Spacemonkeypg:
However it’s confusing as to how it is that you think the wall in question was actually covered by such type of barriers .
I have provided you with the correct tunnel on google take a trip through it. In addition i stated.
- There should be barriers around the wall, implying fault on the engineers of the tunnel. When those of us who have driven in CH will know they do have barriers.
I’ve been driving in Switzerland most Summers over the last 35 years or so since I started driving.I actually used the road here in question only last Spring on a run down to Monza using the Simplon.Although admittedly I didn’t take a lot of notice of the nearside walls at the time but certainly don’t remember any barriers inside the tunnel covering any of the walls facing oncoming traffic (probably not surprising bearing in mind that in my experience I just take it for granted that tunnel walls are in line all the way through with recesses built in for access points/refuges) which seems to be confirmed looking at the photos of the wreck and most other Swiss tunnels.
maps.google.com/?ieUT8&ll=46.431 … 4,0,13.66
if the driver was changing a DVD then what was his co-driver doing .When we do double man coach jobs the driver is never distracted the co-driver looks after the passengers all very strange
RIP those poor wee children and adults involved
Carryfast:
Spacemonkeypg:
However it’s confusing as to how it is that you think the wall in question was actually covered by such type of barriers .
I have provided you with the correct tunnel on google take a trip through it. In addition i stated.
- There should be barriers around the wall, implying fault on the engineers of the tunnel. When those of us who have driven in CH will know they do have barriers.
I’ve been driving in Switzerland most Summers over the last 35 years or so since I started driving.I actually used the road here in question only last Spring on a run down to Monza using the Simplon.Although admittedly I didn’t take a lot of notice of the nearside walls at the time but certainly don’t remember any barriers inside the tunnel covering any of the walls facing oncoming traffic (probably not surprising bearing in mind that in my experience I just take it for granted that tunnel walls are in line all the way through with recesses built in for access points/refuges) which seems to be confirmed looking at the photos of the wreck and most other Swiss tunnels.
maps.google.com/?ieUT8&ll=46.431 … 4,0,13.66
With a man of 35 years experience driving over the Simplon and through such tunnels one would expect you not to continue to link irrelevant fire exits and the wrong tunnel TWICE. 
I give up and leave you to your morbid entertainment. It was only a matter of time until you posted your experience in this matter along with every other part of this forum on every post since you joined. I believe you have already been referred to as “The Nob” on one post in which you post you vast experience and drivel!
On a BBC news acticle the reporter drove through the opposite tunnel to show an example of the emergency refuge recess and indeed there was a barrier, a pathetic single piece of armco angled at 45 degrees to the flow of traffic 
maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Sierre, … ,8.75&z=15
Big Joe:
On a BBC news acticle the reporter drove through the opposite tunnel to show an example of the emergency refuge recess and indeed there was a barrier, a pathetic single piece of armco angled at 45 degrees to the flow of traffic
maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Sierre, … ,8.75&z=15
i can’t see that being an issue, every tunnel has a similar layout.
but i still stand by my misting up theory, and of course that’s all it is, a theory.
limeyphil:
Big Joe:
On a BBC news acticle the reporter drove through the opposite tunnel to show an example of the emergency refuge recess and indeed there was a barrier, a pathetic single piece of armco angled at 45 degrees to the flow of traffic
maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Sierre, … ,8.75&z=15
i can’t see that being an issue, every tunnel has a similar layout.
but i still stand by my misting up theory, and of course that’s all it is, a theory.
The issue is a single piece of armco is of no use to deflect anything bigger than a small car away from a solid wall that sits at 90 degress to the flow of traffic on a road with a 60mph speed limit, misted up windows or not.
a min before Crash was a teacher giving a CD or DVD to the Driver.said the teacher
The Children said to Nurse Driver was handling on DVD Player around
Bus company said. Co-Driver shall do DVD Player operating,and Children cant see the DVD player to judge if Driver handled on them or not
Anywhy.A sad day,a sad Situation,just as it happens from Time to Time when you leave on the Roads
Spacemonkeypg:
Carryfast:
Spacemonkeypg:
However it’s confusing as to how it is that you think the wall in question was actually covered by such type of barriers .
I have provided you with the correct tunnel on google take a trip through it. In addition i stated.
- There should be barriers around the wall, implying fault on the engineers of the tunnel. When those of us who have driven in CH will know they do have barriers.
I’ve been driving in Switzerland most Summers over the last 35 years or so since I started driving.I actually used the road here in question only last Spring on a run down to Monza using the Simplon.Although admittedly I didn’t take a lot of notice of the nearside walls at the time but certainly don’t remember any barriers inside the tunnel covering any of the walls facing oncoming traffic (probably not surprising bearing in mind that in my experience I just take it for granted that tunnel walls are in line all the way through with recesses built in for access points/refuges) which seems to be confirmed looking at the photos of the wreck and most other Swiss tunnels.
maps.google.com/?ieUT8&ll=46.431 … 4,0,13.66
With a man of 35 years experience driving over the Simplon and through such tunnels one would expect you not to continue to link irrelevant fire exits and the wrong tunnel TWICE.
