Tragic Swiss Coach Crash

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
121

newmercman:
Sometimes bad things happen for no apparent reason, nobody is at fault, it’s just the way it is, like planes falling out of the sky, ships sinking, coaches, cars, motorbikes, trains and lorries crashing,

I think there is almost always a reason for these things happening, although normally it’s a series of events that leads to a tragic outcome. And if one of those events leading up to the accident didn’t happen then it’s unlikely there would have been a tragedy on this scale. Like if the coach had lost control a few yard further into the tunnel it might have missed the wall.

newmercman:
then there are natural disasters like tsunamis, hurricanes, tornadoes, drought and famine, it’s a big bad world sometimes :cry:

True these events are out of our control, but quite often the events are made worse by the intervention of people. Maybe they decide to build in a area they know is at risk of some natural disaster, because they can make money or they scrimp on building earthquake resistant buildings because its easier and cheaper to bung a local official a few quid to look the other way than build the building properly. Or people are forced to an area that cannot support them by war and conflict.

newmercman:
There are a million things that could be viewed in the same way as that right angle wall in the tunnel, but on the whole they’re safe, for instance how many vehicles have travelled through that tunnel without hitting that wall :question:

A sad situation for everyone involved, my thoughts are with them all :cry:

To be honest though I do really agree with what you are saying, bad things do happen.
I heard the normal

“all coach drivers are dangerous”

and

“its the most dangerous way to travel”

from some at work this week, I don’t bother saying anything as there is no point talking with people who have knee jerk views like this.

The accident must be investigated properly and lesson learned, but Since the Ski season started how many children throughout Europe have been on a coach trip to the Alps and come back safe and sound?

The worst thing is the knee jerk reactions you get from ill informed people and the mass media. It forces those in power to introduce stupid laws that don’t reduce the risks, but just cause more expense and red tape.

122

muckles:

newmercman:
Sometimes bad things happen for no apparent reason, nobody is at fault, it’s just the way it is, like planes falling out of the sky, ships sinking, coaches, cars, motorbikes, trains and lorries crashing,

I think there is almost always a reason for these things happening, although normally it’s a series of events that leads to a tragic outcome. And if one of those events leading up to the accident didn’t happen then it’s unlikely there would have been a tragedy on this scale. Like if the coach had lost control a few yard further into the tunnel it might have missed the wall.

newmercman:
then there are natural disasters like tsunamis, hurricanes, tornadoes, drought and famine, it’s a big bad world sometimes :cry:

True these events are out of our control, but quite often the events are made worse by the intervention of people. Maybe they decide to build in a area they know is at risk of some natural disaster, because they can make money or they scrimp on building earthquake resistant buildings because its easier and cheaper to bung a local official a few quid to look the other way than build the building properly. Or people are forced to an area that cannot support them by war and conflict.

newmercman:
There are a million things that could be viewed in the same way as that right angle wall in the tunnel, but on the whole they’re safe, for instance how many vehicles have travelled through that tunnel without hitting that wall :question:

A sad situation for everyone involved, my thoughts are with them all :cry:

To be honest though I do really agree with what you are saying, bad things do happen.
I heard the normal

“all coach drivers are dangerous”

and

“its the most dangerous way to travel”

from some at work this week, I don’t bother saying anything as there is no point talking with people who have knee jerk views like this.

The accident must be investigated properly and lesson learned, but Since the Ski season started how many children throughout Europe have been on a coach trip to the Alps and come back safe and sound?

The worst thing is the knee jerk reactions you get from ill informed people and the mass media. It forces those in power to introduce stupid laws that don’t reduce the risks, but just cause more expense and red tape.

Here here

123

Spacemonkeypg:

Carryfast:

Spacemonkeypg:

The only complete and utter zb’s in this case are those that think like you and the designers in question who came up with the idea of that concrete wall and it’s non existent protection from being hit head on by something as in this case

Nope sorry, you have lost me when did i say the design was offering appropriate protection?

