Hi all, read on here recently that it is possible to drive a tractor unit with the fifth wheel removed on a car licence and as a lifelong enthusiast (I’m not in the trade) I was wondering if anyone knew of any ‘old school’ or ‘veteran’ trucks that would qualify at this weight preferably sleeper cab units. I was thinking about a scania 82, 93, fingers crossed but probably too heavy yet my fav a Volvo f10, failing that an ok’d merc sk maybe? I would love to do a replica of one of my favourite operators. Any info would be great, thanks for Reading.
Hi mate,
I’ve copied your post into our Safety and Law forum, because it has two distinct strands.
“Old school” and “veteran” followers are to be found right here, but you’ll also get good answers in the other forum on the issues of weights and driving licence etc.
The copied post is here: CLICK Tractor units approx 7.5t ? - SAFETY, LAW AND WORKING TIME DIRECTIVE FORUM (INTE - Trucknet UK dd.
Pretty much any unit of the 80’s or 90’s in 4x2 guise will be ok, unless you plan on carrying 3000 litres of fuel around with you. The unit needs to be downplated though.
harryvr6:
Hi all, read on here recently that it is possible to drive a tractor unit with the fifth wheel removed on a car licence and as a lifelong enthusiast (I’m not in the trade) I was wondering if anyone knew of any ‘old school’ or ‘veteran’ trucks that would qualify at this weight preferably sleeper cab units. I was thinking about a scania 82, 93, fingers crossed but probably too heavy yet my fav a Volvo f10, failing that an ok’d merc sk maybe? I would love to do a replica of one of my favourite operators. Any info would be great, thanks for Reading.
It’s not a question of removing the fifth wheel and that’s not necessary.
You can drive a unit with a car license if you can find one that weighs no more than 3.5 tonnes.
If you passed your driving test before 1st January 1997 you will probably have cat C1 on the license in which case you can drive vehicles up-to 7.5 tonnes.
As you are enquiring about what you can drive on a car license presumably you don’t have cat C1 ?
Hi,passed my car test in 93, so anything 7.5t is ok I presume, I don’t have any info about tractor weights, really interested as to what falls within this weight though.
Pretty much any unit of the 80’s or 90’s in 4x2 guise will be ok, unless you plan on carrying 3000 litres of fuel around with you. The unit needs to be downplated though.
Thanks very much for that! I’m quite surprised and pleased with that info! Time to start hunting around! My mate owns Evans recovery in Manchester so may ask him to help, thanks again everyone. Harry
So, basically if you’ve got a C1 category entitlement on your car licence, you can downplate a tractor unit to 7.5 tons and drive it solo & without modification (so long as it actually weighs 7.5 tons or less) - is that correct? I’m presuming it’ll then qualify for PLG excise duty too?
Sounds a little more simplistic than I originally thought. If thats right, it sounds good.
marky:
So, basically if you’ve got a C1 category entitlement on your car licence, you can downplate a tractor unit to 7.5 tons and drive it solo & without modification (so long as it actually weighs 7.5 tons or less) - is that correct? I’m presuming it’ll then qualify for PLG excise duty too?
Sounds a little more simplistic than I originally thought. If thats right, it sounds good.
you are right you can drive a unit up to 7.5 tons 0n a car licence with a fifth wheel fitted, if you have a grandad licence like me, and somebody correct me
if i,m wrong but i believe if the unit was first reg before jan 1960 you can pull a trailer unloaded and not used for business , thats how i read it on the vosa
website regards stoney
The most vital part appears to be the plated weight of the vehicle. if you have C1 on your licence and the plated weight is 7.5 tons or under, it seems to me you can drive it.
Casting my mind back, a Super B series ERF with a Gardner engine could tare-off at around 5.5 tons, so there’s plenty of scope there for other tractors - even some 6x2s I should think.
marky:
The most vital part appears to be the plated weight of the vehicle.
Exactly - it’s not a question of what it actually weighs, but what is its plated gross vehicle weight. T’would be an interesting exercise to try to persuade VOSA to downplate a B Series to 7.5T gross vehicle weight! And then what on earth would its gross combination weight be??
marky:
The most vital part appears to be the plated weight of the vehicle.
Exactly - it’s not a question of what it actually weighs, but what is its plated gross vehicle weight. T’would be an interesting exercise to try to persuade VOSA to downplate a B Series to 7.5T gross vehicle weight! And then what on earth would its gross combination weight be??
Exactly right 240G. I have never known VOSA down plate say a 38 tonne unit to 7.5 tonnes. If you ask VOSA they will say it is just not possible. To down plate a 24 tonne rigid to just a few tonnes lower weight requires type approved mechanical modifications to be made to the vehicle. I have known of Load sensing valve adjustments, spring leaf removal - even some of the propshaft bolts to be removed in some cases. Can you imagine what work they would require done to down plate a 38T tractor unit by that margin?.
If the vehicle is plated at over 7.5T you cannot drive it on a car licence irrespective of its kerb weight. You can however drive a tractor unit without a trailer with an LGV Cat C licence. You only need the C+E when you couple up the trailer and head for the highway.
A rigid or articulated large goods vehicle built before Jan 1960 and weighing over 7.5T can be driven on a car licence, but only if used unladen and NOT for hire or reward. These vehicles are exempt from plating and testing, hence the ability to drive them on a car licence.
Beware of using ‘grey area’ Showman’s (Special Vehicle) exemptions for plating & testing too. If you have a rigid truck or tractor unit built after Jan 1960 it MUST be plated and TESTED, even if you only use it to travel to shows and vintage rallies. Showmen’s vehicles have an exemption from P&T that applies if they are carrying on a main business as a travelling amusement caterer AND the vehicle is permanently modified in respect of this business. I have known of at least one accident involving a preserved commercial vehicle claiming this exemption. The owner could not prove he carried out a Showman’s business (showing an old vehicle is not good enough), the vehicle was not permanently modified (it was a standard tractor unit) and both the Police and VOSA successfully prosecuted the vehicle keeper with several offences. The correct procedure is to plate and test the vehicle in the usual way, insure it with a classic vehicle policy and tax it (if built after Dec 1972) as a ‘Private HGV’.
If the vehicle is plated at over 7.5T you cannot drive it on a car licence irrespective of its kerb weight. You can however drive a tractor unit without a trailer with an LGV Cat C licence. You only need the C+E when you couple up the trailer and head for the highway.
STAY LEGAL — it matters when it all goes wrong……
[/quote]
Hi there,
Starting to loose the way a little with this, and not being in the industry makes it a tad tricky.
I have never taken a LGV/HGV test, but passed my car driving test Sept '1996. My licence states “C1” & C1E".
A) Can I therefore drive a tractor unit (either upto 7.5t, or beyond) on this alone?
B)If so, would it need to be modified mechanically, or registered/plated in any way?
PS,that last statement of yours - so, so true, very wise words.
Starting to loose the way a little with this, and not being in the industry makes it a tad tricky.
I have never taken a LGV/HGV test, but passed my car driving test Sept '1996. My licence states “C1” & C1E".
A) Can I therefore drive a tractor unit (either upto 7.5t, or beyond) on this alone?
B)If so, would it need to be modified mechanically, or registered/plated in any way?
A C1 and C1E prevents you from driving a tractor unit unless it is a mini artic
Starting to loose the way a little with this, and not being in the industry makes it a tad tricky.
I have never taken a LGV/HGV test, but passed my car driving test Sept '1996. My licence states “C1” & C1E".
A) Can I therefore drive a tractor unit (either upto 7.5t, or beyond) on this alone?
B)If so, would it need to be modified mechanically, or registered/plated in any way?
As the other chaps have said, your C1 licence allows you to drive a vehicle with a maximum gross weight of up to 7.5T: forget what it actually weighs at any given moment. Hence, as Wheel Nut says, a mini-artic unit is as big as it gets!
It will have to be plated in any case, unless it is a pre-1960 vehicle, again as discussed above.
Ok so as it stands the answer to my original post is ‘no’ as it is unlikely the unit will get down plated to 7.5t. What is a’ mini tractor unit’ ? It was an ambition of mine to own a classic unit one day perhaps it will remain a dream of mine as I don’t think I’ll get round to having lessons in the near future. Maybe I could just keep one in my garden!! Thanks all for Reading.
Starting to loose the way a little with this, and not being in the industry makes it a tad tricky.
I have never taken a LGV/HGV test, but passed my car driving test Sept '1996. My licence states “C1” & C1E".
A) Can I therefore drive a tractor unit (either upto 7.5t, or beyond) on this alone?
B)If so, would it need to be modified mechanically, or registered/plated in any way?
A C1 and C1E prevents you from driving a tractor unit unless it is a mini artic
Thats odd, I got pulled in november in a transit and trailer,by Vosa at Preston, I’d just left clithero with a machine on the trailer weighing 2300 kg, so with the trailer about 3000kg, nothing on the front at all, they put me over the bridge and said it was fine, the trailer and load weighed about a ton more than the ■■■■■■.
Dieseldogsix:
Thats odd, I got pulled in november in a transit and trailer,by Vosa at Preston, I’d just left clithero with a machine on the trailer weighing 2300 kg, so with the trailer about 3000kg, nothing on the front at all, they put me over the bridge and said it was fine, the trailer and load weighed about a ton more than the ■■■■■■.
I’m not sure what the confusion is here. VOSA were quite right. A Transit van or pickup is not an articulated tractor unit, mini or otherwise. For towing purposes it is classed in the same category as say a heavy car, like a Range Rover. Depending on the vehicle spec you can pull an unbraked trailer weighing upto 750kg, an overrun braked trailer upto 3500kg and a trailer with powered brakes (eg air - and yes you can get a kit for Land Rovers) upto 4000kg.
From a well known website…“85% (or even 100%) rules are not “rules” but guidelines which have no substance in law. They are designed to ensure that the outfit will be stable (all other factors being equal). Exceeding this figure, whilst not illegal in itself, COULD lead to prosecution if the driver was stopped because of (say) instability or after an accident as there is a requirement on the driver to ensure the safety of his vehicle in the Construction and Use Regulations.”
harryvr6:
Ok so as it stands the answer to my original post is ‘no’ as it is unlikely the unit will get down plated to 7.5t. What is a’ mini tractor unit’ ? It was an ambition of mine to own a classic unit one day perhaps it will remain a dream of mine as I don’t think I’ll get round to having lessons in the near future. Maybe I could just keep one in my garden!! Thanks all for Reading.
A Mini Tractor Unit is an articulated outfit based around a Transit or Land Rover type vehicle fitted with a mini fifth wheel coupling drawing a matched trailer.
If you want to own or drive a ‘proper’ tractor unit the money spent on Cat C lessons and test would be very well spent. It is expensive these days, but it is excellent driver training and would give you a good grounding for handling a large vehicle, but don’t forget you can drive a pre 1960 unit on your current licence if you fancy somthing older!.
Thanks for the reply, what vehicles would be pre 60 then please? Im not sure about this era, shame it doesn’t stretch to the 70’s eh, is there anything ‘big’ from the 60’s at all? Shame there’s no test for driving just the unit and no trailer, that’s where I’d have the mither I think ! Thanks again harry
Thanks for the reply, what vehicles would be pre 60 then please? Im not sure about this era, shame it doesn’t stretch to the 70’s eh, is there anything ‘big’ from the 60’s at all? Shame there’s no test for driving just the unit and no trailer, that’s where I’d have the mither I think ! Thanks again harry
Tractor units approx 7.5t ? - SAFETY, LAW AND WORKING TIME DIRECTIVE FORUM (INTE - Trucknet UK dd. 