I give up and leave you to your morbid entertainment. It was only a matter of time until you posted your experience in this matter along with every other part of this forum on every post since you joined. I believe you have already been referred to as “The Nob” on one post in which you post you vast experience and drivel!
Experience if that’s how you want to describe it although I’d have just put it as having seen enough tunnel designs to know that the type of design that resulted in this is unusual to the point of not even having taken any notice of it having used the tunnel in question probably on the basis of discount of what I’d seen.Until that is having the seen the photos of the results of something being unfortunate enough to have run into it.
Not surprisingly you seem to have complained about me posting ‘wrong’ tunnels and wrong access/refuge points probably because they show the inconvenient truth that proves my argument and just shows that yours is just total bs.Probably the same type of bs as relied on by the tunnel designers who came up with such an idea in this case. 
Big Joe:
On a BBC news acticle the reporter drove through the opposite tunnel to show an example of the emergency refuge recess and indeed there was a barrier, a pathetic single piece of armco angled at 45 degrees to the flow of traffic
maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Sierre, … ,8.75&z=15
I think that says everything. 
Straight from the spacemonkey school of tunnel design.
Not surprisingly you seem to have complained about me posting ‘wrong’ tunnels and wrong access/refuge points probably because they show the inconvenient truth that proves my argument and just shows that yours is just total bs.Probably the same type of bs as relied on by the tunnel designers who came up with such an idea in this case.
I pointed out you posted the incorrect tunnels and the incorrect fire exit and not an emergency refuge to point. This was to show your complete idiocy.
When those of us who have driven in CH will know they do have barriers.
Then Big Joe has kindly posted a link maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Sierre, … ,8.75&z=15 showing a barrier. What’s more is he has posted the link to the correct tunnel.
When it comes to inconvenient truth, your own sick trolling in a thread containing such a subject just quantifies that you are a complete and utter ■■■■■.
I have driven through dozens and dozens of Swiss tunnels, and Italian, French and German ones and never even noticed the construction of the refuges, safety barriers or whether they would withstand a coach or a lorry crashing into them. The difference is I have driven through them in a lorry and not a private car, so I was probably concentrating more on the oncoming traffic or the traffic I was following at a safe distance.
We don’t know what happened, if it was a DVD or not, we may never know, but the driver was certainly distracted by something, maybe by a teacher leaning over his seat, maybe by trying to prevent him doing so.
I don’t normally travel by bus or coach but the ones I have had a notice saying something like;
“Please do not stand forward of this notice or please do not speak to the driver except in an emergency.”
This is an absolutely tragic event and will touch the lives of many people for years to come, the authorities may never get to the bottom of the cause, neither will we, however long we argue and try for high point scoring posts.
Wheel Nut:
I have driven through dozens and dozens of Swiss tunnels, and Italian, French and German ones and never even noticed the construction of the refuges, safety barriers or whether they would withstand a coach or a lorry crashing into them. The difference is I have driven through them in a lorry and not a private car, so I was probably concentrating more on the oncoming traffic or the traffic I was following at a safe distance.
This is an absolutely tragic event and will touch the lives of many people for years to come, the authorities may never get to the bottom of the cause, neither will we, however long we argue and try for high point scoring posts.
I think that’s more or less what I’ve said myself concerning the tunnel in question having said that I’ve just taken it for granted that the designers wouldn’t be stupid enough to cancel out all the work that goes into (trying to) minimise such an event (of something running head on into a concrete wall facing at 90 degrees to oncoming traffic as in this case) in other cases such as those other examples which I’ve posted.
The requirement of concentrating as a driver,on what’s going in front of you,isn’t any different regardless of wether you’re driving a car down to Italy or a truck on night trunk up to Yorkshire.
Just like myself and Big Joe’s comments the authorities ‘could’ get to the bottom,of what caused the devastating ‘results’ of the vehicle’s loss of control in this case,just by obvious deduction of what happens when something travelling in a forward direction at around 50 mph comes into head on contact with a concrete wall facing at 90 degrees in it’s path and why the type of accepted,common,engineering practices used in most other cases to minimise the risks of that didn’t exist in the case of this wall.
You’re right it’s tragic but the severity of it was caused by unbelievable,catastrophic,engineering design stupidity.
Spacemonkeypg:
Not surprisingly you seem to have complained about me posting ‘wrong’ tunnels and wrong access/refuge points probably because they show the inconvenient truth that proves my argument and just shows that yours is just total bs.Probably the same type of bs as relied on by the tunnel designers who came up with such an idea in this case.
I pointed out you posted the incorrect tunnels and the incorrect fire exit and not an emergency refuge to point. This was to show your complete idiocy.
When those of us who have driven in CH will know they do have barriers.
Then Big Joe has kindly posted a link maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Sierre, … ,8.75&z=15 showing a barrier. What’s more is he has posted the link to the correct tunnel.
When it comes to inconvenient truth, your own sick trolling in a thread containing such a subject just quantifies that you are a complete and utter ■■■■■.