Think it’s you that’s been arguing that black is white by saying the wall is guarded when I’ve been saying that it effectively isn’t depending on your definition of what forms a proper 'barrier to do the job just as shown by those fitted to (try to) minimise the possiblity of exactly the same thing happening at a tunnel entrance. :bulb:

However it doesn’t take a genius to realise that in this case such type of barriers were not practical which just leaves the question and issue of who’s idea was it to make a 90 degree wall facing the flow of traffic instead of chamfering it at a shallow angle. :unamused:

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

Ok so now we have you in reverse i stated, once again i feel the need to repeat to you :exclamation:

When those of us who have driven in CH will know they do have barriers.

Nothing to do with arguing

it’s you that’s been arguing black is white by saying the wall is guarded

because that is not the case i stated again for your ignorance

When those of us who have driven in CH will know they do have barriers.

And finally the

the inconvenient truth

that you posted, When it comes to your wrong examples, using your knowledge of the area and the many times you have been there, you decided to post the completely WRONG tunnel :blush: not once but twice :exclamation: :exclamation: Then attempted to back up your trolling by posting the WRONG pictures in fact posting fire exits :exclamation: :exclamation: and not a refuge lane which has been pointed out to you.

Again you are a sick and twisted individual that feels the need to troll a thread containing such a tragic subject, in order to puff you chest out with continued drivel.

That’s exactly the type of logic that those useless zb’s who came up with the idea of putting a unprotected concrete wall at the side of a tunnel facing at 90 degrees to the oncoming traffic and if someone like me had (tried to) point out the stupidity of doing that there when just up the road (in those different examples such as tunnel entrances etc and many other different types of similar situations etc) they do everything possible to minimise the possibilities of the same thing happening.

The fact is it doesn’t matter that they were different tunnels and different places that I posted the fact is that the risk is a known one and there’s no point in minimising it in some places and not in others.If that makes me guilty of so called trolling in your zb’d up logic and way of thinking then tough.I think I know who’s side of the argument any sensible sane person would be on and that includes the Swiss.

However it seems a bit ‘strange’ as to why you think that I’m guilty of so called ‘trolling’ when you haven’t made the same suggestion concerning Big Joe’s obvious agreement with my comments right from the start of the topic :question: . :confused:

thelocal.ch/2848/20120315/

124

muckles:

newmercman:
Sometimes bad things happen for no apparent reason, nobody is at fault, it’s just the way it is, like planes falling out of the sky, ships sinking, coaches, cars, motorbikes, trains and lorries crashing,

I think there is almost always a reason for these things happening, although normally it’s a series of events that leads to a tragic outcome. And if one of those events leading up to the accident didn’t happen then it’s unlikely there would have been a tragedy on this scale. Like if the coach had lost control a few yard further into the tunnel it might have missed the wall.

newmercman:
then there are natural disasters like tsunamis, hurricanes, tornadoes, drought and famine, it’s a big bad world sometimes :cry:

True these events are out of our control, but quite often the events are made worse by the intervention of people. Maybe they decide to build in a area they know is at risk of some natural disaster, because they can make money or they scrimp on building earthquake resistant buildings because its easier and cheaper to bung a local official a few quid to look the other way than build the building properly. Or people are forced to an area that cannot support them by war and conflict.

newmercman:
There are a million things that could be viewed in the same way as that right angle wall in the tunnel, but on the whole they’re safe, for instance how many vehicles have travelled through that tunnel without hitting that wall :question:

A sad situation for everyone involved, my thoughts are with them all :cry:

To be honest though I do really agree with what you are saying, bad things do happen.
I heard the normal

“all coach drivers are dangerous”

and

“its the most dangerous way to travel”

from some at work this week, I don’t bother saying anything as there is no point talking with people who have knee jerk views like this.

The accident must be investigated properly and lesson learned, but Since the Ski season started how many children throughout Europe have been on a coach trip to the Alps and come back safe and sound?

