I’ve been working for a trade plate company for over a month now, and during my week’s training I was reliably informed that we were perfectly okay to run out of scope, as we weren’t carrying loads, moving to and from rental companies, dealerships, repair facilities, bodybuilders, auction yards etc.
Earlier this week an email went out from the office saying that a customer had complained that we weren’t moving his vehicles with our cards in, and that we were now to use them. Main issue straight away is that we’re all remote workers so downloading our cards is a problem unless we’re all issued with a machine, the office is in Warrington and I’m pretty sure they couldn’t have us all run through there once a week to download.
I’ve been through Google backwards and cannot seem to find a definitive answer, so I’m throwing it out to you guys to see if anyone can enlighten me.
Maybe you are or aren`t exempt from tacho rules. It depends on exactly what you are doing.
See Quackers link above.
Being on trade plates does not automatically mean you are exempt.
If you do need to run tachos, then your employer has up to 28days to days to download your card. It is the employers responsibility to arrange this, but the driver must make the card available for download.
If you do need to run tachos, then your employer has up to 28days to days to download your card. It is the employers responsibility to arrange this, but the driver must make the card available for download.
Very true. I worked for a cowboy recovery outfit for two years and every Monday I waved my card in front of them so they could download it and not once did they do so. Not my problem, I’d fulfilled my legal obligations.
As for tacho use it was always the case that delivering new or used vehicles was tacho exempt (if this is what the o/p is doing) however if the day has got a Y in it I’m sure that the goalposts have been moved since then.
definition of out of scope that isnt covered by vehicle exemptions…
Out of Scope Working Rules
Out of scope driving is driving that takes place on roads which are not the public highway. All driving done out of scope does not count towards your driving time and instead counts as other work.
Note – If you drive for any amount of time on a public highway, then all driving you for the remainder of that day will count as driving, even if it is off road.
Tommy Trade Plates:
moving to and from rental companies, dealerships, repair facilities, bodybuilders, auction yards etc.
If any of those vehicles have already been in service, (I bet the ones going between different branches of rental outlets, and going to auction have) then maybe they are not exempt.
As mentioned, only some of the uses mentioned would be out of scope, pretty much, if they have a tacho fitted then you’d be more likely to be in scope than not.
What does your employer do so that they are eligible to have trade plates? Sounds like they are an agency shuffling veh for a multitude of clients …… not sure they all qualify toe be on TP let alone tacho exemption
What happened when you asked your employer how to get the cards downloaded?
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Even trade plate work on cars still effectively means working to domestic regs.The definition is driving anything for commercial, as opposed to private, purposes.Nothing to do with trade plates.
While trade plates only mean untaxed/unregistered vehicles.
I sometimes do runs involving the need for trade plates in one direction outward or return only depending on the registration and/or VED status of the vehicle.
Acorn:
What happened when you asked your employer how to get the cards downloaded?
Still waiting for an answer on that one
Logically if it’s on trade plates it’s not yet on any O licence nor can be referenced same.The driver is under domestic regs just like car trade plate or even non trade plate delivery/collection work.
Acorn:
What happened when you asked your employer how to get the cards downloaded?
Still waiting for an answer on that one
Logically if it’s on trade plates it’s not yet on any O licence nor can be referenced same.The driver is under domestic regs just like car trade plate or even non trade plate delivery/collection work.
There’s seemingly numerous,varied types of operations under dom regs.A job moving medical clinics for one that slipped through my fingers…(company i was ‘courting’ bought out and new regime not willing to let me commute ONCE a week to their Upper Heyford depot from pompy) and there’s a private snow-gritting job i’m toying with having a stab at before hopefully entering the trade plate domain asap.The plating game wouldn’t be viable it seems if governed by tacho laws.? Eveything l guess would have to be on low loaders ?
Franglais:
Exemptions include:
“and new or rebuilt vehicles which have not yet been put into service” gov.uk/guidance/drivers-hou … erogations#exemptions-and-derogations
Tommy Trade Plates:
moving to and from rental companies, dealerships, repair facilities, bodybuilders, auction yards etc.
If any of those vehicles have already been in service, (I bet the ones going between different branches of rental outlets, and going to auction have) then maybe they are not exempt.
As far as tacho goes, this is the correct answer (IMHO). There’s only very few tacho exemptions which are able to be used, this is the main one (there might be others but I doubt it). Also regarding the trade plate itself, it only covers unregistered/untaxed movement, so on a lot of the vehicles you don’t even need it (because it has tax - for example lease returns are typically taxed). A lot of the lads put them on anyway, especially if no insurance was showing on MID, so that it saves being stopped then showing you have insurance.
And yes, with your being a “driver”, the driving of cars, travelling to-from on public transport, getting lifts should be counted as “other work” on the WTD (even though the tight ■■■■■■■■ don’t pay that). But with the nature of the work, being in ~10 vehicles/week, its a very complex web to unravel if someone did take an interest in the hours. About half of the drivers kept a manual log of their hours, most of which was a bit…“Enid Blyton”…let’s say.
msgyorkie:
If you are asked to use your card then use your card!
The problem of how to download the card is not yours to worry over.
Yes. True.
But also, use your card if the law says you should. I
If the OP isn`t using his card when he should, then he is at fault.
If a company tells a driver to run over hours, and he does then they both get done. Same with not using a card. A company saying “Nah
mate. No need to worry about that stuff” isn`t much use.
Some employers are ignorant of the law. Some deliberately try to twist the rules.
Shocking but true!!!
Acorn:
What happened when you asked your employer how to get the cards downloaded?
Still waiting for an answer on that one
Logically if it’s on trade plates it’s not yet on any O licence nor can be referenced same.The driver is under domestic regs just like car trade plate or even non trade plate delivery/collection work.
There’s seemingly numerous,varied types of operations under dom regs.A job moving medical clinics for one that slipped through my fingers…(company i was ‘courting’ bought out and new regime not willing to let me commute ONCE a week to their Upper Heyford depot from pompy) and there’s a private snow-gritting job i’m toying with having a stab at before hopefully entering the trade plate domain asap.The plating game wouldn’t be viable it seems if governed by tacho laws.? Eveything l guess would have to be on low loaders ?
Where do you get the idea of any massive dangerous gulf between EU v Domestic or even the quasi Domestic regs applying to all supposedly ‘out of scope’ operations.
Any driver driving for commercial purposes is effectively governed by similar laws to EU driving regs in terms of rest and driving time.
It’s no big deal and we don’t have trade plate drivers.crashing into ditches on a daily basis for lack of rest.
In fact probably way more rest than any truck driver maxing out the EU regs regime.
Acorn:
What happened when you asked your employer how to get the cards downloaded?
Still waiting for an answer on that one
Logically if it’s on trade plates it’s not yet on any O licence nor can be referenced same.The driver is under domestic regs just like car trade plate or even non trade plate delivery/collection work.
Agree they may not come under operator licence, but that does make a tacho exemption. Of the TP and the OP circs, about the only one that would be outside tacho would be pre-plated new vehicles, not sure where the tacho exemption for a veh presumably over 7.5t I’ve would apply to the others. And of vourse TP only apply to an untaxed veh, so shuffling a taxed veh fir hire companies would not normally ve a SORN so not be a TP journey.
id make sure theyre insuring you .So many dodgey and not so dodgey wallahs expect you sort your own insurance ,hiding behind “i told him so” if ever theres an incident
Acorn:
Agree they may not come under operator licence, but that does make a tacho exemption. Of the TP and the OP circs, about the only one that would be outside tacho would be pre-plated new vehicles, not sure where the tacho exemption for a veh presumably over 7.5t I’ve would apply to the others. And of vourse TP only apply to an untaxed veh, so shuffling a taxed veh fir hire companies would not normally ve a SORN so not be a TP journey.
Is that a typo? Shouldn`t that be “does not make an exemption”?
Acorn:
Agree they may not come under operator licence, but that does make a tacho exemption. Of the TP and the OP circs, about the only one that would be outside tacho would be pre-plated new vehicles, not sure where the tacho exemption for a veh presumably over 7.5t I’ve would apply to the others. And of vourse TP only apply to an untaxed veh, so shuffling a taxed veh fir hire companies would not normally ve a SORN so not be a TP journey.
Is that a typo? Shouldn`t that be “does not make an exemption”?
Going by the respective weight thresholds ( 3.5 t ) it seems clear that tacho and O licencing go together.Theres no way of administrating a tacho regime without a responsible transport manager compliant with O licence rules .Theres also no way of entering an untaxed/unregistered vehicle on an O licence or any need to.Id be surprised if truck trade plate work was much different to cars in regard to hours regime.Even with car work I generally work well within the EU driving time and breaks and rest regime and ultimately can be cross referenced against wage timesheets bearing in mind no one works for nothing.
and there’s a private snow-gritting job i’m toying with having a stab at before hopefully entering the trade plate domain asap.The plating game wouldn’t be viable it seems if governed by tacho laws.? Eveything l guess would have to be on low loaders ?