I think Big joe actually made exactly the same point as myself concerning the zb’d up design of the tunnel in this case and your idea of a so called ‘barrier’ obviously doesn’t agree with either his or mine considering that I’ve posted what it takes to do the same job,of stopping something from running into a concrete wall facing at 90 degrees to the traffic flow,reasonably properly at a tunnel entrance.If your idea was good enough here in this case then the same idea would have been good enough there.
The only complete and utter zb’s in this case are those that think like you and the designers in question who came up with the idea of that concrete wall and it’s non existent protection from being hit head on by something as in this case.
The only complete and utter zb’s in this case are those that think like you and the designers in question who came up with the idea of that concrete wall and it’s non existent protection from being hit head on by something as in this case
Nope sorry, you have lost me when did i say the design was offering appropriate protection?
Sometimes bad things happen for no apparent reason, nobody is at fault, it’s just the way it is, like planes falling out of the sky, ships sinking, coaches, cars, motorbikes, trains and lorries crashing, then there are natural disasters like tsunamis, hurricanes, tornadoes, drought and famine, it’s a big bad world sometimes 
There are a million things that could be viewed in the same way as that right angle wall in the tunnel, but on the whole they’re safe, for instance how many vehicles have travelled through that tunnel without hitting that wall 
A sad situation for everyone involved, my thoughts are with them all
Spacemonkeypg:
The only complete and utter zb’s in this case are those that think like you and the designers in question who came up with the idea of that concrete wall and it’s non existent protection from being hit head on by something as in this case
Nope sorry, you have lost me when did i say the design was offering appropriate protection?
Think it’s you that’s been arguing that black is white by saying the wall is guarded when I’ve been saying that it effectively isn’t depending on your definition of what forms a proper 'barrier to do the job just as shown by those fitted to (try to) minimise the possiblity of exactly the same thing happening at a tunnel entrance. 
However it doesn’t take a genius to realise that in this case such type of barriers were not practical which just leaves the question and issue of who’s idea was it to make a 90 degree wall facing the flow of traffic instead of chamfering it at a shallow angle.
newmercman:
Sometimes bad things happen for no apparent reason, nobody is at fault, it’s just the way it is, like planes falling out of the sky, ships sinking, coaches, cars, motorbikes, trains and lorries crashing, then there are natural disasters like tsunamis, hurricanes, tornadoes, drought and famine, it’s a big bad world sometimes
There are a million things that could be viewed in the same way as that right angle wall in the tunnel, but on the whole they’re safe, for instance how many vehicles have travelled through that tunnel without hitting that wall
A sad situation for everyone involved, my thoughts are with them all
Absolutely agree nmm.BUT.In this case there’s absolutely no point in cancelling out all the engineering design work that’s gone into (trying to) minimise this type of thing in other places,including along this route,when someone then just forgets all about it just once,at which point,as any engineer knows,it’s the weakest link that always lets you down.
Another reason why I wouldnt drive a coach/bus, blame always lies on you when something goes wrong.
RIP to the 2 drivers, teachers and kids.
On Radio 2 vine show yeasterday it was said a survivor mentioned someone putting a DVD into the layer just prior to the crash. People on here have suggested passengers weren’t wearing seatbelts, how do we know which if either is correct. A simple seat belt light on each seat or above the passengers head would show if seat belts are worn & an on board camera of some sort similar to a forward facing camera would show whether it was driver error or a passenger doing something at the wrong time.
Whatever caused this tragic loss of life nothing’s going to ease the pain for the families who lost an adult or child in this crash. What they’re going through & how this must have effected the emergency services is unthinkable. My condolences go to all of them.
BB
Carryfast:
Spacemonkeypg:
The only complete and utter zb’s in this case are those that think like you and the designers in question who came up with the idea of that concrete wall and it’s non existent protection from being hit head on by something as in this case
Nope sorry, you have lost me when did i say the design was offering appropriate protection?
Think it’s you that’s been arguing that black is white by saying the wall is guarded when I’ve been saying that it effectively isn’t depending on your definition of what forms a proper 'barrier to do the job just as shown by those fitted to (try to) minimise the possiblity of exactly the same thing happening at a tunnel entrance.
However it doesn’t take a genius to realise that in this case such type of barriers were not practical which just leaves the question and issue of who’s idea was it to make a 90 degree wall facing the flow of traffic instead of chamfering it at a shallow angle.
Ok so now we have you in reverse i stated, once again i feel the need to repeat to you
When those of us who have driven in CH will know they do have barriers.
Nothing to do with arguing
it’s you that’s been arguing black is white by saying the wall is guarded
because that is not the case i stated again for your ignorance
When those of us who have driven in CH will know they do have barriers.
And finally the
the inconvenient truth
that you posted, When it comes to your wrong examples, using your knowledge of the area and the many times you have been there, you decided to post the completely WRONG tunnel 
not once but twice Then attempted to back up your trolling by posting the WRONG pictures in fact posting fire exits and not a refuge lane which has been pointed out to you.
Again you are a sick and twisted individual that feels the need to troll a thread containing such a tragic subject, in order to puff you chest out with continued drivel.