The worst thing is the knee jerk reactions you get from ill informed people and the mass media. It forces those in power to introduce stupid laws that don’t reduce the risks, but just cause more expense and red tape.

There’s nothing ‘knee jerk’ about the obvious reasons as to what caused the severity of this accident.

125

And so it continues

However it seems a bit ‘strange’ as to why you think that I’m guilty of so called ‘trolling’ when you haven’t made the same suggestion concerning Big Joe’s obvious agreement with my comments right from the start of the topic .

Sorry you have lost me there, again i don’t see that agreement. But what i do see is said poster to state that

Looks like a monumental failure of road planners by not putting barriers to divert out of control vehicles away from a head on collision with the wall

followed by this

On a BBC news acticle the reporter drove through the opposite tunnel to show an example of the emergency refuge recess and indeed there was a barrier, a pathetic single piece of armco angled at 45 degrees to the flow of traffic

You have taken it upon yourself to start twisting and turning your remarks to encourage attention.

I’m ending this attempted conversation with you now as your are obviously logically retarded

126

Spacemonkeypg:
You have taken it upon yourself to start twisting and turning your remarks to encourage attention.

I’m ending this attempted conversation with you now as your are obviously logically retarded

Ooohh, She does that quite often :wink:

127

Spacemonkeypg:
And so it continues

However it seems a bit ‘strange’ as to why you think that I’m guilty of so called ‘trolling’ when you haven’t made the same suggestion concerning Big Joe’s obvious agreement with my comments right from the start of the topic .

Sorry you have lost me there, again i don’t see that agreement. But what i do see is said poster to state that

Looks like a monumental failure of road planners by not putting barriers to divert out of control vehicles away from a head on collision with the wall

followed by this

On a BBC news acticle the reporter drove through the opposite tunnel to show an example of the emergency refuge recess and indeed there was a barrier, a pathetic single piece of armco angled at 45 degrees to the flow of traffic

You have taken it upon yourself to start twisting and turning your remarks to encourage attention.

I’m ending this attempted conversation with you now as your are obviously logically retarded

It seems obvious who’s logically retarded considering that you’re the one who’s unable to understand all the connections between Big joe’s comments,then my posts regarding what it takes to actually stand a chance of ‘diverting’ out of control vehicles such as at the tunnel entrance which I showed and which pose exactly the same risk of a concrete wall facing at 90 degrees to oncoming traffic.

However it sems obvious,in this case,that it would be difficult,if not impossible,to put in such a type of barrier which would adequately do the job.

So picture the scene at the design stage.Someone like me says to the designers we need to protect that concrete wall from exactly this type of scenario by doing exactly as we would do at a tunnel entrance such as the example which I posted.However in this case that probably won’t be possible.In that case we’ll need to chamfer the wall at a shallow angle from the side of the tunnel.That’s when some useless zb with your type of logic says no let’s just leave it as it is and we’ll just put a small piece of barrier in front of the wall.The results are there in those photos posted by Big Joe at the start of the topic. :unamused:

Who’s calling who a zb ■■■■■■ now. :imp:

128

Wheel Nut:

Spacemonkeypg:
You have taken it upon yourself to start twisting and turning your remarks to encourage attention.

I’m ending this attempted conversation with you now as your are obviously logically retarded

Ooohh, She does that quite often :wink:

:unamused: :confused:

I don’t think that I’ve posted anything that isn’t totally consistent with this.The question is why all the unwarranted bs directed at my posts compared to tachograph’s or Big Joe’s :question: . :confused:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=82691&start=30#p1128336

129

Carryfast:
I don’t think that I’ve posted anything that isn’t totally consistent with this.The question is why all the unwarranted bs directed at my posts compared to tachograph’s or Big Joe’s :question: . :confused:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=82691&start=30#p1128336

Consistent is probably the best word to describe you, whatever anyone thinks about your posts, they never waiver from their original point, why people have a go at you, can’t say for sure, but you are entertaining once you go off on one, maybe they’re tormenting you :laughing: