) when you take into account 2 way commute, .shower, evening meal,.and unwind.
■■■■ that for a game of soldiers, anybody who agrees to it is an idiot imo, and there should be legislation against it to protect them from their own stupidity.
I would love to know what is classed as “tramping” these days,I classed it as out on Sun / Mon and got back by Fri / Sat with a possible night at home if you was passing through.
lolipop:
I would love to know what is classed as “tramping” these days,I classed it as out on Sun / Mon and got back by Fri / Sat with a possible night at home if you was passing through.
We (I) had an argument* about this on another thread a while ago.
It seems the consensus now is that “tramping” is doing nights out. When I started it was being away all week, and travelling on routes not directly to/fro base.
*Unbelievable, I know.
Franglais:
lolipop:
I would love to know what is classed as “tramping” these days,I classed it as out on Sun / Mon and got back by Fri / Sat with a possible night at home if you was passing through.We (I) had an argument* about this on another thread a while ago.
It seems the consensus now is that “tramping” is doing nights out. When I started it was being away all week, and travelling on routes not directly to/fro base.*Unbelievable, I know.
As Lolipop says,.away working all week and a lot of times away at weekends, was classed as ‘proper tramping’.
I did actually enjoy it once, left alone to my own devices and initiative without having to be told when to wipe your arse every 5 mins, as some drivers need to be told nowadays.
3 nights a week are what I do now,.and that is enough.
robroy:
Franglais:
lolipop:
I would love to know what is classed as “tramping” these days,I classed it as out on Sun / Mon and got back by Fri / Sat with a possible night at home if you was passing through.We (I) had an argument* about this on another thread a while ago.
It seems the consensus now is that “tramping” is doing nights out. When I started it was being away all week, and travelling on routes not directly to/fro base.*Unbelievable, I know.
As Lolipop says,.away working all week and a lot of times away at weekends, was classed as ‘proper tramping’.
I did actually enjoy it once, left alone to my own devices and initiative without having to be told when to wipe your arse every 5 mins, as some drivers need to be told nowadays.
3 nights a week are what I do now,.and that is enough.
Pull in the yard for fuel and perhaps draw some money and off again, same info on the traffic board all week return xxxxxxx
Anytime after midnight on a Monday for us, but then the rest of the week is down to the driver, as long as the delivery times are met, same with parking which is paid for if needed, as long as it is safe or unless it is a particular customer, then they have to park where they say, but that`s about it.
We ask them what their availability is for the week by text on a Monday, and then work it so they get back on the day they specify, all via text so there are no misunderstandings later in the week 
And, if they are back in the yard during the week, its a bonus, but never guaranteed, purely on the basis of the work we do, everyone knows the score & we have plenty of long termers, so something is right, along with the money
Depends on the job. For example I started 7.20 this morning, did a 7hr shift but will be starting 2am tomorrow and if all goes to plan will be a 12hr shift
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At the moment, I start my first day at about 07.30ish. Get truck ready, aim to leave no later than 08.30. rest of the week, depends on when I park up. Could start as early as 05.30, or as late as 10.00.
Most importantly,it’s my call where, and when to park up.
the nodding donkey:
At the moment, I start my first day at about 07.30ish. Get truck ready, aim to leave no later than 08.30. rest of the week, depends on when I park up. Could start as early as 05.30, or as late as 10.00.Most importantly,it’s my call where, and when to park up.
So say if you arrive at a collection around 17:00, it should have been ready but now for whatever reason it’s not going to be ready until tomorrow, night shift are in so it’ll be ready some time after midnight. You technically could be good to go around 2-3am after 9hrs rest. In this scenario do you stick to your regular start times and start no earlier than 05:30 or is it ‘expected’ that you get going as soon as legally possible, needs of the business and all that.
(I know what a dispatch office expect and what is reasonable can often be two separate things but I’m just trying to get an idea of what the norm is)
^^^^^
Can’t speak for ND, but way I see it is if his firm are happy with the way he is doing his job that’s fine.
In 2023 who tf in their right mind wants to start at 2/3 am when they can work a civilised shift.
If people want to have that sort of endurance type work life for whatever bizzare reason, let them crack on, or if they agree to terms in an interview because of nature of job… same.
You should not be just EXPECTED to get your arse out of bed half way through the ■■■■ night, it’s 2023 not 1973.
Don’t get me wrong I’ve done it loads of times myself in the past and then some, but after a lifetime in this job I now see it for what it really is,.and I have more ■■■■ sense these days.
Similar to my comment on my previous post…A place I worked for many years ago used to pay you double time on a Sunday to run down to your drop, but a couple of f/wits decided to start at 1/2 am instead on a Mon , thus totally ■■■■ ing it up for everyone else (as these type of ■■■■ s in this job usually do 
)
My son in law works there now and he tells me all Sun running has stopped, and they all leave at stupid o clock in a morning now…as instructed.
On the whole the recognised start times in many non multi shift work industries are 7 or 8 am, …now I know that ain’t going to happen here, but at least you should be incentivised to start anytime before then, decreasing every hour.
You will still always get the co. arse crawlers trying to make a name for themselves (usually starting with the letter ‘C’ ) trying to impress the boss,.so I reckon nothing will change, so in the meantine I’ll just continue looking after numero uno, and making the job as easy and as bearable as I can for myself with my 6am starts.